Google
 

View Full Version : Right back to 1969


SpabSFW
09-07-2005, 04:05 PM
I haven't posted to this, but I have been keeping up with it. N.I. has been exploding in almost continuous riots and there are increasing attacks against Catholics in increasing severity since the IRA agreed to stand down.

Here's a piece from the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,1563265,00.html

In a corner of Antrim another generation grows up on a diet of sectarian hatred

Catholics forced to flee as teenagers are used to mount campaign of arson

It began late one night when Kathleen McCaughey's front door was kicked down by two men who stormed up the stairs shouting: "Taigs out."
"Aren't you going to call me an Orange bastard?" asked one of the men when Mrs McCaughey, 51, who has epilepsy, came out of her bedroom in her dressing gown.

After five months of attacks including petrol and paint bombs and a poster campaign calling her a republican scrounger, she was given a few hours to clear her house and leave the village of Ahoghill in Ian Paisley's North Antrim constituency.

Protestant children had been paid £5 each to sit on her front lawn banging drums until she caved in. If she did not go, she was told, her row of houses would be burned down.

The town of Ballymena and its surrounding villages are in the grip of the worst wave of anti-Catholic sectarian attacks for years and the police have been forced to adopt the same tactics as the UN uses in Kosovo: guarding Catholic churches, schools and Gaelic sports clubs at night to stop them being torched.

Northern Ireland is slipping into the kind of civil strife where people cannot tolerate the presence of their neighbours, and it is being demonstrated at primary schools. Two Catholic schools in the area were burned in arson attacks within 24 hours last week. The head of Northern Ireland's community relations council has said the police patrols are unsustainable, adding that many people would soon start to feel they could only live in Ballymena with UN-style protection.

Ballymena is the buckle in Northern Ireland's Bible belt, the seat of the Paisley family and a place that has been likened to 1960s Mississippi. It is rural, conservative, mainly born-again Christian and predominantly Protestant. Catholics make up about 25% of the borough.

Ballymena's most famous Catholic son, the actor Liam Neeson, has recalled having to shelter inside during Orange parades in his youth.

But Mr Paisley, leader of the biggest unionist party in Northern Ireland, was criticised for not condemning the anti-Catholic attacks soon enough and doing little to engage with his community to stop them.

Mr Paisley, who has always talked about his unbiased dedication to the Catholics in his constituency, was accused of moral cowardice and a lack of leadership. He returned from holiday and condemned the attacks last week but complained that, in the past, attacks on his church headquarters in Belfast had not been condemned by Sinn Féin.

Mark Durkan, the SDLP's leader, accused loyalist paramilitaries from the Ulster Defence Association of orchestrating sectarian violence in north Antrim.

Police said it was more complex than a coordinated campaign against Catholics, adding that teenagers and young boys had been involved. A 13-year-old boy has been charged with arson following last week's attack on St Louis' primary school which destroyed one classroom and damaged 10 others. A 15-year-old is also being questioned. Police have recorded 28 significant attacks against Catholics, including two attempted murders, and 14 attacks against Protestants.

In Ahoghill, a village of about 1,000 people where most of the attacks on Catholics took place, red, white and blue flags fly on the grey estates.

...

Fewer than a dozen Catholic families remain and for-sale signs have gone up outside Catholic homes.

Many have sent word via their Protestant neighbours to their tormentors on the estate that they are considering leaving.

Just as in other villages nearby, where police have been protecting 50 Catholic properties, sectarianism has reached the level where bigots are unafraid to state their views but those opposed to them are afraid to speak out.

...

In the nearby, predominantly Protestant, suburb of Harryville, the Catholic church has been repeatedly paint bombed and daubed with slogans such as "**** the Pope" over the summer.

A group of local Protestants have helped clean the mess at the church, which was picketed regularly by loyalists over 18 months during the Drumcree dispute of the 1990s.

St Mary's Catholic primary school in Harryville reopened last week after five petrol bombs were thrown into the canteen and library causing £1,000 worth of damage.

