By Shane Cory

In a 100-0 vote, the U.S. Senate passed the 2nd largest supplemental spending bill in the history of the nation. If that were not enough reason to question the common sense of our legislators, the Republican and Democrat leaders also passed the Real ID Act which was hidden within the spending bill.

With the passing of the bill, states will have to abide by federal standards for providing driver's licenses and I.D. cards to citizens. States will also have to link their citizen databases to federal systems in order obtain funding for the program.

Driver's licenses issued by states not fulfilling federal requirements will not be accepted by any federal agency. What does that matter? Here are a few scenarios that may occur if your state were to not fulfill the new federal obligations:

* Flying to see a relative in another state? Don’t forget your papers: Domestic travelers could not pass through airport security checkpoints without a passport or a "Real" I.D. card.
* Want to serve your country? Apply for a passport first: Prospective military enlistees could not meet identification requirements with only state issued identification.
* Want to get a job? Not without federal documentation: The INS I-9 form is a required document for all U.S. workers. Section Two of the form requires identification to be examined by the employer. As no federal agency will accept "old" driver's licenses, your I.D. would no longer be valid. Be sure to bring your passport along to your next job interview.

Aside from the authoritarian restrictions that will be implemented within the next three years (the bill is to be fully implemented by May 2008 as it has been signed into law by President George W. Bush), there are many other consequences of the bill.

The forthcoming database sharing will now put U.S. citizens in the same class as criminals. While the Social Security Administration tracks names and employment data, the federal government will now have access to at least your physical description, disabilities, and your photo. In the past, this level of detail was only offered to the federal government within criminal databases.

If you are comfortable with the above, please take the time today to send a "thank you" note to your Republican or Democrat senators. Be sure to let them know that you enjoy having your personal freedom and privacy stolen. Otherwise, choose to support the Libertarian Party, which will continue to follow principle and fight for your individual liberty.


http://www.lp.org/article_142.shtml

creating a national id/license is a good thing. commercial trucking licenses have been national for some time now, IIRC. helps cut down ******* drivers who had their licenses revoked from getting a new one in another state.

as for flying with a photo id, and those I-9 forms, that's been in place for some time now.

creating a national id/license is a good thing. commercial trucking licenses have been national for some time now, IIRC. helps cut down ******* drivers who had their licenses revoked from getting a new one in another state.

as for flying with a photo id, and those I-9 forms, that's been in place for some time now.

Your papers, please!!

will my paper NJ driver's license do? :p :D

I think in the long run it will prove to be a good idea and the only solution in dealing with a number of problems....including the one Red just mentioned. So much varies between state to state....that alot of info is lost between them. It will be the best thing in the world for law enforcement.

Screw law enforcement! How about civil liberties and the right to privacy?

I think it was one of the founding fathers who said it's better to let ten guilty men go free than to imprison one innocent man.

Law enforcement does not trump civil liberties. I'd rather live free with the criminals than live in fear of the police.

Screw law enforcement!
how juvenile.

Youth in power! (even a forty-five year old "youth.")

Halt. Ihre Papiere bitte.

There was no way they were going to defeat it. The Repubs attached it to the defense spending bill. A good political move to get their Nazi like movement thru. This opens up a whole new chapter in the right to privacy fight. One succesful hack and they have everything they need to know about anyone in our country. Those without the card will not be able to take a vacation via airline or train (don't know about cruise) or go to a national park.

How will this help track illeagal immigrants or terrorists? They are already breaking the law so will they even bother trying to appear legitimate? (silly question) The only people they will be able to track are the average citizen, who already is not a threat. Nobody should have to go thru a Top Secret style background check just to be able to drive, fly, or ride a train.

There is a far more effective and less expensive alternative...
Enforce the existing laws. Use what is already there and tweak it to make it work.

There was no way they were going to defeat it. The Repubs attached it to the defense spending bill. A good political move to get their Nazi like movement thru.

