I don't even know where to begin. I'm so sad these last few days, at what is going on in this country, not only at the state-sanctioned murder that we all are witnessing, but also at the reaction of quite a few people.

A woman is being starved to death - something we wouldn't even do to a dog or cat, and even in light of all sorts of evidence that should send red flags up all over the place for any reasonable person, half the country seems to be in a bizarre blindness, and a strange eagerness to kill this woman.

If we have to be sure when convicting someone for a capital crime, that they are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, how is it that we can kill someone who has committed no crime, when there is AMPLE problems with the case, conflicts of interest, questions, doubts, no will, conflicting stories, etc.

Why do we treat death row inmates and animals far better than we are treating a disabled woman who has done nothing wrong?

For the first time since I don't know when.... I'm not very proud to be an American. In fact, I'm embarrassed. This is not what we are supposed to be known for, this is what fascist or communist countries are known for - killing people without their consent. How can we, as a superpower, and champion of human rights, say anything to countries like China next time they blatantly violate human rights? After things like Waco, Oklahoma City, and plenty of other cover-ups, and now the move towards legalization of euthanasia, why am I reminded of the NAZIs, and why is it that half the country is unconcerned with the direction we're heading in?

When you start devaluing certain types of people and deciding they are unworthy of life, then you devalue all human life. An unborn baby, Terri Schindler-Schiavo,and a full-grown, able-bodied person of normal intelligence ALL have the same value, because their value isn't what we arbitrarily place on them, it is inherent. They are all valuable in God's eyes, and that's all that really matters. So when we start with the unborn, and then to the terminally ill, and then to the mentally impaired, then to the handicapped, and on and on, you're going down a very slippery slope, and where does it end?

And what is crazy is that people aren't realizing that when the rights of others are taken away, yours might be next. That doesn't concern you?

I'm gonna get off my soap box and stop here for now. I'll probably add more later, and I might add some photos and other things to this thread.

Peace!
cindy

btw, of course this whole case can change at any time, so I'm hoping tomorrow (which is today, actually cause it's 3 am here) things turn around.

more later, and I'm gonna keep this thread locked for a while, until I'm done posting some stuff, cause I dont really want this to be a debate thread, there are lots of those we can debate on, if you want.

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I've been reading another site tonight, and there are so many great posts over there, a few of them need to be quoted. Well, a couple for now...



I thought America would wake up when 24 little children were burned to death in Waco because the federal government wanted to collect $200 in gun sales taxes. But America went back to sleep and even re-elected everyone who took part in this monsterous murder of innocents.
Now the government is killing a defenseless woman by starving her to death. The MSM is cheerleading the polls that say two-thirds of Americans approve. Whatever the judges say, is the way it will be. There is no mercy in the new Secular Stalag.

When will government put its boot on your neck? Maybe if you are very meek and bow very low and don't speak up they will leave you alone.
The sound you hear is George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Andy Jackson, Ronald Reagan and generations of dead US military rolling in their graves.




America has lost its way. We deserve whatever horrible fate befalls us. Don't look to America anymore for moral leadership. We cannot demonstrate it.

I wanted to share something... So this morning, after getting up and turning on the news, hoping something good had happened, I find out that the Supreme court turned down the appeal, and that things appear very bleak.... I couldn't have the tv on for very long, cause after watching for a few minutes (some talk show where euthanasia was the topic) I felt almost sick to my stomach, and just depressed and angry and frustrated. Especially frustrated with people out there, the ones who are like Zombies, just buying in to all the garbage and lies about Terri's case.

So I was feeling really sad and gloomy this morning.... I went in my room, and did the best thing to do at a time like that, I asked God to help me to make sense of all this stuff going on in this country... why does it seem that evil people get away with things all the time, why does there have to be so much evil, why can't You strike these people down with lightning or something, and I just prayed and asked God why it seems good loses... I know in the end what happens, but what about now, it's terrible that the most helpless, defenseless people are preyed on...and the evil perpetuators get away with it.

