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suicidalmarchingband
03-09-2004, 09:10 PM
http://www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish/racism.gif


During the nineteenth century theories of race were advanced both by the scientific community and in the popular daily and periodical press. Even before Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859, the old concept of the great chain of being, marking the gradations of mankind, was being subjected to a new scientific racism. The "science "of phrenology purported to demonstrate that the structure of the skull, especially the jaw formation and facial angles, revealed the position of various races on the evolutionary scale, and a debate raged on whether there had been one creation for all mankind (monogenism) or several (polygenism). "To a large extent, the story of racial science in Britain between 1800 and 1850," Nancy Stepan writes "is the story of desperate efforts to rebut polygenism and the eventual acceptance of popular quasi-polygenist prejudices in the language of science" (30). Polygenists stressed the unequal nature of the various creations and this theory mingled with general evolutionary theories and concepts of arrested development to create an atmosphere congenial to racial stereotyping.

In much of the pseudo-scientific literature of the day the Irish were held to be inferior, an example of a lower evolutionary form, closer to the apes than their "superiors", the Anglo-Saxons . Cartoons in Punch portrayed the Irish as having bestial, ape-like or demonic features and the Irishman, (especially the political radical) was invariably given a long or prognathous jaw, the stigmata to the phrenologists of a lower evolutionary order, degeneracy, or criminality. Thus John Beddoe, who later became the President of the Anthropological Institute (1889-1891), wrote in his Races of Britain (1862) that all men of genius were orthognathous (less prominent jaw bones) while the Irish and the Welsh were prognathous and that the Celt was closely related to Cromagnon man, who, in turn, was linked, according to Beddoe, to the "Africanoid". The position of the Celt in Beddoe's "Index of Nigrescence" was very different from that of the Anglo-Saxon. These ideas were not confined to a lunatic fringe of the scientific community, for although they never won over the mainstream of British scientists they were disseminated broadly and it was even hinted that the Irish might be the elusive missing link! Certainly the "ape-like" Celt became something of an malevolent cliche of Victorian racism. Thus Charles Kingsley could write

I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw [in Ireland] . . . I don't believe they are our fault. . . . But to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black, one would not feel it so much. . . ."
(Charles Kingsley in a letter to his wife, quoted in L.P. Curtis, Anglo-Saxons and Celts, p.84).

Even seemingly complimentary generalizations about the Irish national character could, in the Victorian context, be damaging to the Celt. Thus, following the work of Ernest Renan's La Poésie des Races Celtiques (1854), it was broadly argued that the Celt was poetic, light-hearted and imaginative, highly emotional, playful, passionate, and sentimental. But these were characteristics the Victorians also associated with children. Thus the Irish were "immature" and in need of guidance by others, more highly developed than themselves. Irish "emotion" was contrasted, unfavorably, with English "reason", Irish "femininity" with English "masculine" virtues, Irish "poetic" attributes with English "pragmatism". These were all arguments which conveniently supported British rule in Ireland.

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/race/Racism.html


http://www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish/scientific.gif

"Scientific Racism" from an American magazine, Harper’s Weekly , shows that the Irish are similar to Negroes, and should be extinct!

http://www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish/unit_2.html


http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleries/histories/irish/images/PRO-Irish-Frankenstein.jpg

The Irish Frankenstein Punch 20 May 1882

The Anthropological Review and Journal of 1866 claimed that "Gaelic man" was characterised by "his bulging jaw and lower part of the face, retreating chin and forehead, large mouth and thick lips, great distance between nose and mouth, upturned nose, prominent cheekbones, sunken eyes, projecting eyebrows, narrow elongated skull and protruding ears". This sort of "scientific" racism was not uncommon in the nineteenth century and was also directed against Jewish and African people. "Without intending offence", stated an article on the London Irish in Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine of July 1901, "we would point to this common feature in the Hibernian and Negro idiosyncrasy, that a dull manhood follows upon a youth of the highest promise". This "no offence, but -" introductory remark always heralds a statement that will be offensive and is one commonly experienced by migrant groups.

http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleries/histories/irish/settling/racism_prejudice_1.htm

Interview with the author of How the Irish Became White.

