ONE of the surest ways to get the phones ringing on any Massachusetts talk-radio show is to ask people to call in and tell their John Kerry stories. The phone lines are soon filled, and most of the stories have a common theme: our junior senator pulling rank on one of his constituents, breaking in line, demanding to pay less (or nothing) or ducking out before the bill arrives.

The tales often have one other common thread. Most end with Sen. Kerry inquiring of the lesser mortal: "Do you know who I am?"

And now he's running for president as a populist. His first wife came from a Philadelphia Main Line family worth $300 million. His second wife is a pickle-and-ketchup heiress.

Kerry lives in a mansion on Beacon Hill on which he has borrowed $6 million to finance his campaign. A fire hydrant that prevented him and his wife from parking their SUV in front of their tony digs was removed by the city of Boston at his behest.

The Kerrys ski at a spa the widow Heinz owns in Aspen, and they summer on Nantucket in a sprawling seaside "cottage" on Hurlbert Avenue, which is so well-appointed that at a recent fund-raiser, they imported porta-toilets onto the front lawn so the donors wouldn't use the inside bathrooms. (They later claimed the decision was made on septic, not social, considerations).

It's a wonderful life these days for John Kerry. He sails Nantucket Sound in "the Scaramouche," a 42-foot Hinckley powerboat. Martha Stewart has a similar boat; the no-frills model reportedly starts at $695,000. Sen. Kerry bought it new, for cash.



Every Tuesday night, the local politicians here that Kerry elbowed out of his way on his march to the top watch, fascinated, as he claims victory in more primaries and denounces the special interests, the "millionaires" and "the overprivileged."



http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/17337.htm

So its a crime to be rich? Personally if an individual hasn't been singularlly successful in his financial life I dont want him responsible for the countries finances. Didnt Bush's daddy buy him his very own baseball team with all that oil money?

The article never states that its a crime to be rich. I dont believe that as well. Its how he carries himself and how he treats other people. On top of that, hes a gold digger.

Originally posted by Diverlady
So its a crime to be rich? Personally if an individual hasn't been singularlly successful in his financial life I dont want him responsible for the countries finances. Didnt Bush's daddy buy him his very own baseball team with all that oil money?

It seems like you're saying that it's fine for Kerry to be rich in one sentence while criticizing Bush for being rich in the next :confused:


Shows something about Kerry's character and personality though when he rails against the very people who got him to where he is today. That's what we need, a President who stabs his friends in the back when he no longer needs them. Maybe he could be the president of france, he'd be perfect :D

Originally posted by Diverlady
So its a crime to be rich? Personally if an individual hasn't been singularlly successful in his financial life I dont want him responsible for the countries finances. Didnt Bush's daddy buy him his very own baseball team with all that oil money?


I think Dubya made a lot of his own oil money, partnered for a while with Osama Bin Laden's brother Saleem....yes, that's true.

But if Kerry is rich like Bush, a member of Skull & Bones like Bush, and a weasel like Bush, then he stinks like Bush.

Oh Jesus, another "rich people are evil" arguement.

Why don't we allow all the screw ups who piss away their money and never succeed in business to lead us. That would work out really well.

They're all the same, all rich, all elite, all destined to send this country over the edge. The rich and the elite have the power, the money, and the will to do the things that circumvent our fake republic, and their intentions need not be evil in order to do so.

the real john kerry = rich summabitch!
The real GWB = even richer summabitch!

Originally posted by 86Dude
They're all the same, all rich, all elite, all destined to send this country over the edge. The rich and the elite have the power, the money, and the will to do the things that circumvent our fake republic, and their intentions need not be evil in order to do so.

so what's the answer?

I wonder what would happen if we were to disallow the extremely rich from running for office.

easy, democracy

I was listening to that show. Howie Carr is the best. he dedicated a whole night to call in and talk abour your Kerry stories. It was great, Kerry is such a bum.

Originally posted by The Miscreant
I wonder what would happen if we were to disallow the extremely rich from running for office.

Civil war?

Originally posted by BIG GABE
the real john kerry = rich summabitch!
The real GWB = even richer summabitch!

Actually I think Kerry is richer.

Kerry's most recent marriage landed him, prenup notwithstanding, somewhere around $700,000,000.

Originally posted by contra


Civil war?

What makes you think so?

Originally posted by The Miscreant


What makes you think so?

Thats what happens when you violently rip away a group's civil rights. :rolleyes:

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/kerry_vc.jpg says a lot when his fellow brothers were being tortured and killed at the time.http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/vc_flg_cap.jpg great crowed he chose to protest with huh?

Originally posted by BIG GABE
easy, democracy

That's what we have now, and it's not the answer.

