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wolfuncle
07-16-2005, 02:06 AM
http://www.marketingtheworld.com/bush/bush-jobs-for-china-sm.jpg

Since George W. Bush took office it is estimated that the United States has "lost" 2,800,000 manufacturing jobs. http://www.aflcio.org/issuespolitics/manufacturing/

Where could these jobs have possibly dissappeared to? To a country that exploits its workers of all ages 2.8 million factory jobs have been lost since Bush took office in 2001. http://www.aflcio.org/issuespolitics/globaleconomy/ns03162004.cfm

The manipulated unemployment rate in the US is around 5.5 percent. The only reason that figure is used is because the long-term jobless rate in the US is the worst it has been for 20 years. Many people have either dropped out of the labor market or have never even entered it. Count those people, and the real jobless rate is 7.4 percent.

But no need to worry, the George W Bush Golden Arches job plan has your well being in mind.

wolfuncle
07-17-2005, 12:37 PM
Free Trade good for the economy?

$72,498,700,000 trade deficit with China so far this year.
$161,938,000,000 trade deficit with China 2004.
$124,068,200,000 trade deficit with China 2003.
$103,064,900,000 trade deficit with China 2002.
$83,096,100,000 trade deficit with China 2001.
$83,833,000,000 trade deficit with China 2000.
$68,677,100,000 trade deficit with China 1999.
$697,176,000,000 trade deficit with China since 1999.


http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html

Since 1999 the US has run a trade deficit with China totaling $697 billion. This in a "free trade" agreement that allows China to block a number of US products while less than loyal so called US corporations close manufacturing plants in the US and set up operations where a Communist government exploits its workers and pollutes with few limits.

China is now the number two producer of co2 emissions in the world and if the greedy US corporations that continue to abandon the country that made them wealthy in the first place continue to support the Communists, China will soon be the number one polluter in the world, aided by the almost criminal activity of greedy US corporate interests.

Of course we know that all this wealth we are creating for the Communists is being used to help the people of that country and not to build the largest military in the world.

ironwest
07-18-2005, 02:27 PM
[IMG]The only reason that figure is used is because the long-term jobless rate in the US is the worst it has been for 20 years. Many people have either dropped out of the labor market or have never even entered it. Count those people, and the real jobless rate is 7.4 percent.
If you do not even look for job, you likely feel you are better off that way. Do not blam goverment for that.

h2g2Fan
07-18-2005, 02:32 PM
Taiwan

wolfuncle
07-18-2005, 02:37 PM
If you do not even look for job, you likely feel you are better off that way. Do not blam goverment for that.
We are the government, I blame us.

ironwest
07-18-2005, 02:39 PM
Free Trade good for the economy?
Since 1999 the US has run a trade deficit with China totaling $697 billion.
What is the problem? 140 million people saved money and have spend savings on better things.


This in a "free trade" agreement that allows China to block a number of US products.
Do you have a suggestion other than stop trade (thus losing even more exports)?

while less than loyal so called US corporations close manufacturing plants in the US and set up operations where a Communist government exploits its workers and pollutes with few limits. China is now the number two producer of co2 emissions in the world
Compare to other communist countries, China did a great job feeding it's people. Pollution has no meaning when one is starving.

and if the greedy US corporations that continue to abandon the country that made them wealthy in the first place continue to support the Communists, China will soon be the number one polluter in the world, aided by the almost criminal activity of greedy US corporate interests.
.
It is essential for US companies to stay alive.

Of course we know that all this wealth we are creating for the Communists is being used to help the people of that country and not to build the largest military in the world.
It won't happen for some time (10 year?).

wolfuncle
07-19-2005, 01:58 AM
What is the problem? 140 million people saved money and have spend savings on better things.
Yes great use slave labor to make cheap products; they would have loved you in the US before 1860.


Do you have a suggestion other than stop trade (thus losing even more exports)? So by your definition, trading with anyone for anything is good business. When do you start your child porn business?


Compare to other communist countries, China did a great job feeding it's people. Pollution has no meaning when one is starving.I agree China has done incredible things under communism, but in a country that large only a brutal dictatorship, with no freedom could have done it. What will happen to China if they ever let Democracy in? So your position that the only two alternatives are poison air and water or food? Shallow thinking, you have to be a republican.


It is essential for US companies to stay alive.US companies were not failing, in China where they pay factory workers 40 cents an hour there are many profits to be made, basically from slavery but apparently you support people in chains.