What my book is about is how an earlier group of immigrants, the Catholic Irish--the first non-Protestant, non-Anglo group of European immigrants to arrive, at the beginning of the 19th century, around the period when industrialization was beginning to take place--learned the American racial set-up and found their place in it.

When I say that the Irish "became" white what I hark back to is that in Ireland the Catholics were victims of a kind of discrimination which in many respects was parallel and analogous to what we, in the United States, call racial discrimination-although there's no visible, physical type difference between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland. Notwithstanding this, if there were any people who were racially oppressed in Ireland it was the Catholics, who then came to the United States and found a new situation in which there was a color line--something they weren't familiar with, something they had no experience with. It was something they had to learn. They had to learn what it meant, how it operated, and how to find their own place in it.

So what I'm really talking about is how the Irish went from being members of an oppressed race in Ireland to being members of an oppressing race in the United States. The period that the book covers begins in the 1790s and closes in 1877, but the real heart of the book is the 1830s and 1840s, when I think the decisive elements fell into place.

http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/articles/jan97postel.htm

Johnson
03-09-2004, 09:17 PM
Irish have been bad for America.

John Kerry and Ted Kennedy come to mind.

suicidalmarchingband
03-09-2004, 09:27 PM
Irish have been bad for America.

John Kerry and Ted Kennedy come to mind.

I guess you could add Fade and Jat to that list as well.
My apologies

Johnson
03-09-2004, 09:36 PM
JAT's italian and Fade's scottish/austrian.

suicidalmarchingband
03-09-2004, 09:54 PM
Fade is "celtic" nonetheless, or so he would like to think.

Jat, I hadn't realised he was one of those "oily, dark-skinned, lawless, mediterranean lesser-breeds." God. He's hardly white at all.*

;)




*Disclaimer: I don't really believe that sh*t of course

Potyondi
03-09-2004, 09:57 PM
Don't you have a potato to grow or something to steal? :confused:

SpabSFW
03-09-2004, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Johnson
Irish have been bad for America.

John Kerry and Ted Kennedy come to mind.

Kerry isn't Irish, friendo.

suicidalmarchingband
03-09-2004, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Potyondi
Don't you have a potato to grow or something or steal? :confused:

What?

Potyondi
03-09-2004, 10:16 PM
A dangerous toy. This toy is being made for the extreme priority the good looks. The little part which suffocates when the sharp part which gets hurt is swallowed is contained generously. Only the person who can take responsibility by itself is to play.

:mad:

suicidalmarchingband
03-09-2004, 10:35 PM
Care to be a little less enigmatic...

...or somewhat more coherent, perhaps?

Johnson
03-10-2004, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by SpabSFW


Kerry isn't Irish, friendo.


What is he?

SpabSFW
03-10-2004, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Johnson



What is he?

Not sure. Just that he's not Irish according to the IAUC (Irish American Unity Conference).

Potyondi
03-10-2004, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by suicidalmarchingband
Care to be a little less enigmatic...

...or somewhat more coherent, perhaps?
Huh? What? Are you kidding? Are you pulling my legs till my ears don't work? Let me get this straight, so I can laugh until I get old and die. You want *me* to be a little less enigmatic? Right? Huh?

You know what? It's my fault. It truly is. See, I should have checked the mirror before I left the house this morning, because I obviously have the word "dork" stenciled on my forehead.

But, listen - if the universe collapses and I decide that dignity isn't as important as... starving, then I'll think about it. Yeah, right. Hahaha.

:P:nonono::eek3::drool:

suicidalmarchingband
03-10-2004, 04:23 AM
Fa...ir....en....ou....gh....aaass.....f
a....r......a.....s..i.....t....g..o.e.......s
....b..u.........t..........w.h...a.....t.....i.
d..o...n...t........ge......t......i..s.w..h..
e...th.........e...r..u...r......s.......e.r...
.i...o....u...s.............o.r..............n..
......o...

