ChaoticThoughts
02-16-2002, 03:32 AM
My friend renamed himself Jesus Freak, and we had a chat. Just for some background history: To rebel against his parents, he was listening to rap like crazy, although he is a white small town boy. And he totally freaked when he got stoned. Now he only listens to chistian rock...you get the idea. And he is in a philosophy class, that talks about religion, etc.
We continued from an earlier chat:
Travis says: Dude, try buddhist beliefs.
Jesus Freak says: that's what we studied last week in phil140/geog100 LC. I don't think so
Travis says: y not?
Jesus Freak says: because if i were 2 believe what they belive there is no way i would be the way i am right now. It had 2 have taken a power greater than me 4 my life 2 change this much.
Travis says: so, your parents already got to you?
Jesus Freak says: no
Travis says: :p
Jesus Freak says: this had nothing 2 do with my parents. the reason I was the way i was, was because of my parents pushing religeon on me.
Travis says: And you think you are no longer a result from your parents influence?
Jesus Freak says: huh?
Travis says: you act as if your parents influence caused you to rebel. But now your choice has no association with your parents.
Jesus Freak says: okay so maybe there is some influence there (who isn't at least a little influnced by their parents).
Travis says: yes, but becuase of the dominating influence, you have made a choice without really any experience to base it on.
Jesus Freak says: I did have an experience though. call me crazy (i call my self crazy sometimes 4 believing this), but when I was smoking weed a couple times, it was like God opened my eyes and showed me the meaning to life. I felt pure goodness and pure evil........ i know, i'm crazy but it's true
Jesus Freak says: maybe what i believe in is all false and this is nothing after death and no god. if that'
Travis says: I know what it is like being high. Believe me. And the first experiences of being high are much more extreme than normal. Your mind is altered for some time, it can be "like" a religious experience.
Jesus Freak says: its true i'll have lived a decent life and have been a good person. but If God is real and the bible is true. OH BOY!!!!
Travis says: so you would limit your entire life for the chance of a reward and/or punishment? If there is a god, do you not think it would want us to just live our lives, without restrictions and rules to follow?
Jesus Freak says: the rules in the bible are 4 our good. they are design by God so we can have a better relationship with him. the reason they don't make sense is because they aren't based on this world. They are based on spiritual thing that don't make sense if you look at them from our point of view. If you really think about it religeon doesn't make sense by our standard so there is any way to philosifiz
Jesus Freak says: e our way 2 and understanding of it. that way it's called a "faith"
Travis says: Lets see: Yes, there are for our good, but sometime laws will not improve matters, sometimes they make things worse.
Jesus Freak says: so there is NOT any way to philosifize our way 2 and understanding of it.
Travis says: Second- the laws were not written by god, they are written by dead priests, with their own motives
Jesus Freak says: BUT worse by our standards
Travis says: And because these are outdated, and hard to understand, some can easily use the same words for holy wars and to cause others pain
Jesus Freak says: if a person belives in the bible and God (faith). they will believe it when the bible says that it is written by God and inerrent.
Travis says: In fact, religion is only ancient politics. Enabling those in power to control the common man, by rewarding or punishing him, in the after-life
Jesus Freak says: maybe. but that's why it's called a FAITH. because a person by believe even when things don't make sense or aren't explainable (in our human term).
Travis says: So, if I was to "believe" the world is flat, is it? You can believe what you want, but what is true canbe different.
Jesus Freak says: u can't philosifize ur way to an understanding of the supernatural.
Travis says: No, but nobody can claim they know what there is and is not in the supposed afterlife.
Jesus Freak says: u can't philosifize ur way to a COMPLEAT understanding of the supernatural.
Travis says: But people feel more comfortable when thay share beliefs, and are in groups. If I was in a group of people who believed in the same thing, I would feel safe and secure. And becuase we do not know what is going to happen, we feel unsafe, and unsecure. That is why religion is around.
Jesus Freak says: I wouldn't and did't feel unsafe, and unsecure without God. I just have 2 believe in him (FAITH in unseeable stuff) because of the weird stuff that only supernaturally could have happened in my life .
Travis says: Do you mean there is unexplain events in your life, and only the exsistance of god could explian it?
Jesus Freak says: yeah i guess kinda. what i mean is if i were to ignore the experiences in my life, such as when i when i compleatly baked and life made total sense with God involved (you'd have to have experienced this 2 understand what i mean). Then I could go on and live my life as if there were no God, but..........with these experiences and changes (1st came the experience, then the faith that the bible is true, and then the changes) in my life (such as stopping listening to music with "bad" words, not commiting suicide, and quitting looking at porn. amoung other thing) there is no way i would have stopped these things aside from an act of God. so this proves to ME that God is real.........It probably won't change anybody elses mind though because they did NOT experience it.
Travis says: Imo: you decided to change, not some other power. I think you started to rebel from your parents, and because you had not experienced life, these simple experiences shocked you. And you returned to the familiar life.
Jesus Freak says: maybe so. but I've found the truth and im'a stick with it. EOF
Travis says: Very well, just keep an open mind.
Jesus Freak says: just think about it this way. i'm not gg to go out and be a mass muder, or a bank robber. I'll be a great employee who is honest. etc. i.e. I'll be a good person, at bear minimum, even if this stuff isn't true.