It won't happen for some time (10 year?).

$72,498,700,000 trade deficit with China so far this year.
$161,938,000,000 trade deficit with China 2004.
$124,068,200,000 trade deficit with China 2003.
$103,064,900,000 trade deficit with China 2002.
$83,096,100,000 trade deficit with China 2001.
$83,833,000,000 trade deficit with China 2000.
$68,677,100,000 trade deficit with China 1999.
$697,176,000,000 trade deficit with China since 1999.


http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html

Since 1999 the US has run a trade deficit with China totaling $697 billion. This in a "free trade" agreement that allows China to block a number of US products while less than loyal so called US corporations close manufacturing plants in the US and set up operations where a Communist government exploits its workers and pollutes with few limits.

China is now the number two producer of co2 emissions in the world and if the greedy US corporations that continue to abandon the country that made them wealthy in the first place continue to support the Communists, China will soon be the number one polluter in the world, aided by the almost criminal activity of greedy US corporate interests.

Of course we know that all this wealth we are creating for the Communists is being used to help the people of that country and not to build the largest military in the world.


China is building its military forces faster than U.S. intelligence and military analysts expected, prompting fears that Beijing will attack Taiwan in the next two years, according to Pentagon officials.
http://www.washtimes.com/specialreport/20050626-122138-1088r.htm

Shop at WalMart, buy a communist a nuke.

themistocles
07-19-2005, 02:19 AM
Many people have either dropped out of the labor market or have never even entered it. Count those people, and the real jobless rate is 7.4 percent.


D**n those retirees and independently wealthy people!

ironwest
07-19-2005, 02:03 PM
Yes great use slave labor to make cheap products; they would have loved you in the US before 1860.
US companies were not failing, in China where they pay factory workers 40 cents an hour there are many profits to be made, basically from slavery but apparently you support people in chains..
Slavery is not legal in China. One can turn down any job, just like in US. People in China are happy to have the opportunity to work, make more money than before. 40 cents/hr is almost the minimum wage in China now. Most of those jobs provide minimum housing. Live with 40c/hr wage is hard in China but not harder than live with minimum wage in US.

I agree China has done incredible things under communism, but in a country that large only a brutal dictatorship, with no freedom could have done it. What will happen to China if they ever let Democracy in? So your position that the only two alternatives are poison air and water or food? Shallow thinking, you have to be a republican..
My position is between starving and pollution today, I choose pollution. As for better goverment, I hope they transform to more democratic system in a similar way like Taiwan did.


China is building its military forces faster than U.S. intelligence and military analysts expected, prompting fears that Beijing will attack Taiwan in the next two years, according to Pentagon officials.

As China said, force is the last resort. Even when force is used, it will be the minimum to stop the separation of Taiwan. China will have that capability to stop separation in 2 years. Still that is far from capability to attack US.

wolfuncle
07-19-2005, 03:01 PM
Slavery is not legal in China. One can turn down any job, just like in US. People in China are happy to have the opportunity to work, make more money than before. 40 cents/hr is almost the minimum wage in China now. Most of those jobs provide minimum housing. Live with 40c/hr wage is hard in China but not harder than live with minimum wage in US. My question would be how could there be “free trade” if one country pays 40 cents and hour and others pay a living wage? You can define slavery how ever you want, 40 cents and hour is slavery, and it is mostly US corporations who benefit, not consumers>


My position is between starving and pollution today, I choose pollution. As for better goverment, I hope they transform to more democratic system in a similar way like Taiwan did.
You ignored what I said, I think the bs that the only way to feed people is to destroy the environment is just corporate bs. They want massive profits at any cost. If you think the US corporations presently raping Chinese workers care about Chinese worker you live in a dream world.

As China said, force is the last resort. Even when force is used, it will be the minimum to stop the separation of Taiwan. China will have that capability to stop separation in 2 years. Still that is far from capability to attack US.Again you ignore the obvious, I would say the threat of the use of Nuclear Weapons is hardly “minimum” force. The Chinese are well equipped with nuclear weapons, and US corporations are just stuffing their pockets with all the Nuclear Power plants they will build in China (a source of Nuclear Weapons materials). You live in a dream world, I don’t know what drugs you are on but please send me some right away.

ironwest
07-19-2005, 04:14 PM
My question would be how could there be “free trade” if one country pays 40 cents and hour and others pay a living wage? You can define slavery how ever you want, 40 cents and hour is slavery, and it is mostly US corporations who benefit, not consumers>.
Remove minimum wage and pay 40c if you can find anyone to work for you in US.