A report by the Institute for Conflict Research shows that following the Good Friday Agreement in 1997, sectarian violence has increased, with more attacks on churches, Gaelic sports clubs and Orange halls than before the ceasefires of 1994.

There have been sectarian attacks on both side of the divide in north and east Belfast throughout the summer.

Dennis Bradley, the former Catholic priest who brokered the first ceasefire and is now a member of the policing board, said police alone could not solve the problem of the sectarian attacks, which he blamed on the "nihilism of 14-, 15-, 16-year-olds" and "20- and 30-year-olds who are quite sectarian in the sense that they cannot live with their neighbours".

Other research recently has shown that children as young as five or six are displaying bigoted ideas.

A generation is growing up more segregated and sectarian than its parents.

How the attacks began

March

Campaign of intimidation against Catholic families in village of Ahoghill begins. Police investigating a firework attack on a Catholic home are pelted with bricks and stones.

July

Two Catholic churches in Ballymena area are paint-bombed and daubed with sectarian graffiti, in the first of a series of church attacks over the summer. Two Catholic-owned pubs attacked, another bar is petrol-bombed. After petrol and paint bombs and arson threats, Catholic families in Ahoghill begin leaving their homes. One woman is forced on to her roof after the ground floor of her home set alight in arson attack.

August

In an unprecedented move, police issue fire blankets to Catholic homes in Ahoghill and tell residents how to jump out of windows in case of sectarian arson attacks.

September

After two arson attacks in 24 hours on Catholic primary schools in the Ballymena area, police begin night-time guard of Catholic schools, churches and properties in local villages. Police say they have recorded 28 significant sectarian attacks on Catholics and 14 on Protestants since March 1.

SpabSFW
09-07-2005, 04:09 PM
This is from today:

http://www.u.tv/newsroom/indepth.asp?pt=n&id=64328

Loyalist rioters attack police again

Police came under renewed attack from loyalist petrol bombers in Northern Ireland early today.

Trouble flared again in north Belfast following several hours of uneasy peace after rioters took to the streets yesterday following searches linked to a paramilitary show of strength.

Petrol bombs, bricks, bottles and other missiles were hurled at officers in the Woodvale area. The Police Service responded with water cannon...

SpabSFW
09-07-2005, 04:19 PM
Here's just some of it from the last month:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4746987.stm
""The serious outbreak of violent disorder is attributable to loyalist paramilitaries," he said.


Police in riot gear went to the scene

"I would appeal to those community representatives to exercise whatever influence they have over the people in the area, to ensure that this serious disorder is brought to a peaceful conclusion as soon as possible."

A "significant number" of petrol bombs, paint, bricks and stones were thrown at police, he said."


http://www.u.tv/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=64746&pt=n
The random sectarian murder of Catholic 15 yr old Thomas Devlin.



http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/Irelandclick/arts2005/aug26_both_sides_of_the_interface.php
Rioting in Short Strand:
"...The loyalist mob that congregated in Cluan Place on Saturday night, apparently inspired by that afternoon's Old Firm victory for Rangers, launched an orgy of violence, taking aim at the nationalist homes just yards from where they were gathered. ..."




http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=7417-qqqx=1.asp
Sectarian riots threaten peace

28 August 2005 By Colm Heatley
As the marching season draws to a close in the North, a series of riots and sectarian attacks in Belfast's most volatile interface areas have threatened to destabilise a fragile peace between local communities.

In the Ardoyne, nationalist and loyalist youths have rioted every night since last Sunday.

Petrol bombs and bricks are thrown during the riots, which were brought under control after community workers intervened.

The clashes follow a series of paint bomb and petrol bomb attacks on Catholic homes on the Ardoyne Road, and the Cliftondene area of north Belfast.

KillZone
09-07-2005, 04:33 PM
That is sad. For me, it would be chaotic living in constant fear. I take my safe abode for granted, which I should not do.

