Let us assume, for the sake of this discussion, that ghosts do in fact exist, not as some product of our imaginations, but as real entities of some sort. Let us now also assume that ghosts are the remnants of our consciousness after death, our souls in you will.

What are the intentions of such apparitions? Why is it that some seem to come before us to emit scenes of horror, while other wish to portray acts of their former lives. Some seem to want to warn of some impending danger, or enact justice upon those who have wronged them while they were alive. Others still, seem to simply pester the living, as if they had nothing better to do. Is it that they do not in fact realise that they are dead? Do they even perceive our world? Why are they even there at all? I am curious to know your thoughts on these questions.

-michele

Let us assume, for the sake of discussion, that a grilled cheese sammich is our lord and savior, not just some tasty, cheesy treat, but as a real omnipotent master of our souls and destiny. Do you choose to eat the sammich?

:|

I totally believe in spirits- ghosts of those who have died as well as spirits that were never alive as most people think of the term living- What motivates them? don't ask me I rarely know my own motivations LOL

Let us assume, for the sake of discussion, that a grilled cheese sammich is our lord and savior, not just some tasty, cheesy treat, but as a real omnipotent master of our souls and destiny. Do you choose to eat the sammich?

:|

!!! You're a weirdo!!!

But I like you already. :D

I totally believe in spirits- ghosts of those who have died as well as spirits that were never alive as most people think of the term living- What motivates them? don't ask me I rarely know my own motivations LOL

Well, if these spirits are wondering around earth what perspective does this put heaven and hell in, if such places exist? :D

-michele

Not all of the spirits are trapped here- some can come and go as they please- This is Hell Heaven is a constant state of euphoria Nirvana And there are Hungry Ghosts

Come on M- we've been thru my crazy Christian/Buddhist beliefs and not many here are gonna agree w/any of my views on this

ghosts... spirits... all mumbo-jumbo.

easy w/the mumbo jumbo voodoo there Red- you never know what your grumblings may entice LOL

I agree with Red.
I live in Berks County, PA... one of the more famous areas of the countries for supposed "Hauntings" with many books regarding the paranormal-hotspots of the area... and to this date I have never seen anything out of the ordinary. I think ghosts are nothing more than an overactive imagination.

:nice:

I totally believe in spirits- ghosts of those who have died as well as spirits that were never alive as most people think of the term living- What motivates them? don't ask me I rarely know my own motivations LOL

:stupid:

Well I have a lively imagination and I have seen a ghost but I do not think the 2 are mutually exclusive.

Imagine this way- A lady walks down the street to her car while eyeing the shows in nearby window- opposite the window, next to the curb was a lil dirty puppy- she gets in the car and goes on Since she did not see, hear or feel the puppy does the dog just not exist

easy w/the mumbo jumbo voodoo there Red- you never know what your grumblings may entice LOL
my grumblings will entice nothing. :)

Ha! So says the death clown! I'm on to you pally

Imagine this way- A lady walks down the street to her car while eyeing the shows in nearby window- opposite the window, next to the curb was a lil dirty puppy- she gets in the car and goes on Since she did not see, hear or feel the puppy does the dog just not exist

:|

Puppys are real.

:|

Puppys are real.

Puppys are teh best. :nice:

:|

Puppys are real.


then just b/c you haven't seen a ghost does not mean it isn't real

ghosts... spirits... all mumbo-jumbo.

That is what I thought until I experienced it first hand a few years ago. Be doubtful, but don't fall into the trap of being narrow minded about his, because if you have an encounter in that mind set it will make it that much harder to deal with if you do experience it. Most stuff is recorded on camera, and of those, most are fakes. It's the actuall physical experience of seeing something happen first hand that will truly make you a believer.

We were on a civil war dig down in Gerogia against some yankee fortification, earthworks. We camped out there. One of the guys took a snapshot of us around the fire. When developed, right in the center of the picture was a perfectly round U.S. breast plate hanging above the fire. The type they used from the late 1850's until the 1870's, clear as day. It was as if the apparition was warming his hands but the only thing that we could see was his breast plate.