You ignored what I said, I think the bs that the only way to feed people is to destroy the environment is just corporate bs. They want massive profits at any cost. If you think the US corporations presently raping Chinese workers care about Chinese worker you live in a dream world..
Ift is not corporate's goal to care for people, although they do need to care their employee, because even in China one can choose better employers.

Again you ignore the obvious, I would say the threat of the use of Nuclear Weapons is hardly “minimum” force. The Chinese are well equipped with nuclear weapons.
That is if US intervene. What will you do if your neighbour point a gun at your head, force you to let your brother take away your property?

wolfuncle
07-19-2005, 04:20 PM
Remove minimum wage and pay 40c if you can find anyone to work for you in US.

Great plan, if you foresee everyone living in cardboard boxes. You know that is unrealistic, so your proposal is world slavery that will make world corporations multi billionaires?

Ift is not corporate's goal to care for people, although they do need to care their employee, because even in China one can choose better employers. If you benefit from this planet and the work of people on it, you would make a great corporate leader believing that corporations have no responsibility to the world they benefit from. You have just created a fairly accurate definition of greed.



That is if US intervene. What will you do if your neighbour point a gun at your head, force you to let your brother take away your property?I don’t know what I was thinking, China is in the process of building the largest military in the world and of course we know it is because they only seek peace. Please send me some of those drugs you are using.

ironwest
07-19-2005, 05:02 PM
Great plan, if you foresee everyone living in cardboard boxes. You know that is unrealistic, so your proposal is world slavery that will make world corporations multi billionaires?.
50 years ago many make 40c/hr, and they all live in cardboard?

If you benefit from this planet and the work of people on it, you would make a great corporate leader believing that corporations have no responsibility to the world they benefit from. You have just created a fairly accurate definition of greed..
Average investor in corporate is greedy in profit. Who will invest money in corporate which does not make money, or lose your investment? What you described is charity and everyone is welcome to it.


I don’t know what I was thinking, China is in the process of building the largest military in the world and of course we know it is because they only seek peace. Please send me some of those drugs you are using.
So far China has not occupied any foreign land since the communist win in 1949.

wolfuncle
07-19-2005, 11:11 PM
50 years ago many make 40c/hr, and they all live in cardboard?

It is not 50 years ago, and cardboard will just not make it. In my opinion a hand full of people making billions while most make only enough to get by is never justifiable.

Average investor in corporate is greedy in profit. Who will invest money in corporate which does not make money, or lose your investment? What you described is charity and everyone is welcome to it.

Sounds like an excuse for greed, it is not a question of just making a profit it is a question of massive profit.


So far China has not occupied any foreign land since the communist win in 1949.What would be the purpose of the largest military in the world?

Java_man
07-19-2005, 11:35 PM
Here is Bush's job plan ...

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themistocles
07-20-2005, 12:23 AM
I'm pretty sure unemployment in my state is about under 4%.

wolfuncle
07-20-2005, 12:25 AM
I'm pretty sure unemployment in my state is about under 4%.
what state is yours.

wolfuncle
07-20-2005, 12:36 AM
I'm pretty sure unemployment in my state is about under 4%.
Nevada
4.0% in May 2005 Seasonably adjusted, but of course does not account for those who have fallen of the list, Nevada is not a huge manufacturing state so would seem it should be more stable than other states, China has an unemployment rate of 4.2%.

themistocles
07-20-2005, 12:40 AM
Certainly acceptable to me.

wolfuncle
07-20-2005, 12:50 AM
Certainly acceptable to me.
what china's unemployment rate?

themistocles
07-20-2005, 12:59 AM
Nevada's. If someone wants a job here, then they'll get one.

wolfuncle
07-20-2005, 01:02 AM
Nevada's. If someone wants a job here, then they'll get one.
well except for 4 percent of those people and if people started coming to Nevada then the unemployment rate would increase, many states in the US are not having as good a time at it as Nevada, don't think the Chinese can compete with the casinos.

themistocles
07-20-2005, 01:04 AM
well except for 4 percent of those people and if people started coming to Nevada then the unemployment rate would increase, many states in the US are not having as good a time at it as Nevada, don't think the Chinese can compete with the casinos.