Then I felt really led to go to the Bible, so I got a Bible and did not flip through it or look at it, I just opened it right up to a page in the Old Testament. And this is the truth, it was opened straight to a chapter that so perfectly spoke to the exact things I just brought up to God.

It was Job 24, I'm going to just post the whole chapter.


Job 24

"Why does the Almighty not set times for judgment?
Why must those who know him look in vain for such days?

Men move boundary stones; they pasture flocks they have stolen.
They drive away the orphan's donkey and take the widow's ox in pledge.
They thrust the needy from the path and force all the poor of the land into hiding.

Like wild donkeys in the desert, the poor go about their labor of foraging food; the wasteland provides food for their children. They gather fodder in the fields and glean in the vineyards of the wicked.

Lacking clothes, they spend the night naked; they have nothing to cover themselves in the cold. They are drenched by mountain rains and hug the rocks for lack of shelter.

The fatherless child is snatched from the breast; the infant of the poor is seized for a debt.

Lacking clothes, they go about naked; they carry the sheaves, but still go hungry.

They crush olives among the terraces ; they tread the winepresses, yet suffer thirst. The groans of the dying rise from the city, and the souls of the wounded cry out for help.


But God charges no one with wrongdoing.

"There are those who rebel against the light, who do not know its ways
or stay in its paths. When daylight is gone, the murderer rises up
and kills the poor and needy; in the night he steals forth like a thief.

The eye of the adulterer watches for dusk; he thinks, 'No eye will see me,' and he keeps his face concealed.

In the dark, men break into houses, but by day they shut themselves in;
they want nothing to do with the light. For all of them, deep darkness is their morning ; they make friends with the terrors of darkness.

Yet they are foam on the surface of the water; their portion of the land is cursed, so that no one goes to the vineyards.

As heat and drought snatch away the melted snow, so the grave snatches away those who have sinned.

he womb forgets them, the worm feasts on them; evil men are no longer remembered but are broken like a tree.

They prey on the barren and childless woman, and to the widow show no kindness.



But God drags away the mighty by his power; though they become established, they have no assurance of life. He may let them rest in a feeling of security, but his eyes are on their ways.

For a little while they are exalted, and then they are gone; they are brought low and gathered up like all others; they are cut off like heads of grain.

"If this is not so, who can prove me false and reduce my words to nothing?"

Great chapter, Cindy.

Here's a thread I posted last month...

Brain-Damaged Woman Talks After 20 Years (http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71547)

Also, I also heard a woman recently on Sean Hannity talking about while she was seemingly non-responsive state like Terri, she could feel pain and feel when the feeding tube was inserted and removed and how she couldn't express the pain she was in. Maybe that was Kate Adamson that you linked to, I'm not sure, I didn't catch the name.

I wish you were around when we had our heated Roe v. Wade debate (http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70613&page=1&pp=20) which was essentially the usual suspects vs the rest of us. I kept pointing out how the other side had to dehumanize the victim to justify killing him/her. And I see a lot of the same dehumanization of Terri ("she's a vegetable", "she's already dead" BS)

A lot of people are going to have to answer for this travesty of justice.

Thanks, Alan... Keep up the good posting, I'm glad this site has you! :)

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Ralph Nader and Wesley J. Smith Say "Let Terri Live"
By: Ralph Nader and Wesley J. Smith
March 24, 2005


Consumer Advocate Ralph Nader and Discovery Institute Senior Fellow Wesley J. Smith, author of the award winning book Culture of Death: The Assault on Medical Ethics in America call upon the Florida Courts and Governor Jeb Bush to take any legal action available to let Terri Schiavo live.

“A profound injustice is being inflicted on Terri Schiavo,” Nader and Smith asserted today. “Worse, this slow death by dehydration is being imposed upon her under the color of law, in proceedings in which every benefit of the doubt—and there are many doubts in this case—has been given to her death, rather than her continued life.”