If Kerry's detractors can't come up with anything better than pointing out that he's rich, sign me up for the Kerry campaign!

Originally posted by frankiep
Why don't we allow all the screw ups who piss away their money and never succeed in business to lead us. That would work out really well.

Aren't we doing that right now?

Didn't Bush fail miserbly in almost every venture he was involved in?

I would rather see "real" business men running the financial side of the Gov't. as advisors to the leaders. Now we basically have figure heads pandering for votes. They go where the votes are instead of going in the direction that best suits the MAJORITY. Pandering to special interest groups isn't what the framers of this country invisioned.

If u want non-rich people to run for office, we need campaign finance reform.

The sick part of it is, the reason money wins elections is because politicians use that money to buy advertising, which is as biased as a message can be, and the American people are dumb enough to vote for whoever has the most ads on TV.

cyllon, that pic looks like it might have been altered...do you have a source for it?

Originally posted by contra
cyllon, that pic looks like it might have been altered...do you have a source for it? http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/
The Viet Cong flag was added as a back drop to J.F. Kerry to symbolize the aid and comfort he gave Vietnam's "revolutionary Communists" with his high profile participation in Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) demonstrations.http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/ker_sen_71.jpg

cyllon, your little photo trick and it's implications are disgusting. How many wars have you fought in? Who the hell are you to impugn a man who fought and was injured on a battlefield and came home to exercise the same right to protest that he ostensibly fought for in a foreign country? The Vietnam war was bullsh*t and Kerry was right to denounce it. It's bizarre and laughable that the same people who have defended George W. Bush for the last three years now want to criticize a man because he's rich and fought in a war that Bush ran scared from. Pretty pathetic and transparent.

John Kerry is not my candidate and I personally don't think things in this country will change any for the better if he takes office. But as someone who is in the military myself it makes me pretty damn mad when young college poofs like contra and other internet warriors dare to question the patriotism of people who have the balls to actually wear a uniform of the US military everyday.

Yes, I hate being in the military. Yes, I detest the bloated federal government of the USA. But no matter what, I have put my feelings and opinions aside and laced up my boots and put on my uniform and served every day of the oath I took, and done it honorably, and will until my conract is up.

Service members and veterans are just as much entitled to any damn opinion they want to hold as anybody else, and unless you've done the job they do you don't have any room to question their "patriotism" for it.....

Kerry was a co-founder of the Vietnam Veterans of America and became a spokesperson for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War

http://www.senate.gov/~kerry/bandwidth/about/biography.html


I'm not posting this to take a shot at Kerry's service record. I did however serve with a Green Beret in 'Nam from Boston who claimed to be a co-founder of the VVAG. He was doing time on his THIRD tour - granted he had lost a brother there early in the war and was probably on some kind of "mission", but regardless, he was one sick ****er.

Seeing that Kerry was in the Navy I'm sure his missions were much different than mine. There was a story about Kerry going around about a year ago that seemed to fit into what this Green Beret guy I served with would have done. So, I'm a bit biased - but I wouldn't vote for him anyway.

I did bring home this neat 12 inch circular VVAG patch though:p

The "leadership" of the United States is incredibly incompetent and corrupt.

I didn't realize it took more investigative journalism to tell people that.

Big, fat, ignorant Americans just keep drifting farther and farther away from reality. Funny almost, but not really.

Originally posted by Jay GW

Big, fat, ignorant Americans just keep drifting farther and farther away from reality. Funny almost, but not really.

Don't generalize or anything. That would make you a bigot.

Don't generalize or anything. That would make you a bigot.

You know it's true. That's why you quoted it.

Originally posted by Jay GW


You know it's true. That's why you quoted it.

Big, fat, ignorant [enter group here] just keep drifting farther and farther away from reality. Funny almost, but not really.

:bang:

:bang:

It's ok. Harming yourself won't solve anything. Just take it one day at a time.

Originally posted by drunken hearted man
cyllon, your little photo trick and it's implications are disgusting. How many wars have you fought in? Who the hell are you to impugn a man who fought and was injured on a battlefield and came home to exercise the same right to protest that he ostensibly fought for in a foreign country?


Forgive me DHM but he was only quoting from the Vietnam Veterans Against Kerry. I believe that is where the photo originated from as well.
It goes to show the level of animosity between many who previously served in Vietnam and Kerry's ridiculous, radical behaivior after he returned.

I don't question or impune his past military service, and I don't think Cyllon is either. In fact, I think I can say we both appreciate it.
It is his actions since then that are deserving of criticism.


BTW.....your banner...are you a pro-lifer?