Absolutely! You can attach anything you want to a defense spending bill. That way, anyone whe votes against it is voting against our troops! You can't win an election by voting against our troops! They could attach a provision that says everybody with blue eyes has to have a rectal exam, and it would still pass, because everybody wants to support the troops!!

Face it: our Congress sucks. It's time to do something about it!

Absolutely! You can attach anything you want to a defense spending bill. That way, anyone whe votes against it is voting against our troops! You can't win an election by voting against our troops! They could attach a provision that says everybody with blue eyes has to have a rectal exam, and it would still pass, because everybody wants to support the troops!!

*ding* :nice:

and "line item veto" would not have worked in this case either since the prez supported it. :P

I often agree with the Libertarian Party, but in this case they are overreacting. Being required to present a standard ID for specific purposes is not the equivalent of being required to carry and present a national ID (and being randomly stopped by police to make sure you have it).

* Flying to see a relative in another state? Don’t forget your papers: Domestic travelers could not pass through airport security checkpoints without a passport or a "Real" I.D. card.

How is this any different than the current requirement to provide a State driver's license or passport?

* Want to serve your country? Apply for a passport first: Prospective military enlistees could not meet identification requirements with only state issued identification.

Again, a specific purpose requirement for ID. Considering that troops are often sent overseas, having a passport for ID is plain old common sense.

* Want to get a job? Not without federal documentation: The INS I-9 form is a required document for all U.S. workers. Section Two of the form requires identification to be examined by the employer. As no federal agency will accept "old" driver's licenses, your I.D. would no longer be valid. Be sure to bring your passport along to your next job interview.

Again, how is this any different than the two forms of ID (driver's license and social security card, the latter a federal document) that are currently required? One can also currently satisfy the requirement with a passport (another federal document!).

All this bill is doing is creating standards for ID to cut down on fraud and fake IDs - and to require that the standardized format be used in activities for which there is already federal oversight.

All this bill is doing is creating standards for ID to cut down on fraud and fake IDs - and to require that the standardized format be used in activities for which there is already federal oversight.
thank you.

Being required to present a standard ID for specific purposes is not the equivalent of being required to carry and present a national ID (and being randomly stopped by police to make sure you have it).



Not yet, that is for stage three. Stage two is to be required to carry it at all times and stage three random checks, after all that is the only way to make sure you are all obeying the law.

ANd then, of course, the fine if you do not have it with you. It is coming. I will make you a small wager - five years time - if we are both still around - compulsory ID cards in the UK and US which must be carried at all times.

Not yet, that is for stage three. Stage two is to be required to carry it at all times and stage three random checks, after all that is the only way to make sure you are all obeying the law.

ANd then, of course, the fine if you do not have it with you. It is coming. I will make you a small wager - five years time - if we are both still around - compulsory ID cards in the UK and US which must be carried at all times.


I'll take you up on that bet. I can't answer for the UK, but your paranoid fear will not be realized in the U.S.

Now for the wager: As I am in San Francisco, I offer up a Dungeness crab, a loaf of sour dough and a bottle of CA Chardonnay.

I'll take you up on that bet. I can't answer for the UK, but your paranoid fear will not be realized in the U.S.

Now for the wager: As I am in San Francisco, I offer up a Dungeness crab, a loaf of sour dough and a bottle of CA Chardonnay.

As I am in London I will match you with a plate of jellied eels, a loaf of olive bread and a brace of real ale.

PS

This is one bet I really hope I lose, but you can see it happening already - the ground work, what are you frightened of? They have the information already. The health service can't afford all these illegal aliens milking it. The illegals are a real danger they might be terrorists and these cards will help us identify them, (just don't ask how unless we have random checks)

As I am in London I will match you with a plate of jellied eels, a loaf of olive bread and a brace of real ale.

PS

This is one bet I really hope I lose, but you can see it happening already - the ground work, what are you frightened of? They have the information already. The health service can't afford all these illegal aliens milking it. The illegals are a real danger they might be terrorists and these cards will help us identify them, (just don't ask how unless we have random checks)


You are on! I will look forward to the jellied eels et al in 5 years. Presenting ID for services is far different that random checks in a police state. I haven't lived in England, but culturally, such checks will never be accepted in the U.S. It goes against our cultural grain. From what I know of the development of English law, it goes against yours as well.