There is a 19th century slave grave yard about a mile from house. All the coffins have rotted in and there are depressions in the ground as a result, a couple feet deep. Descedents of slaves, and dead slaves, plus a few confederate military veterans with different stone markders. I'd dare any one of you to spend the night in that place taking pictures, recording sounds etc, aksing the spirits to come out. That would be entertaining especially if beer was involved. I doubt even the skeptics would last the night, lol.

Let us assume, for the sake of this discussion, that ghosts do in fact exist, not as some product of our imaginations, but as real entities of some sort. Let us now also assume that ghosts are the remnants of our consciousness after death, our souls in you will.

What are the intentions of such apparitions? Why is it that some seem to come before us to emit scenes of horror, while other wish to portray acts of their former lives. Some seem to want to warn of some impending danger, or enact justice upon those who have wronged them while they were alive. Others still, seem to simply pester the living, as if they had nothing better to do. Is it that they do not in fact realise that they are dead? Do they even perceive our world? Why are they even there at all? I am curious to know your thoughts on these questions.

-michele


An added possibility would be a glimpse through time whis still has limited impact in the present. I know, that is out there, but it is a theorey that what we are seeing has already happened. We just catch glimpses of it from time to time. Hell, imagine if this is true the confusion the that the poor ghosts have as the peer briefly into the future.

About ten years ago, I was working very late at night. My business partner was upstairs. Out of the blue, I felt a DISTINCT tap on my shoulder; about 4-5 taps. I turned around, thinking it was my partner trying to get my attention, because I had noisy machinery running.

There was NO ONE there. It scared the crap out of me at first, and I got out of there immediately. However, once I calmed down, I went back in, and everything was fine, with no incident.

I didn't know it at the time, but that very night, a former friend/co worker of mine ran into a telephone pole in his truck and killed himself. All I can figure is he dropped in to say goodbye before he moved on to the next level. It was one of the most incredible experiences of my life.

I'm convinced that if a person is open to such things, they arer much more likely to manifest. Once the ego, societal conditioning, peer pressure, religion and other things take over, we become much less open, if not skeptical. I believe that's why children are much more open to receive "visitors" and have other experiences. Their innocence and faith and confidence in their senses hasn't been corrupted yet.

Very true indeed.

ghosts... spirits... all mumbo-jumbo.

Come on. I said, "Let us assume, for the sake of this discussion, that ghosts do in fact exist".. The point of the thread is to get opinions on what you think they are doing here, not whether you (or anyone else) thinks it's bull**** or not. :rolleyes:

-michele

A ghost saved my life when I was 19 years old, so I would be rather unappreciative if I didn't believe in ghosts :)

The motivations of ghosts are probably as varied as the motivations of the living. Why do we stay in one place rather than move on? Emotional attachments, trauma, desire, lack of courage and direction... I am quite certain all the same apply to the recently (or not so recently) departed.

As for those who do not believe, I guess seeing is believing for them, and until they experience something themselves, it must be labeled as mumbo-jumbo rather than regarded as a possibility one simply has not yet encountered yet. There must be a reason for such staunch rejection of the concept, but that probably stems from personal psychology and could not be easily commented upon without further information.

Unfortunately the obstacle so familiar to what is wrongly called the 'supernatural' applies to ghosts: the rut of perception in an adult is so deep that phenomena that exist outside that rut will continue to be ignored, ESPECIALLY if the person's perceptual paradigm considers these phenomena to not be there in the first place. This obstacle is none other than the problems one encounters hearing very faint sounds, or seeing very faint lights: you often have to know they are there in order to hear or see them. If you know there is a very faint sound, you can strain to hear it... otherwise it gets lost in the throng of other sounds and thoughts vying for your attention.

I don't get worked up about people who close their eyes to these realities anymore: I stopped worrying about it the day I stopped caring what negative judgements those same people would bring to bear upon me because of what I perceive and they do not. In the end my reality is broader, richer and more meaningful than those who place fences around their perception.

M.

A ghost saved my life when I was 19 years old, so I would be rather unappreciative if I didn't believe in ghosts :)
M.

Oh do tell. I'm a believer so this isn't some kind of trap. :)

Oh do tell. I'm a believer so this isn't some kind of trap. :)

Not a problem: I'm a busy right now but I'll be back sooner or later!

M.