Potyondi
03-10-2004, 05:14 AM
http://www.thebuzz.net/_borders/mrpot.jpg

potato
potato or white potato, common name for a perennial plant (Solanum tuberosum) of the family Solanaceae (nightshade family) and for its swollen underground stem, a tuber, which is one of the most widely used vegetables in Western temperate climates. The plant is probably native to the Andes, where it was cultivated by the Incas. In pre-Columbian times its culture spread widely among Native Americans, for whom it was a staple food. Its history is difficult to trace, partly because the name potato was also used by early writers for the sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas) and for other unrelated plants. Spanish explorers are believed to have brought it in the 16th cent. from Peru to Spain, whence it spread N and W throughout Europe. It was brought to North America by European settlers probably c.1600; thus, like the closely related tomato, it is a reintroduced food plant in the New World. The potato was first accepted as a large-scale crop in the British Isles. It became the major food in Ireland during the 18th cent. and is hence often called Irish potato to distinguish it from the sweet potato. Ireland was so dependent on the potato that the failure (resulting from blight) of the 1845–46 crop caused a famine resulting in widespread disease, death, and emigration. The potato was also important to the course of history in the 20th cent. in Europe, especially in Germany, where it kept the country alive during two world wars. With its high carbohydrate content, the potato is today a primary food of Western peoples, as well as a source of starch, flour, alcohol, dextrin, and fodder (chiefly in Europe, where more is used for this purpose than for human consumption). It grows best in a cool, moist climate; in the United States mostly in Maine and Idaho. Germany, Russia, and Poland are the greatest potato-producing countries of Europe. Potatoes are usually propagated by planting pieces of the tubers that bear two or three “eyes,” the buds of the underground stems. The plant is sensitive to frost, is subject to certain fungus and virus diseases (e.g., mosaic, wilt, and blight), and is attacked by several insect pests, especially the potato beetle. Nutritionally, the potato is high in carbohydrates and a good source of protein, vitamin C, the B vitamins, potassium, phosphorus, and iron. Most of the minerals and protein are concentrated in a thin layer beneath the skin, and the skin itself is a source of food fiber; health authorities therefore recommend cooking and eating it unpeeled. Potatoes are classified in the division Magnoliophyta, class Magnoliopsida, order Polemoniales, family Solanaceae.

IFF
03-10-2004, 05:26 AM
the people who came to these racist theories are just jealous of the Irish person's god like features and tried to discourage the women from falling for god like people i.e. the irish people :D

Originally posted by Johnson



What is he?

John Kerry is Jewish. though he only found out a few years ago.

SpabSFW
03-10-2004, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by IFF
the people who came to these racist theories are just jealous of the Irish person's god like features and tried to discourage the women from falling for god like people i.e. the irish people :D



Muise. Tá an ceart agat! (Indeed. You are right!)

;)

hehheh

suicidalmarchingband
03-10-2004, 05:35 AM
Originally posted by Potyondi
http://www.thebuzz.net/_borders/mrpot.jpg

potato
potato or white potato, common name for a perennial plant (Solanum tuberosum) of the family Solanaceae (nightshade family) and for its swollen underground stem, a tuber, which is one of the most widely used vegetables in Western temperate climates. The plant is probably native to the Andes, where it was cultivated by the Incas. In pre-Columbian times its culture spread widely among Native Americans, for whom it was a staple food. Its history is difficult to trace, partly because the name potato was also used by early writers for the sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas) and for other unrelated plants. Spanish explorers are believed to have brought it in the 16th cent. from Peru to Spain, whence it spread N and W throughout Europe. It was brought to North America by European settlers probably c.1600; thus, like the closely related tomato, it is a reintroduced food plant in the New World. The potato was first accepted as a large-scale crop in the British Isles. It became the major food in Ireland during the 18th cent. and is hence often called Irish potato to distinguish it from the sweet potato. Ireland was so dependent on the potato that the failure (resulting from blight) of the 1845–46 crop caused a famine resulting in widespread disease, death, and emigration. The potato was also important to the course of history in the 20th cent. in Europe, especially in Germany, where it kept the country alive during two world wars. With its high carbohydrate content, the potato is today a primary food of Western peoples, as well as a source of starch, flour, alcohol, dextrin, and fodder (chiefly in Europe, where more is used for this purpose than for human consumption). It grows best in a cool, moist climate; in the United States mostly in Maine and Idaho. Germany, Russia, and Poland are the greatest potato-producing countries of Europe. Potatoes are usually propagated by planting pieces of the tubers that bear two or three “eyes,” the buds of the underground stems. The plant is sensitive to frost, is subject to certain fungus and virus diseases (e.g., mosaic, wilt, and blight), and is attacked by several insect pests, especially the potato beetle. Nutritionally, the potato is high in carbohydrates and a good source of protein, vitamin C, the B vitamins, potassium, phosphorus, and iron. Most of the minerals and protein are concentrated in a thin layer beneath the skin, and the skin itself is a source of food fiber; health authorities therefore recommend cooking and eating it unpeeled. Potatoes are classified in the division Magnoliophyta, class Magnoliopsida, order Polemoniales, family Solanaceae.

d'ever ryad knut hamson...