Well:

1. People are moving en masse to Nevada, and mostly for jobs.
2. That 4.2% isn't a static representation of the same exact people. Some unemployed people get jobs, some unemployed people move in, so yeah, even those 4% are "getting jobs".

wolfuncle
07-20-2005, 01:15 AM
Well:

1. People are moving en masse to Nevada, and mostly for jobs.
2. That 4.2% isn't a static representation of the same exact people. Some unemployed people get jobs, some unemployed people move in, so yeah, even those 4% are "getting jobs".
Debatable about that but possible, many of the new people coming into the state are still not on the states unemployed rolls, but don't worry there is not an economist in the world that would ever allow full employment, guess some have to suffer while others benifit.

ironwest
07-20-2005, 02:24 PM
It is not 50 years ago, and cardboard will just not make it. In my opinion a hand full of people making billions while most make only enough to get by is never justifiable.
40% of US household invest in stock market.


Sounds like an excuse for greed, it is not a question of just making a profit it is a question of massive profit.
Average investor in stocks needs the profit to live. Massive profit is not possible in free market with competitions.


What would be the purpose of the largest military in the world?
Who is the largest military power? It is not China.

wolfuncle
07-20-2005, 02:44 PM
40% of US household invest in stock market.
I don’t understand your point, the cosmetics of a few people holding stock proves the trickle down theory of economics works? This is the reality of economics in the US:
Top 20 percent receives 83 percent of all income.
Second 20 percent receives 12 percent
Third 20 percent receives 2 percent
Fourth 20 percent receives 2 percent
Bottom 20 percent receives 1 percent

And under exiting corporate control the gap between rich and poor is growing and will continue to grow in the US.



Average investor in stocks needs the profit to live. Massive profit is not possible in free market with competitions. If the stock market is your solution to the growing economic woes of the US the US is in big trouble. The wealth is being held by the wealthy and will continue to be, unless of course you have some real stats on the distribution of wealth in the US.



Who is the largest military power? It is not China.
Why are you so afraid to answer questions about China? The largest military in the world is the US, and what the US does with this military is invade other countries when it seems to their economic or “strategic” advantage. If US and other world corporations have their way they will sell China the largest and most modern military in the world. CAN YOU ANSWER THIS QUESTION, WHAT WILL CHINA DO WITH THAT MILITARY AND WHY DO THEY NEED IT?

ironwest
07-20-2005, 04:25 PM
I don’t understand your point, the cosmetics of a few people holding stock proves the trickle down theory of economics works?
My point is 40% of US population share the profit the corporation makes.

And under exiting corporate control the gap between rich and poor is growing and will continue to grow in the US.
The 140 million employed still makes more than all their third world counter parts.


Why are you so afraid to answer questions about China? The largest military in the world is the US, and what the US does with this military is invade other countries when it seems to their economic or “strategic” advantage. If US and other world corporations have their way they will sell China the largest and most modern military in the world. CAN YOU ANSWER THIS QUESTION, WHAT WILL CHINA DO WITH THAT MILITARY AND WHY DO THEY NEED IT?
They need it for the same reason as US. Not as you said to "invade other country", but to prevent WWIII and defend the interest of the country.

wolfuncle
07-20-2005, 05:19 PM
My point is 40% of US population share the profit the corporation makes.
Because some share in the profits generated by crime does not legitimize the crime, slavery is against any human law.


The 140 million employed still makes more than all their third world counter parts.

Why do you so easily excuse greed because others may have it worse, I assume this is your endorsement of 5% of the world’s population holding 90% of the wealth.


They need it for the same reason as US. Not as you said to "invade other country", but to prevent WWIII and defend the interest of the country.I can understand the need to defend especially with the greed of the US knocking on China’s door, but China has a military strong enough to defend itself why would it need the ability to kill and destroy internationally?

ironwest
07-20-2005, 06:06 PM
Because some share in the profits generated by crime does not legitimize the crime, slavery is against any human law.?
Live with 40c/hr in China isn't worse than live with minimum wage in US. What slavery are you talking about?


Why do you so easily excuse greed because others may have it worse, I assume this is your endorsement of 5% of the world’s population holding 90% of the wealth.?
The difference motivate people to excel. If you prefer a even distribution, you can go to a socialist country if you can find one.


I can understand the need to defend especially with the greed of the US knocking on China’s door, but China has a military strong enough to defend itself why would it need the ability to kill and destroy internationally?
Has China killed and destroyed internationally under this goverment?

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