I believe, I've seen some strange sh*t. :|

About ten years ago, I was working very late at night. My business partner was upstairs. Out of the blue, I felt a DISTINCT tap on my shoulder; about 4-5 taps. I turned around, thinking it was my partner trying to get my attention, because I had noisy machinery running.

There was NO ONE there. It scared the crap out of me at first, and I got out of there immediately. However, once I calmed down, I went back in, and everything was fine, with no incident.

I didn't know it at the time, but that very night, a former friend/co worker of mine ran into a telephone pole in his truck and killed himself. All I can figure is he dropped in to say goodbye before he moved on to the next level. It was one of the most incredible experiences of my life.

I'm convinced that if a person is open to such things, they arer much more likely to manifest. Once the ego, societal conditioning, peer pressure, religion and other things take over, we become much less open, if not skeptical. I believe that's why children are much more open to receive "visitors" and have other experiences. Their innocence and faith and confidence in their senses hasn't been corrupted yet.


Oh my god. :eek: That gave me chills. :eek3:


I believe in ghosts. :)

Oh do tell. I'm a believer so this isn't some kind of trap. :)

:stupid:

A ghost saved my life when I was 19 years old, so I would be rather unappreciative if I didn't believe in ghosts :)

The motivations of ghosts are probably as varied as the motivations of the living. Why do we stay in one place rather than move on? Emotional attachments, trauma, desire, lack of courage and direction... I am quite certain all the same apply to the recently (or not so recently) departed.

As for those who do not believe, I guess seeing is believing for them, and until they experience something themselves, it must be labeled as mumbo-jumbo rather than regarded as a possibility one simply has not yet encountered yet. There must be a reason for such staunch rejection of the concept, but that probably stems from personal psychology and could not be easily commented upon without further information.

Unfortunately the obstacle so familiar to what is wrongly called the 'supernatural' applies to ghosts: the rut of perception in an adult is so deep that phenomena that exist outside that rut will continue to be ignored, ESPECIALLY if the person's perceptual paradigm considers these phenomena to not be there in the first place. This obstacle is none other than the problems one encounters hearing very faint sounds, or seeing very faint lights: you often have to know they are there in order to hear or see them. If you know there is a very faint sound, you can strain to hear it... otherwise it gets lost in the throng of other sounds and thoughts vying for your attention.

I don't get worked up about people who close their eyes to these realities anymore: I stopped worrying about it the day I stopped caring what negative judgements those same people would bring to bear upon me because of what I perceive and they do not. In the end my reality is broader, richer and more meaningful than those who place fences around their perception.

M.

Nicely said - I feel teh same about my reality too!

And also, want to hear the story. :)

Ok here's the story.
I was 19 and had just returned to Miami from France for a new college year (which would have made it August - that lines up with my memory of the clingy, stifling weather).
I didn't have a place, so I stayed with my friend R for ten days or so.
R lived with her brother and his wife and baby daughter (she was 5 or so) in a house they all swore was haunted. Mostly the ghost would be felt as a presence, or would turn lights on or off while people were out.
For instance everyone would leave the house with all the lights off, and would return to find them all on. The child and mother had seen the ghost: the little girl would hold conversations with an 'oldish man', and when she was found talking to thin air, she would innocently say the 'the old man is here'.
Her mother saw a shadow when she was alone in the house one night: the light from the corridor was occluded momentarily as if something had passed in front of it.

I was not yet as perceptive in those days as I have grown to be, but I felt something about the place. I had more and more trouble sleeping there (which is very unusual for me: I'm blessed with the ability to fall a sleep with the greatest ease).
There was no anxiety involved: just a strange alertness that would stay with me late into the night. During the last nights, it would keep me up until for or five in the morning.
My behaviour became strange during those night hours as well: I would just kind of 'be' in the living room. I wouldn't do anything in particular to distract myself. I'd just sit there, or walk around the living room they had set me up to sleep in. It was very odd.
The day before we were to drive to get my very first car, I was awake until 5 in the morning. My state of mind became so bizarre that I pulled out some paper and started to write: my will. It just occured to me that I had had a blessed life until now and that it was time to prepare for potentially leaving this world!

I wish I could explain it better to you, but I don't understand it myself: it was a very strange state of mind and its internal logic escapes me today. I was not suicidal in the slightest: I was eager to start the new year, catch up with my friends and for the first time have a car to get around in...