Among the many injustices in this case, Nader and Smith point to the following:

• The courts not only are refusing her tube feeding, but have ordered that no attempts be made to provide her water or food by mouth. Terri swallows her own saliva. Spoon feeding is not medical treatment. “This outrageous order proves that the courts are not merely permitting medical treatment to be withheld, it has ordered her to be made dead,” Nader and Smith assert.

• The medical and rehabilitation experts are split on whether Terri is in a persistent vegetative state or whether Terri can be improved with therapy. There is only one way to know for sure—permit the therapy. That is the only way to resolve all doubts.

• The court is imposing process over justice. After the first trial in this case, much evidence has been produced that should allow for a new trial—which was the point of the federal legislation. If this were a death penalty case, this evidence, this evidence would demand reconsideration. Yet, an innocent disabled woman is receiving less justice.

• The federal and state governments are spending billions on what we are told will become miracle medical cures for people with all sorts of degenerative conditions, including brain damage. If this is so, why not permit Terri’s parents to care for her in the hope that such cures are derived.

Benefits of doubts should be given to life, not hastened death. This case is rife with doubt. Justice demands that Terri be permitted to live.

------------------------------------


Wow, my respect for Nader just went up. It's a breath of fresh air to hear
from people with a conscience, wisdom and COMMON SENSE!!! God bless Nader and Smith. I want to buy Wesley Smith's book, from the little I've heard about him he sounds fantastic, and I fully agree with his views on where our society is heading.

I was quickly reading another site, and there are lots of great posts over there on this subject. Here are a few of them.



"The courts are so addicted to process that Terri could get up and dance a jig, and they'd still rule the same."



this one is in reply to a comment "I wonder if the Nazi party and their judicial friends have the champagne on ice already..."

champagne?!?!

I'd always guess they only drink the fresh blood of innocent victims ala Uncle Screwtape



Amazing how she can survive a week without food and water but goes into cardiac arrest simply by being bulemic.



HEALTHFUL DRINKS AND WARM MEALS SINCE THE ORDER-TO-MURDER-AN-INVALID BY JUDGE GREER

Murderer-At-Will Judge Greer 32
......................... Terri Shiavo 0
.......................... Lee Malvo 25
.......................... Scott Peterson 24


more later

more...


Don't be fooled, for the legal system this is not about Terri Schiavo. It is a foot stomping point about the supremacy of the legal system.

If when a judge, also known as a "Finder of Fact" speaks, everyone must obey. He must mindlessly be obeyed. Do not take notice of the man behind the screen. Do not take notice, even though it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that at best he did not consider all available evidence. Do not take notice, even though at worst he is colluding with the opposing sides, we have a problem.

The fact is the current legal system cares not one whit about justice. It is concerned with saving its place as the ultimate authority. That is why there is no trial de novo as called for in the congressional law. There is no way the system will allow question the judgment of a judge. No one cares that Terri Schiavo will die, except perhaps Michael Schiavo, Blind Greer and Felon Felos, they care, they want her dead, perhaps each for his own reasons.

The legal system does not care, not at all.

Do not be fooled, legal system cares not one whit about justice.

When it occurs, justice is only an unintentional and sometimes irritating byproduct of the legal system.

more comments from people.

At this time, I read in Fox News that Terri is bleeding from her tongue and her eyes, and that her skin is flaking.

This is what the misguided death cultists call "dying with dignity."

Terri is still hanging on.... amazing.

I want to say, my admiration and respect for Mel Gibson keeps going up. He spoke out on all this, and what he had to say was excellent, right on target. I love him!!! :nice:

There are some good people speaking out, including some liberals who I can respect, like Nat Hentoff, but beyond that, we lack any real leadership in this country. Where are our 'leaders'? We have none, the insane are running the asylum, so to speak, that is my view and I know there are lots of people who agree.