I strongly suggest you two send some emails and/or real letters to each other, so you have this wager in writing. I'm sure we'll all forget in five years otherwise.

You are on! I will look forward to the jellied eels et al in 5 years. Presenting ID for services is far different that random checks in a police state. I haven't lived in England, but culturally, such checks will never be accepted in the U.S. It goes against our cultural grain. From what I know of the development of English law, it goes against yours as well.


It goes agains the grain here but they are bringing it in in the way I described, to limit health tourism, prevent illegals accessing services etc. It only takes one further step to move it to the Belgian system to ensure that you have to carry it at all times, one little provoked incident should do it, a nice big media campaign and bingo.

You are on! I will look forward to the jellied eels et al in 5 years. Presenting ID for services is far different that random checks in a police state. I haven't lived in England, but culturally, such checks will never be accepted in the U.S. It goes against our cultural grain. From what I know of the development of English law, it goes against yours as well.


Just to let you know the latest over here, ID cards have been announced in the Queens Speech (that's where parliament is officially opened and HMG sets out what it intends to do in the next term of office). Plus in the last two Prime ministers questions times there have been questions asked about identity theft and fraud and our Tone has been waffling on about how ID cards will prevent this....although how it will prevent a fare dodging passenger from claiming to be John William Doe or Richad Roe unless he is required to carry and produce an ID card, I don't know. Plus, even bettter, we will have to cough up £85 (up from £75 to £80) or about $130 for the privilege of carrying this piece of $h1t!!

Wouldn't it be much easier to kick Mexicans/Arabs/etc out rather than countinuously degrading our freedoms?

Wouldn't it be much easier to kick Mexicans/Arabs/etc out rather than countinuously degrading our freedoms?

I say we start with the Irish.

Wouldn't it be much easier to kick Mexicans/Arabs/etc out rather than countinuously degrading our freedoms?

NO...if anything...it's the one way to find out who and who not is here legally. It's hard to fix old lost paperwork. So....with new ID's....each person who has one has as much of a right to be here as anyone else.

Just another nationwide policy, courtesy of the State's Rights party.

:|

The forthcoming database sharing will now put U.S. citizens in the same class as criminals.

This is certainly a leftist objective and would overjoy the subversives at the ACLU. But how else can the country deal with the 20,000,000 illegal invaders and the millions of criminals on the loose? I support rounding them up and getting them out, but imagine the knee jerk responses and brainwashed references to Nazi Germany if such common sense was implemented.

NO...if anything...it's the one way to find out who and who not is here legally. It's hard to fix old lost paperwork. So....with new ID's....each person who has one has as much of a right to be here as anyone else.

I was fishing with my two oldest boys at a nearby creek. People who fish in state parks are required to buy a fishing license and have it showing at all times. A group of Mexican/Central Americans were fishing without the appropriate licenses and were carrying buckets of undersized fish. My oldest who always plays by the book said to me, "Dad, they are illegal fishermen. They don't have a license." I said, "They are undocumented fishermen. The only difference between them and us is that they don't have a license and we don't have any fish."

I was fishing with my two oldest boys at a nearby creek. People who fish in state parks are required to buy a fishing license and have it showing at all times. A group of Mexican/Central Americans were fishing without the appropriate licenses and were carrying buckets of undersized fish. My oldest who always plays by the book said to me, "Dad, they are illegal fishermen. They don't have a license." I said, "They are undocumented fishermen. The only difference between them and us is that they don't have a license and we don't have any fish."

How true is that????? I don't think every illegal immigrant working here is a criminal. Some are just doing what they have to do to feed their families. Maybe they needed the fish worse than you did. :p

But the whole fishing license thing shows that the only way to correct the illegal matters is to license it. If it takes a national ID..then ....so be it. I only hope this will come with a legal workers license for those who just want to work and catch some fish with their kids. They are of no threat to us.