The next day, R got back from work in the late afternoon, and we hopped into her orange Pacer to go pick up my car.

In those days, the only times I would ever wear a seatbelt was if I was with someone who would give me a hard time about it. R was 19 too, and a bad girl in more ways than one: there was no pressure from her, that's for sure. But to this day, I remember sitting shotgun while R put the keys in the ignition and thinking: I should wear my seatbelt. I'm going to wear my seatbelt. It was a feeling that something was amiss if I didn't wear it.
I repeat: this NEVER, EVER happened to me with seatbelts.

Exiting the freeway, the lights of the first intersection were green so R only slowed to about 50 mph. As if in slow motion, a car (I think it was an Impala) started to pull out from its red light. My mind stuttered as I tried to decide whether I should point it out to R or whether she had already seen it and would be annoyed at my 'backseat driving'. R didn't see it until it was way too late, and she hardly had time to brake at all (I don't recall us slowing at all, but I assume she must have slammed on the brakes at the last moment).

Her car spun and ended up slamming into one of the cement supports of the freeway. We were both ok, although the force of the collision threw me against my seatbelt so hard that I thought I had broken ribs, and my chest and side were sore for weeks. I have no doubt in my mind that I would have died without my seatbelt. R, miraculously, had decided to wear her's too.

My premonition is hard to explain, but the explanation that rings true to my ears is that in those lonely hours of the night during which I was inexplicably insomniac, the ghost was by my side, telling me things. And although I did not hear them consciously, they crept up through my subconscious and translated themselves into the bewildering nights, writing my will, and ultimately, when the time came to either wear my seatbelt or not, into that odd feeling that I just probably should this time around.

I slept fine after the accident, and although the house still felt odd to me, nothing kept me awake or caused me to think out-of-the-ordinary thoughts.

M.

Oh my god. :eek: That gave me chills. :eek3:


I believe in ghosts. :)



:stupid:


It gave ME some SERIOUS chills when it happened!!

I've always believed in the supernatural. I've had quite a few wierd experiences in my life, and when it happens, you believe.

I think that taps on the shoulder and moving objects are caused by people who are very much alive but who can make themselves invisible.

Let us assume, for the sake of this discussion, that ghosts do in fact exist, not as some product of our imaginations, but as real entities of some sort. Let us now also assume that ghosts are the remnants of our consciousness after death, our souls in you will.

What are the intentions of such apparitions? Why is it that some seem to come before us to emit scenes of horror, while other wish to portray acts of their former lives. Some seem to want to warn of some impending danger, or enact justice upon those who have wronged them while they were alive. Others still, seem to simply pester the living, as if they had nothing better to do. Is it that they do not in fact realise that they are dead? Do they even perceive our world? Why are they even there at all? I am curious to know your thoughts on these questions.

-michele

All of the above! That is, I have heard all of those theories. Mostly, that ghosts are unaware of their metabolically challenged status.

About ten years ago, I was working very late at night. My business partner was upstairs. Out of the blue, I felt a DISTINCT tap on my shoulder; about 4-5 taps. I turned around, thinking it was my partner trying to get my attention, because I had noisy machinery running.

There was NO ONE there. It scared the crap out of me at first, and I got out of there immediately. However, once I calmed down, I went back in, and everything was fine, with no incident.

I didn't know it at the time, but that very night, a former friend/co worker of mine ran into a telephone pole in his truck and killed himself. All I can figure is he dropped in to say goodbye before he moved on to the next level. It was one of the most incredible experiences of my life.

I'm convinced that if a person is open to such things, they arer much more likely to manifest. Once the ego, societal conditioning, peer pressure, religion and other things take over, we become much less open, if not skeptical. I believe that's why children are much more open to receive "visitors" and have other experiences. Their innocence and faith and confidence in their senses hasn't been corrupted yet.

That was an interesting story, Betrade. Obviously, you were open to the experience. You are privileged that your friend came to say good-bye.