SpabSFW
09-07-2005, 04:56 PM
It's probably about time for entire Catholic communities to take up the slack where they have previously assigned (and publicly snubbed) defenders of Catholic neighborhoods.

What N.I. doesn't need:

The loyalist police force.
The British military.
British intelligence.

What N.I. does need:

A non-sectarian police force instead of a loyalist political entity masquerading as one and a Catholic population with some balls to stand up for demanding one en masse instead of delegating the responsibility for pushing the authorities into it to a selected and shunned few.

lilnymph
09-08-2005, 02:15 AM
What it needs is for the catholic political parties to get involved in the organisations, instead of gaining political points by decrying how loyalist they all are. in Sinn fein actually got involved in the police commission years ago when they where asked too, this situation could have been avoided.

Hugs

lilnymph

SpabSFW
09-08-2005, 02:19 AM
Doubtful.

I do think it would be good if the issues regarding policing could be dealt with and I would love to see Sinn Fein on the police board.

lilnymph
09-08-2005, 06:32 AM
Me Too. People in northern ireland need to start working together to solve the problems there. It isn't something EITHER side can do on their own. Unfortunatly at the moment both sides would rather score points and point the finger at the other, than actually sort out the problems.

Hugs

lilnymph

IFF
09-09-2005, 04:27 AM
But Mr Paisley, leader of the biggest unionist party in Northern Ireland, was criticised for not condemning the anti-Catholic attacks soon enough and doing little to engage with his community to stop them.


actually Mr. Paisley criticised the attacks on the catholic community a day before Sinn Fein criticised him for not criticising the attacks on the catholic community

i do agree he should have spoken out earlier like when something happens, not a week later

It's probably about time for entire Catholic communities to take up the slack where they have previously assigned (and publicly snubbed) defenders of Catholic neighborhoods.

What N.I. doesn't need:

The loyalist police force.
The British military.
British intelligence.


i bewlieve the PSNI have made very good strides in becoming a corss community police force. that isn't something that can happen overnight.

now if a certain political party would join tthe policing board, then that would helpfurther but they would rather criticise the policing board then work to reform it

Me Too. People in northern ireland need to start working together to solve the problems there. It isn't something EITHER side can do on their own. Unfortunatly at the moment both sides would rather score points and point the finger at the other, than actually sort out the problems.

Hugs

lilnymph

the only of the big 4 parties that i see that are working on policies that aren't sectarian, policies that other political parties in other lands have been using for over 100 hundread years are the SDLP but what happens when the SDLP had press conferences last year on education, health etc etc etc. no press journalists would turn up because majority of northern ireland don't care about important issues. all they care about is feudalism and tribalism.

infact i would say that only three recognised political parties do not espouse sectarianism in anyway, the Greens (which is an all ireland party actually contrary to claims of a certain political party who say they are the only All-ireland political party), SDLP and the Alliance Party.

of course my beliefs here would be very biased. when it comes to northern ireland, i am an SDLP supporter and when it is about Ireland, i am a green party supporter

lilnymph
09-09-2005, 03:08 PM
I know what you mean IFF. Sad isn't it.

Hugs

lilnymph

SpabSFW
09-09-2005, 03:14 PM
If Sinn Fein were to join the police board, the necessary improvements they are holding out for will never happen, just like if the IRA hadn't gone to war, Catholics wouldn't even have a fair vote now in the North, much less other civil rights improvements.

I trust Adams to know exactly what it takes when dealing with the powers that be to instill necessary and positive change. I'm sure when he is satisfied that the PSNI has policies in place to be an impartial and effective police force Sinn Fein will join.

lilnymph
09-09-2005, 03:18 PM
LOL, The IRA where never about getting a fair vote spabs, just like they never cared for the catholic population. If they did why didn't they try to stop the secterian violence against them, why did it take the British army to do that?

If Sinn Fein joined there would be a stronger catholic presence on the police board, and as much as I dislike sinn fein, that can only be a good thing.