If Kerry's detractors can't come up with anything better than pointing out that he's rich, sign me up for the Kerry campaign!

See the thread entitled "John Kerry on National Defense"...or something like that.
Kerry is severely lacking in judgement and his record will haunt him which is why we now see the Democrats deflecting and trying to attack Bush with the phoney AWOL charge........again.
Say, didn't they try that one 4 years ago?

Originally posted by Feenix566
If Kerry's detractors can't come up with anything better than pointing out that he's rich, sign me up for the Kerry campaign!

Me too.

In fact,I've never worked for a canidate,but myself [and several others I know] are going to work for Kerry this year.

Bush must go.
Originally posted by contra
cyllon, that pic looks like it might have been altered...do you have a source for it?
Of course it was altered, typical of the decption and dishonesty of most right-wing pundits and activists.

These rightists cannot win anything by being honest or ethical.
Originally posted by drunken hearted man
cyllon, your little photo trick and it's implications are disgusting. How many wars have you fought in? Who the hell are you to impugn a man who fought and was injured on a battlefield and came home to exercise the same right to protest that he ostensibly fought for in a foreign country? The Vietnam war was bullsh*t and Kerry was right to denounce it. It's bizarre and laughable that the same people who have defended George W. Bush for the last three years now want to criticize a man because he's rich and fought in a war that Bush ran scared from. Pretty pathetic and transparent.

John Kerry is not my candidate and I personally don't think things in this country will change any for the better if he takes office. But as someone who is in the military myself it makes me pretty damn mad when young college poofs like contra and other internet warriors dare to question the patriotism of people who have the balls to actually wear a uniform of the US military everyday.

Yes, I hate being in the military. Yes, I detest the bloated federal government of the USA. But no matter what, I have put my feelings and opinions aside and laced up my boots and put on my uniform and served every day of the oath I took, and done it honorably, and will until my conract is up.

Service members and veterans are just as much entitled to any damn opinion they want to hold as anybody else, and unless you've done the job they do you don't have any room to question their "patriotism" for it.....

:nice:

Kerry's lack of judgement is not needed during these times, or any other for that matter.

http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49304

Originally posted by drunken hearted man
cyllon, your little photo trick and it's implications are disgusting. How many wars have you fought in? Who the hell are you to impugn a man who fought and was injured on a battlefield and came home to exercise the same right to protest that he ostensibly fought for in a foreign country? The Vietnam war was bullsh*t and Kerry was right to denounce it. It's bizarre and laughable that the same people who have defended George W. Bush for the last three years now want to criticize a man because he's rich and fought in a war that Bush ran scared from. Pretty pathetic and transparent.

John Kerry is not my candidate and I personally don't think things in this country will change any for the better if he takes office. But as someone who is in the military myself it makes me pretty damn mad when young college poofs like contra and other internet warriors dare to question the patriotism of people who have the balls to actually wear a uniform of the US military everyday.

Yes, I hate being in the military. Yes, I detest the bloated federal government of the USA. But no matter what, I have put my feelings and opinions aside and laced up my boots and put on my uniform and served every day of the oath I took, and done it honorably, and will until my conract is up.

Service members and veterans are just as much entitled to any damn opinion they want to hold as anybody else, and unless you've done the job they do you don't have any room to question their "patriotism" for it..... When the shoe fits.If anyone suports a communist ideal It does not matter HOW many damm wars they fought in. Does Kerry? No but he chose to aline himself with those who do and aid them.The V.C. fought as well, should I vote for them to represent me!He can denounce it thats not the point. How, and with who IS.I have every right and room to question marches with communist flags and portraits of MAO.

I do not and have not questiond his service. I question his choice of protest froinds and those he chose to unit with in his protest as well as the FACT that he broke that brother code that is so sacred.

Originally posted by Truth Teller




Of course it was altered, typical of the decption and dishonesty of most right-wing pundits and activists.

These rightists cannot win anything by being honest or ethical.


:nice: It was obviously altered. Any idiot could spot it. The others were nothttp://www.unclebill.us/lg/lg0136.gif

Originally posted by CYLLON
When the shoe fits.If anyone suports a communist ideal It does not matter HOW many damm wars they fought in. Does Kerry? No but he chose to aline himself with those who do and aid them.The V.C. fought as well



I thought this kind of demagoguery died with Joe Mc Carthy and Geroge Wallace.

If this is the best you can do,then your boy Bush is a loser for certain.

Remember,all of the Republican dirty tricks didn't keep Clinton out of the White House,and Kerry has way more going for him than Clinton ever did.

The Viet Nam war was wrong, and supporting it just because it was carried out by the United States is a perfect example of how nationalism leads to poor decisions.