Ok here's the story.
I was 19 and had just returned to Miami from France for a new college year (which would have made it August - that lines up with my memory of the clingy, stifling weather).
I didn't have a place, so I stayed with my friend R for ten days or so.
R lived with her brother and his wife and baby daughter (she was 5 or so) in a house they all swore was haunted. Mostly the ghost would be felt as a presence, or would turn lights on or off while people were out.
For instance everyone would leave the house with all the lights off, and would return to find them all on. The child and mother had seen the ghost: the little girl would hold conversations with an 'oldish man', and when she was found talking to thin air, she would innocently say the 'the old man is here'.
Her mother saw a shadow when she was alone in the house one night: the light from the corridor was occluded momentarily as if something had passed in front of it.

I was not yet as perceptive in those days as I have grown to be, but I felt something about the place. I had more and more trouble sleeping there (which is very unusual for me: I'm blessed with the ability to fall a sleep with the greatest ease).
There was no anxiety involved: just a strange alertness that would stay with me late into the night. During the last nights, it would keep me up until for or five in the morning.
My behaviour became strange during those night hours as well: I would just kind of 'be' in the living room. I wouldn't do anything in particular to distract myself. I'd just sit there, or walk around the living room they had set me up to sleep in. It was very odd.
The day before we were to drive to get my very first car, I was awake until 5 in the morning. My state of mind became so bizarre that I pulled out some paper and started to write: my will. It just occured to me that I had had a blessed life until now and that it was time to prepare for potentially leaving this world!

I wish I could explain it better to you, but I don't understand it myself: it was a very strange state of mind and its internal logic escapes me today. I was not suicidal in the slightest: I was eager to start the new year, catch up with my friends and for the first time have a car to get around in...

The next day, R got back from work in the late afternoon, and we hopped into her orange Pacer to go pick up my car.

In those days, the only times I would ever wear a seatbelt was if I was with someone who would give me a hard time about it. R was 19 too, and a bad girl in more ways than one: there was no pressure from her, that's for sure. But to this day, I remember sitting shotgun while R put the keys in the ignition and thinking: I should wear my seatbelt. I'm going to wear my seatbelt. It was a feeling that something was amiss if I didn't wear it.
I repeat: this NEVER, EVER happened to me with seatbelts.

Exiting the freeway, the lights of the first intersection were green so R only slowed to about 50 mph. As if in slow motion, a car (I think it was an Impala) started to pull out from its red light. My mind stuttered as I tried to decide whether I should point it out to R or whether she had already seen it and would be annoyed at my 'backseat driving'. R didn't see it until it was way too late, and she hardly had time to brake at all (I don't recall us slowing at all, but I assume she must have slammed on the brakes at the last moment).

Her car spun and ended up slamming into one of the cement supports of the freeway. We were both ok, although the force of the collision threw me against my seatbelt so hard that I thought I had broken ribs, and my chest and side were sore for weeks. I have no doubt in my mind that I would have died without my seatbelt. R, miraculously, had decided to wear her's too.

My premonition is hard to explain, but the explanation that rings true to my ears is that in those lonely hours of the night during which I was inexplicably insomniac, the ghost was by my side, telling me things. And although I did not hear them consciously, they crept up through my subconscious and translated themselves into the bewildering nights, writing my will, and ultimately, when the time came to either wear my seatbelt or not, into that odd feeling that I just probably should this time around.

I slept fine after the accident, and although the house still felt odd to me, nothing kept me awake or caused me to think out-of-the-ordinary thoughts.

M.

Thank you for telling the story, Malcolm. That's good!

Ok here's the story.
M.

Nice story, but *if* ghosts exist, and they have the same emotions and workings as humans, how are they supposed to predict the future? I just don't get how the information of your car crash could have got back to you. Although it is the coincidence of coincidences, I admit that. I am glad to hear you survived too. :nice:

What are the intentions of such apparitions?
It depends on how they lived and how they died.

Is it that they do not in fact realise that they are dead? Do they even perceive our world? Why are they even there at all?
That is supposedly why Indus burn the dead - so that they will see their bodies burning up.

Some perceive the world, some do not. In our insane asylums there are people who cannot recognise reality. That same mindset can exist in the non-life.

Some don't want to leave. Maybe they're waiting for the next bus.

It depends on how they lived and how they died.


Some don't want to leave. Maybe they're waiting for the next bus.
The comment about the bus makes me think of C S Lewis' book 'The Great Divorce', in which the characters take a bus from Hell for a day trip to Heaven. It's weird but good...