Hugs

lilnymph

SpabSFW
09-09-2005, 03:23 PM
There is nothing to say when you don't get that the Provisional IRA was born specifically to protect Catholic neighborhoods in a situation that is much like the one which inspired this article.

Where are your comments about the consistent and escalating attacks on Catholics by Protestants, the ethnic cleaning by Protestants of entire neighborhoods and the seeming incompetence or unwillingness of the PSNI to do anything about it (other than handing out fire blankets to Catholic families for those ritual pipe-bombings to their homes by loyal Protestant citizens?

oki
09-09-2005, 07:56 PM
I guess some people dont want the IRA to quit the armed resistance. some are much happier with an ondragging conflict. (= money)
its sad, really. the longer a conflict lasts, the better they get at sabotaging all peace efforts.

IFF
09-10-2005, 06:27 AM
just like if the IRA hadn't gone to war, Catholics wouldn't even have a fair vote now in the North, much less other civil rights improvements.


i disagree here. even some political collumnists (Vincent Browne)in ireland that do come off as very sympathethic to Sinn Fein disagree with this statement

LOL, The IRA where never about getting a fair vote spabs, just like they never cared for the catholic population. If they did why didn't they try to stop the secterian violence against them,

statistic alert: 75% of victims of the PIRA were Catholics

also in the 1970's, graffiti done in catholic areas was IRA: I ran away

There is nothing to say when you don't get that the Provisional IRA was born specifically to protect Catholic neighborhoods in a situation that is much like the one which inspired this article.

Where are your comments about the consistent and escalating attacks on Catholics by Protestants, the ethnic cleaning by Protestants of entire neighborhoods and the seeming incompetence or unwillingness of the PSNI to do anything about it (other than handing out fire blankets to Catholic families for those ritual pipe-bombings to their homes by loyal Protestant citizens?

what northern ireland is cross community action. the good people of northern ireland (whatever their beliefs) don't want people to be throwing the blame at others. they want people to shoulder their responsibility for whats happened. they want people to be honest and now just plying the blame good

this goes also for the good people in the UK and Ireland. they don't want to see people keep plasying the blame game and not accepting theirn own responsibility for what has happened

SpabSFW
09-10-2005, 03:02 PM
Ya and if that mean old terrorist Michael Collins and his IRB/IRA hadn't kept fighting those sweetie lovely Brits, they would have given them the Free State/Republic so much earlier! It was just those nasty fighting Irish who kept delaying it. :mad:

lilnymph
09-10-2005, 04:14 PM
Spabs, the Ireland problem was a product of its times. If Ireland had been 3 times bigger, and England 3 times smaller, you would be supporting the brave english in their fight for freedom from the evil irish at this moment. Its unfortunate but there it is. And yes, the IRA are terrorists. they killed murdered and terrorised thousands of people, and did nothing to help the catholic community in northern ireland. I know yoiu have some strange opinion that I am an english loyalist, so please listen to IFF.

Spabs, I know you mean well, but you simply don't have the knowledge about northern ireland, since you refuse to believe anything but the biased pro IRA propaganda. My family and friends grew up through all this.

Hugs

lilnymph

godsangel
09-28-2005, 09:23 PM
evil irish ?
i'll repeat what the cop shop told me
i can't believe you said that

does this mean you are anti-irish or anti-ira ?

lilnymph
09-29-2005, 12:16 PM
It means the problems are problems of their times (when they started). If Ireland had been bigger than England, england would have been taken over and treated like ireland was treated. That is what my comment meant. It had nothing to do with the present situation, apart from its historical background.

And for the record I am Anti-Ira, never Anti - Irish.

hugs

lilnymph

godsangel
09-29-2005, 02:32 PM
lilnymph posted it means the problems are problems of their times and for the record i am anti-ira, never anti-irish. hugsthank you lilnymph i am white albino irish
also
i said bad about blacks before because i was raised to be anti-black yet now i am starting to come around

Google