John Kerry did the right thing by answering the call to duty, then speaking his conscience upon return.

Originally posted by Feenix566
The Viet Nam war was wrong, and supporting it just because it was carried out by the United States is a perfect example of how nationalism leads to poor decisions.

John Kerry did the right thing by answering the call to duty, then speaking his conscience upon return.

Excellent post.:nice:

Here is Kerry, with that Filthy rotten communist Jane Fonda and other idiots.

Photos like this during the campaign will go over well with the majority of the populace.......NOT.


http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_020904/content/eib_extra.Par.0007.ImageFile.jpg

Originally posted by Truth Teller


I thought this kind of demagoguery died with Joe Mc Carthy and Geroge Wallace.

If this is the best you can do,then your boy Bush is a loser for certain.

Remember,all of the Republican dirty tricks didn't keep Clinton out of the White House,and Kerry has way more going for him than Clinton ever did. There we go. The old McCarthy theme. In case you have not learned, the release of those classified pappers proved old joe correct.

Bush is not my boy. These are vets themselves.

Here is another:http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/0204a/09veteran.html

We all know the differences. Bush was a pilot in the National Guard; Kerry was a combat veteran. The Boston Globe recently pointed out that Kerry, in less than two months of combat, received the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts, which made him a hero and allowed him to request early termination of his combat duty.But what happened next bothers me. According to the Globe, Kerry became involved in the anti-war movement upon his return, and asked for and received an early discharge from the Navy so he could continue those efforts.

How could Kerry so easily abandon his comrades in Vietnam, and then, 30 years on, call on those same men and women to back his presidential ambition?

Maybe a fix? maybe if Bush got influence for his post Kerry got it for a decoration and early discharge? whats good for the goose....After all. if you can make spin on bush and his service why not on kerry. There is dispute over how he got those medeals remember?



Kerry now holds himself up as a war hero and asks for my vote. Yet, 30 years ago he stood with Jane Fonda and gave aid and comfort to an enemy still killing our brother veterans by the hundreds.

Bush's honorable service in the National Guard bothers me less than Kerry's abandonment of his brothers, his switching sides and his active contribution to an enemy's efforts to kill Americans.
Lets insert those words here and see how they look:

I thought this kind of demagoguery died with Joe Mc Carthy and Geroge Wallace.

If this is the best you can do,then your boy Bush is a loser for certain.

Remember,all of the Republican dirty tricks didn't keep Clinton out of the White House,and Kerry has way more going for him than Clinton ever did. HmmmM. Not so good.Bad mouthing a vet there T.T.?

Time often softens the dark edges of military service, leaving grown men the ability to sit around a kitchen table late at night to laugh about the exploits that left them less than whole. But the dramatic difference between Hero Kerry and Hanoi Kerry leave me to wonder who he might next abandon, and at what cost to America.

D@mm those McCarthy bush supporter veterans .




:o

He is just a gigolo

http://anncoulter.com/columns/2004/012804e.htm

Originally posted by Feenix566
The Viet Nam war was wrong, and supporting it just because it was carried out by the United States is a perfect example of how nationalism leads to poor decisions.

John Kerry did the right thing by answering the call to duty, then speaking his conscience upon return. not by giving aid and commfort to the enemy. Many people oppossed that war and did niy turn {by vetereans own words not mine** to do it. Big BIG diference people and its sad you cant see that difference but can single out a guardsman for ridicule.

[dup

Based on what I have read Kerry did not "give aid and comfort to the enemy" he protested the war. I have a great deal of respect for those who placed themselves in harms way and then stood up after their commitment was done and opposed the politics behind the war. The war was horribly run and any vet who opposed it was quite right in doing so. For those who served but were not supported by their government it must have been a cruel experience. Not to be allowed to do the job.

Originally posted by Diverlady
Based on what I have read Kerry did not "give aid and comfort to the enemy" he protested the war. I have a great deal of respect for those who placed themselves in harms way and then stood up after their commitment was done and opposed the politics behind the war. The war was horribly run and any vet who opposed it was quite right in doing so. For those who served but were not supported by their government it must have been a cruel experience. Not to be allowed to do the job. Based on what I have read and what vets are saying he did.

the point is not protests. The point is how he did it and with who.

Originally posted by Powerboss

Photos like this during the campaign will go over well with the majority of the populace.......NOT.




The majority of people have no problem with Jane Fonda,just a few bigoted dittoheads.


Veitnam is not an issue with voters in the 21st Century,look how unsucessful your Clinton/draft smear campaign in the 90's was and Kerry has way more going for him that Clinton had,and Bush 43 has even less going for him than Bush 41 did.