Nice story, but *if* ghosts exist, and they have the same emotions and workings as humans, how are they supposed to predict the future? I just don't get how the information of your car crash could have got back to you. Although it is the coincidence of coincidences, I admit that. I am glad to hear you survived too. :nice:

Hi Tomsk!

I really can't say how the ghost had knowledge of the future. Like many of the questions asked of this thread: how does anyone have knowledge of the future? Yet people get accurate premonitions all the time... Many of my most startling premonitions have come in dream: and the dream state is likened by some eastern traditions to the state in which one finds oneself after death...

I find it easy to imagine that when not in the flesh, we might be somewhat closer to the state of being in which all points in time and space intersect...

M.

Interesting... I guess the only way to really find out is by dying. Hmmm.

I like the idea that a ghost's intentions can be from habit, like Prof. Binns in Harry Potter. He just got out of his chair one day to teach, and left his body behind, carrying on with the exact same routine! :D (HBP out in 11 days!!! [\offtopic] )

(HBP out in 11 days!!! [\offtopic] )

OMG, it is isn't it !

I'm not really sure about ghosts myself. I once thought that it was a loada crap, but after reading stories from here and other places I'm not sure.

On the topic of premonitions, quite often I get Deju vu, where I dream something and a few eeks or however long it happens in real life. For those of you who get it too (it's not uncommon) it's a weird feeling when the thing you dreamed about actually happens. The things I see are simple little things, like a certain view. It's mostly just vague events, but when the thing actually happens I remember it instantly.

Interesting... I guess the only way to really find out is by dying. Hmmm.

I like the idea that a ghost's intentions can be from habit, like Prof. Binns in Harry Potter. He just got out of his chair one day to teach, and left his body behind, carrying on with the exact same routine! :D (HBP out in 11 days!!! [\offtopic] )

I watched a show called 'Medium' (with Patricia Arquette last night, for only the second time, it was the end of the season, and ended with a cliff-hanger, when a Texas Ranger called Push (no, I'm not, that was his name) disconnected his external pacemaker, so he could go to the afterlife, solve a series of murders, or rather learn the solution and go to see Patricia's character and tell her. He's in hospital, so he knows he'll be revived in time... Or will he? Cliffhanger, you see. The idea being, that when you die, you see everything, though if/when you return you forget what you learned...

On the topic of premonitions, quite often I get Deju vu, where I dream something and a few eeks or however long it happens in real life. For those of you who get it too (it's not uncommon) it's a weird feeling when the thing you dreamed about actually happens. The things I see are simple little things, like a certain view. It's mostly just vague events, but when the thing actually happens I remember it instantly.
My son had a dream like that last week, and it really freaked him out, so much that he emailed me about it. It was all connected with his work - the precognitive element was about a work related email he got when he got to work, that he had dreamed he opened and read - and when he woke he wasn't sure if it was a dream or a memory - especially when he got to work and read the email. When he was a child, he dreamed about "plastic toys melting on a shelf" and that day, the local branch of Toyworld caught fire.
My precognitive dreams aren't so definite. Usually only part comes true - like in 1995, I dreamed of being with my brother in what I thought was an office building, with Astroturf in it, and seeing two planes crash behind the office. Two weeks later I went to my brother's new apartment, and it had a glassed-in conservatory with Astroturf, inside. No plane crashes though...

A couple days after we had moved to the country, about 10pm, there was a knock at the door. I heard it, my kids heard it. I answered the door and nobody was there. A couple minutes later, there was some more knocking on the door. This time, the dogs heard it so I knew it was for real. We answered the door and still nobody was there. We had no neighbors less than 1/2 mile away so it couldn't have been kids playing around. We figured it was my mother in law who had already passed away and the cemetary was right down the road. My kids were terrified!!

My kids were terrified!!

:eek3:

Heck I'm terrified now!! :eek:

Sept I'm such a scaredy cat. :|

-michele

On the topic of premonitions, quite often I get Deju vu, where I dream something and a few eeks or however long it happens in real life.
A quibble about your terminology:

Deja Vu refers to the extremely strange sensation that the present situation is completely familiar, when you know it can't be. The person having this experience is at a complete loss to say what the present is reminding him of. It only seems to be reminding him of itself, as if he had slipped back through a timeline and was relivivng the present moment over.