Let me back that up by saying we once rented to a guy from Mexico. HE was legal....some of his family may not have been. This guy busted his butt working for Georgia Pacific to take care of his family. I've never respected anyone more.

There is obviously only one solution for us to be 100% totally safe from the barbarians at the gate..... but don't worry, it is already underway:

"make every home a prison"

How true is that????? I don't think every illegal immigrant working here is a criminal. Some are just doing what they have to do to feed their families. Maybe they needed the fish worse than you did. :p

But the whole fishing license thing shows that the only way to correct the illegal matters is to license it. If it takes a national ID..then ....so be it. I only hope this will come with a legal workers license for those who just want to work and catch some fish with their kids. They are of no threat to us.


Or the lesson may be that there are those that will obey the laws and those that will not. I paid $30 for the license so the state can fill up the creek with tasty trout. We caught 2 today but both were undersized and were let back in the creek. The "undocumented fishermen" did not pay, did not follow the law and walked away with baby fish that I and other law abiding fishermen paid for. The baby fish could have grown and had baby fish that would have grown, etc. But the "undocumented fishermen" walked away with the future.

Or the lesson may be that there are those that will obey the laws and those that will not. I paid $30 for the license so the state can fill up the creek with tasty trout. We caught 2 today but both were undersized and were let back in the creek. The "undocumented fishermen" did not pay, did not follow the law and walked away with baby fish that I and other law abiding fishermen paid for. The baby fish could have grown and had baby fish that would have grown, etc. But the "undocumented fishermen" walked away with the future.

You know what.....GREAT POINT! However, the only way to combat it is to have those mandatory license which will keep them from fishing unless they are here legally and qualify. This is why I have no problem with the National ID thing....SOMETHING has to be done....and I guess it's as good of solution as possible. I truly don't know how else it can be dealt with.

How about electronic dog collars for us all? That way if we cross any borders we're not supposed to, or catch too many fish, some government beaurocrat (maybe some sort of clerk, like the fine folks at the DMV or IRS) can just give us a little electric shock to let us know that we're being disobedient.

Just think how safe that would make us!

How about electronic dog collars for us all? That way if we cross any borders we're not supposed to, or catch too many fish, some government beaurocrat (maybe some sort of clerk, like the fine folks at the DMV or IRS) can just give us a little electric shock to let us know that we're being disobedient.

Just think how safe that would make us!

Oh GAWD....don't say that out loud. Someone in government may get another nifty idea!

We already have them...they're called credit cards.

I was fishing with my two oldest boys at a nearby creek. People who fish in state parks are required to buy a fishing license and have it showing at all times. A group of Mexican/Central Americans were fishing without the appropriate licenses and were carrying buckets of undersized fish. My oldest who always plays by the book said to me, "Dad, they are illegal fishermen. They don't have a license." I said, "They are undocumented fishermen. The only difference between them and us is that they don't have a license and we don't have any fish."

There's a better way to manage the lake. Have it owned by private citizens. They can charge people to fish there, which would be roughly equivelant to what the government is doing now. Only you can bet that a private company would make sure that no one walked away with all of the baby fish, because that makes the lake unfishable, and all their revenue would disappear.

With the lake in the hands of government, no one really cares about it, because no one owns it. Sure, you can pay park rangers to enforce the fishing licenses, but the beurocrats who manage them don't care what happens, because they know that their re-election doesn't depend on the success or failure of the parks department. The only role government should play in the the lake-fishing industry should be to enforce anti-trust laws to make sure that no single private entity takes control of every lake in your area.

Back on topic... even if we were to agree that fishing lecenses were a necessary thing, I still don't agree that national IDs are a necessary thing. The purpose of the fishing licenses is to protect the lake from overfishing. What's the purpose of national IDs? To protect the roads from overdriving? To protect the economy from overworking? Or to protect the government from over-freedom?