Aaaugh, it happened again, I just typed out a long post, and something happened to the computer and I lost it all. (maybe someone's trying to tell me something) :|

*sigh* Anyway, I'll try to re-write it.

As I've said many times on this site, I don't really like Bush, I'm not a registered Republican, and I'm still not sure about his true character (we all know that politicians often claim to be something they're not, to garner support from their voters)........ HOWEVER (you knew that was coming) ;) I am SO happy that Kerry didn't win, and I have been wanting to celebrate since last night, and I have been thanking God, because we have been doing a lot of praying over here, for the election, praying for God's will, and for the best candidate to win, and not just the president but for senators and congresspeople with the most integrity... and I don't know about you, but personally I don't think that the Democratic party, which we saw in the clinton era was totally corrupt, morally bankrupt, shameless, for abortion, gay marriage, more government, etc, etc.... is the party more in line with God, which was the main thing that we prayed for.

I'm not saying the GOP is blameless, far from it, but for me, #1 - even though I disagree with them on certain issues, I disagree with them less overall on the issues, and #2, I personally think that the Dems are so far gone, in the evil category, that almost anyone would be better in comparison, including the Republicans.

Alrighty, I'll put on my flame-proof suit right now... but I probably won't stick around here for too long, cause I have the rest of the day off, and I don't want to spend it inside all day. :|

I'm sorry if I was too blunt (forgive me!), and to the people who agreed with me.... :nice: :w00t: :p :ughug:


Thank you, Jesus!!!

Amen. I'm tired and I could use a vacation right about now. :D

Note: California is pretty much the same way you left it. A few more stinker props passed, other stinkers were stopped.

I'll give you a call tomorrow.

He's got the whole world in His hands. :)

I'm a christian, so I'd like to offer my sincere opinion and probably let you guys know a little about me and my positions: I'm not pro-abortion. I would never ask a woman I got pregnant to have an abortion. I think that there should be provisions that remain always; health reasons, etc I also think if abortion was banned, desperate women would have their lives, and the unborn, at stake by doing back alley abortions in the back of a jiffy lube. I leave the door open for choice, but with the sincerest need for people to not have to make that choice.

Gays: I don't see them as a big evil. Nature is perfectly imperfect. Their sexual orientations don't lend them to procreation, but neither does a person born with reproductive inabilities. It's a rights issue. They are too small a portion of the population to really "destroy civilization with marriage" Compassion and understanding for the outcasts of society is a Christian virtue in my book. Lambasting those who are different isn't. The GOP used this minor issue to rile up their base. It's sad.

Secondly, where does God endorse smaller government? Just asking.


Well, as a Christian, my emphasis is not on these minor, petty, exploitated culture wars. My emphasis is on poverty, war, and nuclear weapons. I readily disagree with an economic system, and its defenders, that is defended and based on a "profit motive" I do read the bible you sent me, Cindy. One of the things emphasized is understanding how and what this lust for money does to an individual and society around him/her. In fact, that's a key theme. I believe in an economic system that plans and serves the interest of people first, not profit. As a coin phrase spin-off, I'd say it's the prophet motive.

Well, those are my thoughts. I sought to, and hoped to present them in a polite manner. Think of them what you may. I just don't think that you could say "thank you Jesus" when really weighing the enormous brutality of war.

ROFL yes, Jesus loves Bush. You american born-again protestants are all insane.

I also think if abortion was banned, desperate women would have their lives, and the unborn, at stake by doing back alley abortions in the back of a jiffy lube.

And the understatement of the year award goes to, (drum roll), Big Gabe! (much applause)

Is'nt the whole point of an abortion to kill the unborn anyway?

Yay for the return of multiquote!

Amen. I'm tired and I could use a vacation right about now. :D

Note: California is pretty much the same way you left it. A few more stinker props passed, other stinkers were stopped.

I'll give you a call tomorrow.

Thanks for holding down the fort. :P I'm disappointed that CA was a blue state, but at the same time the breakdown wasn't as bad as people probably assume it to be (I always knew that other than SF and LA, California is not the nutty/fruity state the naysayers think we are.) ;)

He's got the whole world in His hands. :)

Yup! I haven't heard that song in ages, thanks for bringing it to mind! :p


Well, as a Christian, my emphasis is not on these minor, petty, exploitated culture wars. My emphasis is on poverty, war, and nuclear weapons. I readily disagree with an economic system, and its defenders, that is defended and based on a "profit motive" I do read the bible you sent me, Cindy. One of the things emphasized is understanding how and what this lust for money does to an individual and society around him/her. In fact, that's a key theme. I believe in an economic system that plans and serves the interest of people first, not profit. As a coin phrase spin-off, I'd say it's the prophet motive.

Well, those are my thoughts. I sought to, and hoped to present them in a polite manner. Think of them what you may. I just don't think that you could say "thank you Jesus" when really weighing the enormous brutality of war.