For those of you who get it too (it's not uncommon) it's a weird feeling when the thing you dreamed about actually happens.
I would call this a "premonition dream" not a Deja Vu.
You have the immediate and powerful realization that the reason the present seems familiar is because you dreamed of the same situation, and you can even remember the dream.

With a Deja Vu, it doesn't seem like you dreampt it, it seems like you already lived it. The uncanny strength of the feeling of familiarity is the same in both cases, but in the one you connect it instantly with a dream. The other can't be connected to anything but itself.

We had no neighbors less than 1/2 mile away so it couldn't have been kids playing around.
When I was a kid we ranged as far as our legs or bikes could take us, which was easily 5 miles, and this is exactly the sort of prank we would have perpetrated on strangers. I don't think you can rule kids out on this one.

When I was a kid we ranged as far as our legs or bikes could take us, which was easily 5 miles, and this is exactly the sort of prank we would have perpetrated on strangers. I don't think you can rule kids out on this one.

I agree with Scoots

Let us assume, for the sake of this discussion, that ghosts do in fact exist, not as some product of our imaginations, but as real entities of some sort. Let us now also assume that ghosts are the remnants of our consciousness after death, our souls in you will.

I like this approach. Assuming ghosts exist for the sake of discussion is not the same as claiming they actually exist. Scientists assume things all the time without knowing if the assumption is correct, and by working out the assumption they learn things, even if they ultimately realize the assumption was wrong.

So, assuming ghosts exist, there's one thing I never saw anyone consider: we are all ghosts! If we all have a soul that can exit the body after death, why can't that soul exit the body even before dying? That would explain a lot of those strange apparitions: maybe it's not dead people, maybe it's people who have not yet died and are wandering around while their bodies are asleep.

I took that idea from a dream. I once dreamed I was in a house I didn't recognize. I thought the house was empty and started inspecting all its rooms, but when I got to the kitchen there was a woman there and she was scared to see me. I was also scared to see her, so I ran away. I woke up a few minutes later and thought it was so funny; it was as if I was haunting the house in my dream. So I dreamed I was a ghost.

Yes. Even stipulating that something paranormal is going on, it is jumping to conclusions to assume "spirit of a dead person" for these happenings and apparitions. People do it automatically though, as a matter of cultural bias for that explanation.

So, what do you all think of Ghost Hunters, the TV show? One of my favourites.

............If we all have a soul that can exit the body after death, why can't that soul exit the body even before dying? That would explain a lot of those strange apparitions: ..........

Isn't this an assumption - "we all have a soul that can exit the body after death" ? Others say when we die, we die, there's nothing left!

So, assuming ghosts exist, there's one thing I never saw anyone consider: we are all ghosts! If we all have a soul that can exit the body after death, why can't that soul exit the body even before dying? That would explain a lot of those strange apparitions: maybe it's not dead people, maybe it's people who have not yet died and are wandering around while their bodies are asleep.

The problem with this is, you aren't concious when you are asleep, but your soul/ghost should surely be able to experience the world when you are asleep or unconcious, yet you can't, which implies when you die you can't experience anything, as being a ghost would mean you experience the world as you do when you are alive.

Two things..........I've had this happen from time to time. I'm like at the edge of sleep and suddenly, I can see the hall, then the living room just like I was walking thru the rooms myself, but then it freaks me out and I have this, (what only can be described as a head rush) and I'm back in the bed. Wierd huh? Anyway, the next point....Being a Christian, I subscribe to biblical explanation of the whole demon, angel thing. That is, in the spiritual relmn, demonic entities can mimic anyone. And even scripture says that we should be mindful of helping people because it could very well be an angel and we wouldn't know it. Personal story.....When I was in my early 20's, my mother died unexpectedly. I was disraught. At the funeral this black lady that no one knew slipped in and came over to me and told me not to worry because my mother was in a good place, and that she would want me to know that. I drew a whole lot of strength from her words, so a minute or so later, after gaining my composure,I went looking for her to thank her, but she was gone. No one else said that they had seen her. This was in an extemely small town where everyone knew everybody else. In fact, no one remembered a black lady even being there. Again, wierd or what?

Even stipulating that something paranormal is going on, it is jumping to conclusions to assume "spirit of a dead person" for these happenings and apparitions. People do it automatically though, as a matter of cultural bias for that explanation.