[i]Originally posted by CYLLON
There we go. The old McCarthy theme. In case you have not learned, the release of those classified pappers proved old joe correct.


Actually,not one speific charge Mc Carthy made was backed up by the Verona Files.


Bush is not my boy.


Then why are you kissing his butt?



Yet, 30 years ago he stood with Jane Fonda and gave aid and comfort to an enemy still killing our brother veterans by the hundreds.


Total :bs:,if he was guilty of that then why didn't Tricky Dick Nixon file charges against him [or Fonda for that matter]?



Not so good.Bad mouthing a vet there T.T.?


I didn't know you were a vet? :D

Originally posted by Diverlady
Based on what I have read Kerry did not "give aid and comfort to the enemy" he protested the war. I have a great deal of respect for those who placed themselves in harms way and then stood up after their commitment was done and opposed the politics behind the war. The war was horribly run and any vet who opposed it was quite right in doing so.



Agreed.:nice:

Originally posted by CYLLON
Based on what I have read and what vets are saying he did.


Not all vets feel that way,in fact I met a Veitnam Vet today who supports Kerry and from what he tells me there are many,many more who support him.

It's possible [in fact likely] that your ultra right-wing Veitnam Vets are in the minority.

The vets you bring up are ultra right-wing and would support any right-winger,and oppose any non- rightist,the war or protests have nothing to do with it.

And why should that draft-doging ,phony, ,lying,bigoted, junkie named Rush Limbaugh have any credibility in this?


the point is not protests. The point is how he did it and with who.

Total :bs:,the point is Kerry is a Democrat and the ethically -challenged conservatives [led by that draft-doger Rush Limbaugh] are out to get him by any means they can so that honesty-challenged president named Bush can be re-elected.

He's going back to Crawford,get used to it.

Originally posted by Truth Teller


The majority of people have no problem with Jane Fonda,just a few bigoted dittoheads. Oh! Now he speaks for Americans. Right t.t. Most Americans Hate business. Most Americans hate profit. Most Americans Hate{fill t.t’s in blank**.
:lol: :rofl:


Actually, not one specific charge Mc Carthy made was backed up by the Verona Files. Oh yes they did and you know it. You just hope no one looks so you can keep using that McCarthy bit.



Then why are you kissing his butt?[/QUOTE** Beats he.ll out of kissing yours. But that projection is your character flaw.

[QUOTE]
Total :bs:, if he was guilty of that then why didn't Tricky Dick Nixon file charges against him [or Fonda for that matter]?
Reread the link you clearly ignored.



I didn't know you were a vet? See previous links and posts you ignored :D

Not all vets feel that way, in fact I met a Vietnam Vet today who supports Kerry and from what he tells me there are many, many more who support him. I never said they did.

It's possible [in fact likely] that your ultra right-wing Vietnam Vets are in the minority.

The vets you bring up are ultra right-wing and would support any right-winger, and oppose any non- rightist, the war or protests have nothing to do with it. Stifled again so the right wing label appears. Coming from declared supporter of MAO I thank you for the compliment.

And why should that draft-dogging ,phony, ,lying, bigoted junkie named Rush Limbaugh have any credibility in this? HUH? Maybe you have been taking to many hits with him because you are the only one bringing him up.

Total :bs:,the point is Kerry is a Democrat and the ethically -challenged conservatives [led by that draft-doger Rush Limbaugh] are out to get him by any means they can so that honesty-challenged president named Bush can be re-elected.

He's going back to Crawford,get used to it. :rolleyes: Being I am not a conservative and registered libertarian and you already know this from my starter threads against bush, I think I will ignore your Little red book tactical rants since they really have nothing to do with what I am posting anyway.

You always start the incoherent diatribes when you are shown lacking.
:confused: :confused:

Originally posted by Feenix566

John Kerry did the right thing by answering the call to duty, then speaking his conscience upon return.

He did far more than that though. He lied in his testimony for one, his actions aided our enemy. Vietnamese leaders affirm that if it had not been for the antiwar crowd they would've lost the war.

The majority of people have no problem with Jane Fonda,just a few bigoted dittoheads.


LOL. Really? You need to get a grip on what the majority of Americans really think.


Veitnam is not an issue with voters in the 21st Century,look how unsucessful your Clinton/draft smear campaign in the 90's was [it sure kept him out of the White House didn't it ] and Kerry has way more going for him that Clinton had,and Bush 43 has even less going for him than Bush 41 did.


If it is not an issue then why did Terry McAwfulle start bringing it all up?

I don't have time to respond in full tonight,tomorrow maybe.

But I do want to make two points now:

PB put Rush limbaugh's website in this.