Hi Gabe and thank you, you did present your views in a polite, respectful way, I appreciate that. ;) I'm glad that you are not pro-abortion, but I do disagree with the notion that it should remain legal only because if it wasn't women would do it in a 'back-alley' way. If it is murder, then it shouldn't be made 'safe', just as you wouldn't legalize rape to make it more 'safe'.... And also something shouldn't remain legal only because some think people will still do it.... people still murder, rob, etc, but that doesn't mean those things should be made legal, for that reason... it's the same principle.

About gays. Please don't misquote me, I never said that gays were a big evil, and I am not in support of lambasting gays, or hating... that is definitely not what I am for. As Christians, we should look at everyone through God's eyes, and I believe that God (since God is love) loves gays, just as He loves you and I, but that doesn't mean that homosexuality and gay marriage is approved of or ok. I didn't want to get into a debate on this now, but I did want to clarify that point.

About the other things you said, it just comes down to seeing things differently. I believe that the economic system that you support just keeps people down, it keeps them poor, maybe the masses of people are 'equal', but equally poor and miserable, while the people running things in communist/socialist countries live like kings. To me, that is unjust, I would rather have some economic inequality but with the chance for moving up, than have an even distribution of poverty and misery. And Gabe, maybe we can talk more about this later (although I don't have any IM's anymore), but I have learned more since being here.... 3 of my roommates are from Korea, and they have talked to me about what life is like in North Korea, and it is much much worse than I had imagined. It is really, really bad, worse than most people think, and personally I believe that that system of govermnment (communism) is from the enemy, not God. But again, I didn't plan on getting into a big debate on this today.

ROFL yes, Jesus loves Bush. You american born-again protestants are all insane.

Jesus loving someone isn't the same as approving of all of that person's actions, and I would never claim that Jesus approved of all of Dubya's actions. Would I claim that Jesus loves him? I think he does, and I think He loves Kerry too. You can disagree, but if Jesus didn't love people who have done wrong, then do you think that He didn't willingly die for the redemption of all of us?

I do disagree with the notion that it should remain legal only because if it wasn't women would do it in a 'back-alley' way. If it is murder, then it shouldn't be made 'safe', just as you wouldn't legalize rape to make it more 'safe'..... And also something shouldn't remain legal only because some think people will still do it.... people still murder, rob, etc, but that doesn't mean those things should be made legal, for that reason... it's the same principle.

Yes, these views have gone through my mind endless times. I have weighed them heavily.

As Christians, we should look at everyone through God's eyes, and I believe that God (since God is love) loves gays, just as He loves you and I, but that doesn't mean that homosexuality and gay marriage is approved of or ok. I didn't want to get into a debate on this now, but I did want to clarify that point.

Point clarified and well taken. There are some christians who don't see things this way and are indeed guilty of bigotry and hatred. Well, I'll reiterate my point: I think gays who love each other and want to be entitled to the same civil rights as married couples is a-ok. I wouldn't force a church to perform same-sex marriages. They can hold standards as they see fit. In the public, civic realm, I think giving those couples equal rights is the compassionate and right thing to do.

About the other things you said, it just comes down to seeing things differently. I believe that the economic system that you support just keeps people down, it keeps them poor, maybe the masses of people are 'equal', but equally poor and miserable

Third World nations can hardly prosper under any system. That's where we have seen the majority of alternatives take place. I do not want massive immiseration. I want a humane orientated economic system that has the ability to provide well being for the masses.

the people running things in communist/socialist countries live like kings.

Absolutely. That's the failure of Leninism, Stalinism, and Maoism. State capitalism + b-cratic croonies, etc.

To me, that is unjust, I would rather have some economic inequality but with the chance for moving up, then have an even distribution of poverty and misery.

Neither of those choices (outcomes) appeal to me. Neither are condusive to freedom.

3 of my roommates are from Korea, and they have talked to me about what life is like in North Korea, and it is much much worse than I had imagined. It is really, really bad, worse than most people think, and personally I believe that that system of govermnment (communism) is from the enemy, not God.

I have never defended the North Korean system. It is a miserable failure. I am a bit hesistant to declare things Satanic. That's what you are alluding to. I'm pretty much in a political vacuum myself these days. You seem to have justified a lacklaster model by contrasting it to worse models. I don't want to do that.


Cindy, I'll stop here. I usually challenge or offer alternative positions in your journal ( which honestly, most people do not ) You have always treated me with the upmost civility. Therefore, I return such to you. I just get the feeling of derailing after a couple replies
;)

Jesus loving someone isn't the same as approving of all of that person's actions, and I would never claim that Jesus approved of all of Dubya's actions. Would I claim that Jesus loves him? I think he does, and I think He loves Kerry too. You can disagree, but if Jesus didn't love people who have done wrong, then do you think that He didn't willingly die for the redemption of all of us?


Good answer.

Secondly, where does God endorse smaller government? Just asking.

Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me."

Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me."

Well, if consider the state to be another god before him, BC said smaller government, which would mean a smaller god before him, which would still be a trasgression.

I could label anything I considered bad "a god before him" such as say capitalism, and proceed from that.

In short, I consider that answer non-persuasive.


*Also, to those christians who think Bush is moral and has values, just think of war and all those daisy cutters as instruments of really, really, really, really late term abortions. ;) If you want to play petty Culture Wars, I'm ready.

:lol:

:confused: