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View Full Version : Do we really want to become like them?


orangikan
09-14-2005, 12:20 PM
Recent posts re diversity and tolerance prompt me to offer the following information. I have culled greatly from the articles. Basically the Middle East discriminates and subjugates against Christians as well as Jews. Tolerance and diversity does not exist in much of the ME. Anti Semitism in the ME is not news, and has obvious progenitors, but here are some facts:
http://www.jimena.org/ http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iraqijews.html
In 1948, nearly 900,000 Jews—indigenous to the Middle East and North Africa—lived in what are now known as the “Arab States.” Today, 99% of these ancient Jewish communities no longer exist in the lands where we lived for thousands of years. IRAQ: 1948 Jewish population: 150,000
2003: Approximately 100.
Christian persecution http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/christians.html
b. Persecution of ethno-religious groups, the Mideast Christians in particular, is conducted by legal governments (Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Sudan) or by organizations (National Islamic Front in Sudan, Front Islamique de Salut, the Hizbollah of Lebanon, etc.)
• a) Religious persecution of individuals (human rights abuse): This persecution is conducted against individuals because of their religious affiliation. In Saudi Arabia and Iran, for examples, individuals are punished for displaying crosses, jailed for praying in public, and in some cases punished by death, for not complying with the religious tenants. In these countries, as well as in Egypt and Sudan, converts to Christianity are sentenced to death.
In Egypt, the large Coptic nation is systematically discriminated against on the constitutional, political, administrative, and cultural levels. Para-military fundamentalist groups are conducting pogroms against the Christians, which includes burning Churches and assassinating civilians.
A non-Muslim cannot give evidence in court. Any legal agreement between a Muslim and an "infidel" is only binding on the "unbeliever." Job opportunities are restricted: Muslim companies which are owned by oil-rich governments do not hire Christians. It is difficult for a Christian to establish his own business and even then he may be forced to hire Muslims instead of Copts or face destruction of his livelihood.
• Newly constructed apartments are rented only to Muslims. Christians who convert to Islam will be immediately granted an apartment, a lump sum of money and a job. Christians are everywhere harassed in a psychological struggle to force them to apostatize. Christians are not allowed to build new churches or repair old ones. Some who have attempted to convert other buildings to church use have been murdered or had their homes burned. No action is taken against the Muslims responsible. There is a Supreme Court ruling that a Moslem who apostatizes is legally dead. He loses all rights and powers. Any person who kills him does not commit murder from a legal point of view because he is already legally dead. The "dead" person cannot marry or inherit. More than one hundred and fifty Muslims who have adopted Christianity have been detained in maximum-security prisons. They have been accused of threatening national unity.

KillZone
09-14-2005, 01:02 PM
Although I am not an Islamic scholar, I have studied Islam for years.

In my opinion, countries that are predominately Muslim discriminate against almost all non-Muslims. Often, the discrimination is egregious (death). However, when Muslims are in the minority, they proclaim tolerance and peace. Please remember that this is only my opinion.

hadit
09-14-2005, 01:07 PM
Although I am not an Islamic scholar, I have studied Islam for years.

In my opinion, countries that are predominately Muslim discriminate against almost all non-Muslims. Often, the discrimination is egregious (death). However, when Muslims are in the minority, they proclaim tolerance and peace. Please remember that this is only my opinion.

Compare the differences in attitude between Israel and Muslim nations. Muslims are allowed to live in Israel. Jews are evicted from Muslim nations.

GROFF200
09-14-2005, 02:24 PM
I think the examples provided make it exceedingly clear that we in the USA should be fighting to keep separation of church and state, rather than fighting for prayer in schools.
Religion + politics = discrimination

Ras Bizarre High
09-14-2005, 02:28 PM
Incidentally, Saddam Hussein's vice-president was a Christian.

I wonder if Iraq's next vice-mullah will one?

KillZone
09-14-2005, 07:48 PM
Incidentally, Saddam Hussein's vice-president was a Christian.

I wonder if Iraq's next vice-mullah will one?

I did not know this, Ras. Did he also have a “bounty” on his head? Do you know what happened to him or what his name is (or was)? And whatever happened to that guy people called Baghdad Bob?

Ras, in one of your posts you alluded to something that I wish you had expanded upon, for I have said it from Day 1: In my opinion, “republic” (law) based on “the democratic process” as we know it is an utter impossibility in Iraq.

Perhaps the topic has been beaten to death, but I never saw it discussed much. However, I am still a "newbie," so I may have just missed it.

Ras Bizarre High
09-14-2005, 08:27 PM
Excuse me, I was mistaken. It wasn't his vice-president, it was Hussein's deputy Prime Minister (same thing? I'm not sure) Tariq Aziz who was a Christian.

At any rate, I don't think it really matters whether Iraq becomes a democratic republic or not. To me the whole emphasis on that rather abstract matter is bizarre. Here in America over half the eligible population doesn't even bother to vote. Are we going to bomb ourselves for not being democratic enough?

In the case of the Iraq war terms like "democracy", "freedom" and "liberty" have been some of the biggest casualties. They've been eviscerated of all meaning and become a cynical joke when people think of the reality of what's really happened. I think that's sad.

Really, when politicians talk about "freedom" in Iraq they mean a puppet government who will let American industries operate there freely and nothing more. But a lot of us knew that before the war even began, unfortunately.

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