Once again,conservatives attacking Kerry and bringing up an ACTUAL draft-dodger [not to mention junkie] Rush Limbaugh as a refrence point,shows what a bunch of phonies these conservatives are.

Kerry was opposed to the war,he went anyway,after the war he engaged in dissent,which is a right given to him by the Constitution.

Clinton dodged the draft,but he wasn't a hypocrite because he opposed the war.

George W. Bush,Pat Buchanan,George Will,Dan Quayle,Newt Gingritch and ESPECIALLY Rush Limbaugh were for the war,and went and dodged the draft anyway.

I guess these hypocrites didn't have the courage of their so-called convictions,or all of these spoiled, conservative rich- boys felt they were just too damn good to go and had the working class go for them instead.

Modern conservatives,what phonies.


Finally,you can't name me one specific charge by Joe Mc Carthy the Vernoa Files backed up,that's NONE are backed up by the Verona Files.

Where is your evidence they all "dodged" the draft?

Please present it......when you have time, that is.

You have this pattern of making ridiculous, untrue, charges and then when called on to back it up you NEVER do.
Then when someone persists for you to back up your claims, you DONT and claim that you are being harrassed.


BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY.

Oh, Its Venona btw, with an N, not an R. Got it?

Originally posted by Truth Teller


Finally,you can't name me one specific charge by Joe Mc Carthy the Vernoa Files backed up,that's NONE are backed up by the Verona Files.


McCarthy was proven absolutely right as the Venona papers affirm that there was indeed a large network of communists entrenched in and out of the US government.

http://www.nsa.gov/docs/venona/


I realize why you have such a revoltion to such information but face the facts. If anything, he underestimated the size and scope of the filthy commies.



Stop invoking the name, lying about and attacking a good man, a patriot, to shield your ideology's treasonous behavior and record.

Originally posted by Diverlady
So its a crime to be rich? Personally if an individual hasn't been singularlly successful in his financial life I dont want him responsible for the countries finances. Didnt Bush's daddy buy him his very own baseball team with all that oil money?
Kind of ironic to hear all the conservatives getting so bent out of shape about Kerry having money. These are the guys who say that people who are rich are entitled to their wealth.

George W. Bush,Pat Buchanan,George Will,Dan Quayle,Newt Gingritch and ESPECIALLY Rush Limbaugh were for the war,and went and dodged the draft anyway.

Yeah, another thing I highly dislike about some conservatives. They pretend like great patriotic heros from their office, while sending our soldiers to wars. I admit that John Kerry is far from perfect, but c'mon, at least he fought for his country and is a war hero, weather you like him or not. And the fact that he protested against the war adds even more credit to him, because even that he was against what the government was doing, he still went and fought for his country. The Vietnam war was wrong and plain stupid. All it did was kill many American soldiers for a useless purpose for over 10 years. Anybody with common sense was either against the war, or at least against the way the war was done by corrupt politicians.

Stop invoking the name, lying about and attacking a good man, a patriot, to shield your ideology's treasonous behavior and record.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA, McKKKarthy a good man???? a patriot????

AAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! This is the funniest sh!t I ever heard!!!!!

He was a worthless, useless clown and a junkie too. Kind of like Limbaugh but with too much power. I mean, that paranoid moron was calling Truman and Roosevelt (great American presidents) communists. He saw a "communist" everywhere. Even called Eisenhower a communist once, or something like that. That idiot served the REAL commies more than anything because he proved how America can actually go to the anti-freedom direction which made the communist feel better about themselves and it helped their anti-american propoganda.

I was born in Soviet Union and my family lived there and suffered for over 100 years. I know and understand the evils of communism more than any redneck who never went outside of USA. And my grandparents even can recall the communists making fun of America during that time about how there is no freedom of speech and brutal government...

McCarthy was like a clown to them who helped make America look just as ridiculous as them.

I mean, he was really nuts. He drank more than a Russian and he was shooting morphine (even I wouldn't do that, ever!!!!), and he just got insane to the point that he was accusing great military people of being communists, and that's when he finally lost his power. Even the biggest so-called "anti-communists" like Nixon and Eisenhower condemed his actions. He was a shame to America and to its values and any real patriot of this country will agree.

I mean, he was really nuts. He drank more than a Russian and he was shooting morphine

Promoting a stereotype of Russians being drunkards! Bigot!

Promoting a stereotype of Russians being drunkards! Bigot!

Naw, I've lived there, nearly every Russian drinks, that's just in their culture.

Originally posted by GanjaFreebird


Naw, I've lived there, nearly every Russian drinks, that's just in their culture.
:werd:

The same applies to Czechs and other eastern people. I am not bashing, just saying what I found to be true.