Travis says: Religion does not garantee you will be a good person. You do. Religion is as responisble for the good as the bad. What has the middle east been fighting over for thousands of years? And when a common man takes religion to an extreme, he can become a mass murder as well. But I can say that casual use is fine, if it helps you get through life. But I just don't preferr it.
We continued from an earlier chat:
Travis says: Dude, try buddhist beliefs.
Jesus Freak says: that's what we studied last week in phil140/geog100 LC. I don't think so
Travis says: y not?
Jesus Freak says: because if i were 2 believe what they belive there is no way i would be the way i am right now. It had 2 have taken a power greater than me 4 my life 2 change this much.
Travis says: so, your parents already got to you?
Jesus Freak says: no
Travis says: :p
Jesus Freak says: this had nothing 2 do with my parents. the reason I was the way i was, was because of my parents pushing religeon on me.
Travis says: And you think you are no longer a result from your parents influence?
Jesus Freak says: huh?
Travis says: you act as if your parents influence caused you to rebel. But now your choice has no association with your parents.
Jesus Freak says: okay so maybe there is some influence there (who isn't at least a little influnced by their parents).
Travis says: yes, but becuase of the dominating influence, you have made a choice without really any experience to base it on.
Jesus Freak says: I did have an experience though. call me crazy (i call my self crazy sometimes 4 believing this), but when I was smoking weed a couple times, it was like God opened my eyes and showed me the meaning to life. I felt pure goodness and pure evil........ i know, i'm crazy but it's true
Jesus Freak says: maybe what i believe in is all false and this is nothing after death and no god. if that'
Travis says: I know what it is like being high. Believe me. And the first experiences of being high are much more extreme than normal. Your mind is altered for some time, it can be "like" a religious experience.
Jesus Freak says: its true i'll have lived a decent life and have been a good person. but If God is real and the bible is true. OH BOY!!!!
Travis says: so you would limit your entire life for the chance of a reward and/or punishment? If there is a god, do you not think it would want us to just live our lives, without restrictions and rules to follow?
Jesus Freak says: the rules in the bible are 4 our good. they are design by God so we can have a better relationship with him. the reason they don't make sense is because they aren't based on this world. They are based on spiritual thing that don't make sense if you look at them from our point of view. If you really think about it religeon doesn't make sense by our standard so there is any way to philosifiz
Jesus Freak says: e our way 2 and understanding of it. that way it's called a "faith"
Travis says: Lets see: Yes, there are for our good, but sometime laws will not improve matters, sometimes they make things worse.
Jesus Freak says: so there is NOT any way to philosifize our way 2 and understanding of it.
Travis says: Second- the laws were not written by god, they are written by dead priests, with their own motives
Jesus Freak says: BUT worse by our standards
Travis says: And because these are outdated, and hard to understand, some can easily use the same words for holy wars and to cause others pain
Jesus Freak says: if a person belives in the bible and God (faith). they will believe it when the bible says that it is written by God and inerrent.
Travis says: In fact, religion is only ancient politics. Enabling those in power to control the common man, by rewarding or punishing him, in the after-life
Jesus Freak says: maybe. but that's why it's called a FAITH. because a person by believe even when things don't make sense or aren't explainable (in our human term).
Travis says: So, if I was to "believe" the world is flat, is it? You can believe what you want, but what is true canbe different.
Jesus Freak says: u can't philosifize ur way to an understanding of the supernatural.
Travis says: No, but nobody can claim they know what there is and is not in the supposed afterlife.
Jesus Freak says: u can't philosifize ur way to a COMPLEAT understanding of the supernatural.
Travis says: But people feel more comfortable when thay share beliefs, and are in groups. If I was in a group of people who believed in the same thing, I would feel safe and secure. And becuase we do not know what is going to happen, we feel unsafe, and unsecure. That is why religion is around.
Jesus Freak says: I wouldn't and did't feel unsafe, and unsecure without God. I just have 2 believe in him (FAITH in unseeable stuff) because of the weird stuff that only supernaturally could have happened in my life .
Travis says: Do you mean there is unexplain events in your life, and only the exsistance of god could explian it?
Jesus Freak says: yeah i guess kinda. what i mean is if i were to ignore the experiences in my life, such as when i when i compleatly baked and life made total sense with God involved (you'd have to have experienced this 2 understand what i mean). Then I could go on and live my life as if there were no God, but..........with these experiences and changes (1st came the experience, then the faith that the bible is true, and then the changes) in my life (such as stopping listening to music with "bad" words, not commiting suicide, and quitting looking at porn. amoung other thing) there is no way i would have stopped these things aside from an act of God. so this proves to ME that God is real.........It probably won't change anybody elses mind though because they did NOT experience it.
Travis says: Imo: you decided to change, not some other power. I think you started to rebel from your parents, and because you had not experienced life, these simple experiences shocked you. And you returned to the familiar life.
Jesus Freak says: maybe so. but I've found the truth and im'a stick with it. EOF
Travis says: Very well, just keep an open mind.
Jesus Freak says: just think about it this way. i'm not gg to go out and be a mass muder, or a bank robber. I'll be a great employee who is honest. etc. i.e. I'll be a good person, at bear minimum, even if this stuff isn't true.
Travis says: Religion does not garantee you will be a good person. You do. Religion is as responisble for the good as the bad. What has the middle east been fighting over for thousands of years? And when a common man takes religion to an extreme, he can become a mass murder as well. But I can say that casual use is fine, if it helps you get through life. But I just don't preferr it.