I don't think this is a matter of cultural bias, I think it is a fact that people do experience "seeing ghosts" and "feeling presences" and the "ghost" often shows up as someone who's been dead. If we really survive the death of our body, then it makes sense that close relatives or friends try to make contact with the living.

What I really can't make any sense of is the idea that people die and then spend centuries haunting the place where they were murdered, or something like that. You would think dead people have more interesting stuff to do. People who are alive and sleeping, however, are only semi-conscious and can easily engage in meaningless, repetitive behavior. I would be a kind of recurring dream.

Of course this is all conjecture.

ghosts... spirits... all mumbo-jumbo.

Yep. As I thought. Athiest.

So, what do you all think of Ghost Hunters, the TV show? One of my favourites.

A reality show on SciFi? Puh-leeeze.

I don't think this is a matter of cultural bias, I think it is a fact that people do experience "seeing ghosts" and "feeling presences" and the "ghost" often shows up as someone who's been dead.
How we interpret an apparition or a felt presence is a matter of what ideas about these things are floating around in our culture at the time. Why don't we automatically assume these are wood sprites playing tricks on us? Mainly because we weren't raised to believe in sprites or pookas or fairies and elves. In Greek times the apparition of someone whom you knew to be dead would mean a demon or god was playing tricks with your mind, since the dead are confined to hades and cant roam about.
There is a new notion that has come into play in the last 20-30 years, which is the stone tape "theory": ghosts are actually the lifeless "recording" of events that have been imprinted on matter in the area where something happened, which can be replayed long after the event. This notion has gained alot of popularity, despite the fact it was invented from thin air for a British made-for-TV movie, and ghost believers are now seriously having discussions about whether this or that apparition was a "stone tape" or a real, non-recorded spirit.

The notion that ghosts are really just people having out of body experiences in their sleep is as good as, if not better than, any other notion. All we need are a few gripping, well made popular books and movies with this premise to get the notion into popular culture, and some people will start using this explanation for their apparitions before any other ones.

How we interpret an apparition or a felt presence is a matter of what ideas about these things are floating around in our culture at the time.

How we interpret is indeed a matter of culture, but I was talking about the experience itself. I don't know if culture can actually shape the content of paranormal experiences. Your culture may tell you that dead people come back to visit the living, but I find it difficult to understand how culture can actually cause you to see a dead relative in front of you.

Why don't we automatically assume these are wood sprites playing tricks on us? Mainly because we weren't raised to believe in sprites or pookas or fairies and elves.

I think there are different kinds of ghost experiences, ranging from a vague chilling down the spine to a full-blown vision of someone long dead. Cultural interpretation is only required when you can't properly verbalize the experience. But when you see "grandpa Joe" right in front of you, that is what you see.

In Greek times the apparition of someone whom you knew to be dead would mean a demon or god was playing tricks with your mind, since the dead are confined to hades and cant roam about.

Of course what grandpa Joe is doing back on earth depends on culture. I'm just talking about the experience itself.

The notion that ghosts are really just people having out of body experiences in their sleep is as good as, if not better than, any other notion.

If ghosts are the souls of dead people, then we are all ghosts. It amuses me that people have never made the logical connection.

I believe in ghosts. i have a lot of personal stories/incidences/pictures of things that i have seen and heard. it would take too long to tell you everything, so if anyone is interested, email me and i will tell you everything that has happened to me so far. If you are not interested that is cool. I just know what i saw and heard. you can believe me or not- either way, i'll still get paid the same at work.
They all started when my dad bought an old house that used to be the vacation home of a famous vaudeville actress on a peninsula where (i know this sounds like poltergeist) there used to be an indian graveyard, and in the 1950's, they dug up the bones... i have a great picture of kids digging up bones to get the jewelry... anyway... before I was born, my mom (the flower child that she is) used to hold siances(i know i'm not spelling that right) at our house... things didn't start happening until the day i was born... email me if you want to hear more.

Ghosts are real!! We just can't see them. Can't explain why...I just think soo..

My old place was haunted. They were cool though, we'd play cards n sh*t. :nice:

A reality show on SciFi? Puh-leeeze.

I dunno man, give it a look. At the very least it's entertaining.