:rofl:

ah we do love de spuds...

...notafamine thread...
...notananti-britishthread...
...notevenapoorIrishthread...
...itsa4athread.........

SpabSFW
03-10-2004, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by IFF
John Kerry is Jewish. though he only found out a few years ago.

It's kind of weird, Kerry/Boston/Catholic, but as I mentioned I heard he wasn't through my egroups and I heard that too.

His bio sayz:

"John Kerry was born on December 11, 1943 at Fitzsimons Military Hospital in Denver, Colorado, where his father, Richard, who had volunteered to fly DC-3's in the Army Air Corps in World War II, was recovering from a bout with tuberculosis. Not long after Sen. Kerry's birth, his family returned home to Massachusetts. John Kerry was raised in the Catholic faith and continues to be an active member of the Catholic church."

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/

But no reference to his background beyond that.

IFF
03-10-2004, 05:56 AM
Originally posted by SpabSFW


It's kind of weird, Kerry/Boston/Catholic, but as I mentioned I heard he wasn't through my egroups and I heard that too.

His bio sayz:

"John Kerry was born on December 11, 1943 at Fitzsimons Military Hospital in Denver, Colorado, where his father, Richard, who had volunteered to fly DC-3's in the Army Air Corps in World War II, was recovering from a bout with tuberculosis. Not long after Sen. Kerry's birth, his family returned home to Massachusetts. John Kerry was raised in the Catholic faith and continues to be an active member of the Catholic church."

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/

But no reference to his background beyond that.

i think his parents or grandparents where originally from Germany and then when they were emigrated, they decided to change their names to fit in better so the male got out a mapo of irieland and picked one of the place names there

there's been alot said about this in the irish press

SpabSFW
03-10-2004, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by IFF


i think his parents or grandparents where originally from Germany and then when they were emigrated, they decided to change their names to fit in better so the male got out a mapo of irieland and picked one of the place names there

there's been alot said about this in the irish press

Thx IFF, I tried to find a source and couldn't. This is the most detail I've heard.

As much Irish newz as I read, how did I miss it? :doh: LOLOL

lilnymph
03-10-2004, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by SpabSFW


Thx IFF, I tried to find a source and couldn't. This is the most detail I've heard.

As much Irish newz as I read, how did I miss it? :doh: LOLOL

Probably because it wasn't saying how evil the english are :p

hehe

hugs

lilnymph

SpabSFW
03-10-2004, 06:04 AM
Originally posted by suicidalmarchingband
Thus, following the work of Ernest Renan's La Poésie des Races Celtiques (1854), it was broadly argued that the Celt was poetic, light-hearted and imaginative, highly emotional, playful, passionate, and sentimental.


Nice list of why Irish are hot, actually. :cool:

SpabSFW
03-10-2004, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by lilnymph


Probably because it wasn't saying how evil the english are :p

hehe

hugs

lilnymph

:lol: :lol: Bhuel sin fior. (Well, that's true~)

I do like britcoms, does that help? My favorites are Black Adder and Red Dwarf. :)

lilnymph
03-10-2004, 06:08 AM
hehe they are both great :) I love quite a few of our british comedies :)

hugs

lilnymph

Dreamscapist
03-11-2004, 12:37 PM
The passion, poetry and music of the Irish (and Welsh) have served America well, making up the most lyrical part of its national soul. And when these Celts bred with the Cherokee, the Choctaw and the Apache, those both fierce and harmonious, the noble Poet Warriors came to be, and the land welcomed its reigning lords and lovers.

Criminal
03-11-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Johnson
Irish have been bad for America.

John Kerry and Ted Kennedy come to mind.
William F Buckley and Pat Buchannon came to mind for me.

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