http://tinyurl.com/yuh5t
Kerry no hero in ex-crewman's eyes
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff, 3/11/2004

Steven Michael Gardner served side by side with John Forbes Kerry in Vietnam, was wounded under Kerry's command, and was manning twin .50-caliber machine guns on a night that has forever haunted Kerry -- the night his crew killed a young ..........

so he runs at the sight of blood. whats the big surprise?

so he runs at the sight of blood. whats the big surprise?

Redline did you read the article? He gave the guy sh*t for firing without orders. Seems to me Kerry had more control than this crewman. But thats kind of normal he is a republican.

:rolleyes: ]

Gardner had looked down and saw blood in the gun tub, dripping over the boxes of bullets stored on the floor. After the momentary shock, he recalled, Gardner realized his injury was "no big deal" and kept on firing. But Gardner said that when Kerry learned of the wound, he ordered the boat turned around to get medical attention for his gunner. Gardner argued that the retreat was unnecessary and worried that leaving the scene might endanger others on the mission. "I said, Lieutenant Kerry, I'm fine, nothing's wrong, I got a little flesh wound here.' But [Kerry] was already backing out of the canal, getting ready to run for it," Gardner said.

Seems to me that was a resonable thing to do for Kerry. But like Gardner it appears that politics have more to do with your attitude than anything else.

And if Kerry had ignored the man's wounds it would be fodder for the anti-Kerry forces to string him up as a callous and uncaring commander.

If he turns to seek help, he's a coward running from the sight of blood.

If he ignores the wound it'd be further proof he didn't care about the other troops there, including those in his own unit.

:rolleyes:

it was a cowardly thing to do that possibly endangered others involved. Beyond that, I personally couldn't give a crap. He's a looser as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know how it worked in Vietnam, but in the military I serve in an enlisted crewmember doesn't have the privilege of telling his Officer-In-Charge who will and will not receive medical attention, even when it pertains to his own injuries. I've seen E3's forced to go see medical after getting aircraft soap in their eyes.

So one of Kerry's subordinates was injured and Kerry re-directed the boat in order to receive medical attention for him, and that makes him a coward?

Redline: "it was a cowardly thing to do that possibly endangered others involved."

How do you know this? How do you know it endangered others? What if he had stayed and the guy really was seriously injured and died or lost a limb? Then you people would be attacking him because he didn't seek help for a wounded man.

Ed, weren't you a Naval officer? You should know better. How many of you have had to make decisions involving the life of another man in a combat sitation as a commanding officer in charge of 10 guys? I haven't and I wouldn't want to be, and until you've been there I don't think you have any right to judge, especially since you have no idea what was actually happening in that situation.

It's hard to believe that people who CLAIM to be pro-military would actually try to impugn a former officer for going to receive medical attention for one of his men. Why? Because he defied the orders of Joe E-2?

I guess if the guy who got injured was capable of making determinations about when and where that crew fought or sought help then he would have been in charge of the boat and not Kerry.

But by all means, continue dredging up stories like this. I'm sure the Bush campaign team is dying to publicly sort through the various combat missions that Kerry was involved in and received all those awards for, to reinforce to the public all the terrible things Kerry did (depsite his numerous medals and awards) while Bush bravely and nobly funneled 12 packs in texas and worked for his uncle's congressional campaign.

Originally posted by drunken hearted man But by all means, continue dredging up stories like this.

It may well just be a "story'. Who give a f. Geeshh..most of you Neo-Coms would protect the guy if someone said he pooped in his panties.

The way I read it, they were involved in some kind of combined action...meaning they weren't the only troops involved...and like the guy in the story says, for whatever bushismness, Kerry took the opportunity to run. The other "buds" confirm this.

What would this guy have done after 9/11?

yeah...no one knows...

I was in the military and saw men injured although I never was in any combat situation. I do however have EMT training and if the individual had lost enough blood to have "blood in the gun tub, dripping over the boxes of bullets stored on the floor" I would be getting that individual to medical treatment. One thing I learned in training was there is no such thing as a "flesh wound". That is something out of your John Wayne movies.

I wonder how many BS stories the conservatives ( I hate that neo-anything BS) are going to invent. It is a waste of time to try and impune a highly decorated sailor with charges of cowardice. In trying to do so you just end up looking like a petty idiot.

Originally posted by RedLine99


It may well just be a "story'. Who give a f. Geeshh..most of you Neo-Coms would protect the guy if someone said he pooped in his panties.



haha, yeah well I'm just informing you how it is in the military. It's easy to sit behind your monitor and talk about someone who was in charge of 10 or 15 souls in a combat situation and what a brave hero like you would have done in his place. As far as I can tell he did nothing wrong except perhaps be overly cautious on the side of the safety of one of his men. As for me defending him I've done no such thing, I don't like the guy's politics at all, I'm just defending his actions in this one isolated case from what I know of the situation.

Originally posted by RedLine99

What would this guy have done after 9/11?

yeah...no one knows...



Well like you said no one knows...it's like asking what Bush would have done if he were in a combat situation, know one really knows because he avoided actually having to fight at all costs, he was busy sniffing coke and getting DUI's and othwerwise being a worthless preppie @sshole.

Originally posted by drunken hearted man what a brave hero like you would have done in his place..

give me a friggin break. you guys are nothing but a bunch of keyboard REMF's who have no clue what its like to havfe your life depend on EVERYONE doing there job.

Yeah, Kerry will never get my vote.

And I sure as hell don't feel like telling war stories to you children:rolleyes:

Originally posted by RedLine99


give me a friggin break. you guys are nothing but a bunch of keyboard REMF's who have no clue what its like to havfe your life depend on EVERYONE doing there job.

Yeah, Kerry will never get my vote.

And I sure as hell don't feel like telling war stories to you children:rolleyes:


So Bush is then? I just find it odd that people will think so lowly of one of the elitist politicians like Kerry but then turn around and vote for part of the Bush dynasty..:scratch:

Originally posted by Corporate Avenger



So Bush is then? I just find it odd that people will think so lowly of one of the elitist politicians like Kerry but then turn around and vote for part of the Bush dynasty..:scratch:

yeah. it is weird from that perpective, but that will not change until someone better steps up to the plate.

Guess we'll have to see what hits us the week before the election.

seems to have worked in Spain.

and fyi - i'm a registered Independent. I may just stay home.