Originally posted by GanjaFreebird


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA, McKKKarthy a good man???? a patriot????

AAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! This is the funniest sh!t I ever heard!!!!!

He was a worthless, useless clown and a junkie too. Kind of like Limbaugh but with too much power. I mean, that paranoid moron was calling Truman and Roosevelt (great American presidents) communists. He saw a "communist" everywhere. Even called Eisenhower a communist once, or something like that. That idiot served the REAL commies more than anything because he proved how America can actually go to the anti-freedom direction which made the communist feel better about themselves and it helped their anti-american propoganda.

I was born in Soviet Union and my family lived there and suffered for over 100 years. I know and understand the evils of communism more than any redneck who never went outside of USA. And my grandparents even can recall the communists making fun of America during that time about how there is no freedom of speech and brutal government...

McCarthy was like a clown to them who helped make America look just as ridiculous as them.

I mean, he was really nuts. He drank more than a Russian and he was shooting morphine (even I wouldn't do that, ever!!!!), and he just got insane to the point that he was accusing great military people of being communists, and that's when he finally lost his power. Even the biggest so-called "anti-communists" like Nixon and Eisenhower condemed his actions. He was a shame to America and to its values and any real patriot of this country will agree.



Now that you're done with your little rant, please demonstrate how he was wrong seeing that we decoded the Venona papers.

"Tailgunner" Joe, yes he served with honor, loved his country.
He was right.
You are just another victim of liberal propoganda that destroyed a man to cover their sins.

Oh, don't go telling people you know more about communism than anyone else here either. Thats a laugh. Truly.

Now that you're done with your little rant, please demonstrate how he was wrong seeing that we decoded the Venona papers.

He was accusing and destroying people's lives for their opinions. Also he would label a "communist" anybody that he didn't like, probably even his neighbour's dog if he sh!tted in his yard. I mean, anybody who would call a great American president like Truman or Roosevelt is a f#ckin' idiot. Again, even the most "anti-communist" politicians condemed his actions and stopped him. Let's get real, the guy was a drug addicted lunatic who was first of all paranoid to the point that he thought there are communists under his bed, and secondly, abused his power by destroying anybody he didn't like, and thirdly, raped the first amendment.

"Tailgunner" Joe, yes he served with honor, loved his country.

He loved himself and his power more than anything. He tried to destroy the values that the country (that he supposedly loved) was based on.


You are just another victim of liberal propoganda that destroyed a man to cover their sins.

Since when people like Eisenhower and Tricky Dick were a part of "liberal propoganda"?

Also, I'm hardly a leftist myself. I just value freedom and the American constituion, and this is why I think that way about him.

Oh, don't go telling people you know more about communism than anyone else here either. Thats a laugh. Truly.

Oh really, well, you're sure are wrong here. I may not know about communism more than ANYBODY, but definately more than anybody who never set foot in USSR, let alone lived there.

My family has been living there for over a hundred years, and faced the worst kinds of discrimination. Do you know what it was like to be Jewish during Soviet communism or during the Czar's time? You don't know sh!t.

If there is anybody on this board who truely understands and hates communism for the right reasons, it is me.

You, your "anti-communist so-called patriots" friends and junkie joe don't even really understand how bad was communism or why it was bad. Anybody who calls John Lennon or Jane Fonda a communist sure doesn't know what a real commie is. You guys just hate communism because you think that they are "these evil liberals". Well guess what, McCarthy himself wasn't very far from being a communist by his tactics, in fact, he seemed to learn from them quite a bit.

Yes, I do know it better, and that's what personal experience does. And I also know that the best way to fight communism is to enforce freedom values as oppose to take them away, because freedom is communism's worst enemy.

He was accusing and destroying people's lives for their opinions.

Name some people who's lives he destroyed who were not filthy commies.

I mean, anybody who would call a great American president like Truman or Roosevelt is a f#ckin' idiot.

I believe that more accurately, he made the charges that there were communists inside of these administrations, which the facts bear out.

He loved himself and his power more than anything. He tried to destroy the values that the country (that he supposedly loved) was based on.

He was attempting to purge the government of communist spies, which there were a number of.

Have you even read about the Venona transcripts?

Since when people like Eisenhower and Tricky Dick were a part of "liberal propoganda"?


Of course he was condemned by many. Many did distance themselves becuase the press has done a masterful job of revising the historical record. He became radioactive. It does not change the validity of what he charged.

Also, I'm hardly a leftist myself. I just value freedom and the American constituion, and this is why I think that way about him.

If I could have a dollar for every person who claims not to be a leftist, yet espouses leftist ideals, I'd be a rich man.
What is it with you people running from your ideology.

I value freedom and the constitution as much as anyone, I am a conservative. I seek to preserve the constitution and would prefer it to be adhered to by our federal government and by judges. It is not the right wing judges that see the constitution as an obstacle. It is not the right wing judges that find things in the constitution that are not there while altering the clear intent of other amendments to suit their agenda.

Originally posted by Powerboss
Where is your evidence they all "dodged" the draft?

Please present it......when you have time, that is.

You have this pattern of making ridiculous, untrue, charges and then when called on to back it up you NEVER do.
Then when someone persists for you to back up your claims, you DONT and claim that you are being harrassed.


BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY.
I'm getting the material together [which you will discount anyway].

But they all avoided Veitnam in one undebatable way,they all could have gone to a recruiterand volunteered for the armed forces and ask to be sent to Veitnam ,and there are no records of any of them doing that.

Likewise ,Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter could have voluntereed for Desert Storm and didn't.

It doesn't matter if you're a draft-dodger,draft- avoider,or one who advocates war for others but not themselves,it's all part of the same hypocrisy that shows modern conservatives for the phonies they are.

Originally posted by Powerboss
Oh, Its Venona btw, with an N, not an R. Got it?
:o

Originally posted by Powerboss



McCarthy was proven absolutely right as the Venona papers affirm that there was indeed a large network of communists entrenched in and out of the US government.



I repeat,not one SPECIFIC charge Mc Carthy made against any individual was backed up by Venona.

I saw a guy on C-Span who wote the defintiive book on Venona,he said what I just did [and he saw all the files].

He's an anti-Commie,and he despises Mc Carthy as a oppertunist and a demagogue.




Stop invoking the name, lying about and attacking a good man, a patriot, to shield your ideology's treasonous behavior and record.
He was a liar,oppertunist,demagogue and alkie.

Originally posted by GanjaFreebird


Naw, I've lived there, nearly every Russian drinks, that's just in their culture.

True,I emt osme who went to Russia as aprt of a U.S sopsored goodwill tour in the 70's,he said he saw more drinking in Russia then he ever saw before in his life.

Originally posted by Powerboss


Name some people who's lives he destroyed who were not filthy commies.



John Henry Faulk for one.

There was also a writer who David Niven mentioned in one of his books [his first name was Hugh ,I can't rememebr his last name],who was apoltical,his name never came up in any HUAC [or related ] committee,yet he was balcklisted , ONLY becasue someone with a personal vendetta spead a rumor about him.

And not everyone who a member of the CPUSA in the 30's and 40's was "filthy" ,in fact they were most of the time the best people this country produced during that era,and at the time were about the only people who stood against facsim,racism,explotation of workers etc.,were they duped by Stalin?

Yes,but they were good decent ,innocent people who knew nothing of his atrocities and left the party when they were made public [around '56] and were ashamed of themsleves for being duped by a butcher,they still held on to ther humanitiarian values of anti-bigotry etc. .

If you are going to discuss CPUSA in the 40's and 50's,you have to do so in a historically and intellectually honest manner,and not use emotionalism,sensationalism ,hate,demagoguery and lies.

Like that scumbag Mc Carthy did.


No,they were duped,but they were not "filthy " and deserved much,much better than they got.

By the way,Venona also proved that Ethel Rosenberg was innocent [FBI files show that even a reactionary like J. Edgar Hoover felt she shouldn't have been executed] and that Julius Rosenberg was only a small-fry spy who was not guiltly of the crime he was convcited of [and executed for].

Maybe Venona can undermine some left orthodoxy,but it also undermines some right orthodoxy too.



Of course he was condemned by many.



Marget Chase Smith [a right-winger's right-winger for only one]


Many did distance themselves becuase the press has done a masterful job of revising the historical record. He became radioactive. It does not change the validity of what he charged.


:bs:


If I could have a dollar for every person who claims not to be a leftist, yet espouses leftist ideals, I'd be a rich man.
What is it with you people running from your ideology.


Maybe you're so extreme to the right you have blinders on to anything else,even moderates or free thinkers?

GF,

I had to post my response to you the way I did or my computer would have crashed [and I would have had to start over again].

Anyway,the guy who went to Russia said he saw way more drinking there then he ever saw anyplace else in his life,but he also didn't see any winos on the street and the streets of Moscow were always clean.

Still,[though he was glad he went] he'd take any U.S. city [warts and all] over Moscow.

This was in the late 70's,I don't what it's like today.

Here's a lot of conservatives who dodged the draft www.voy.com/3567/4652.html.

Democrats who served and Republicans who didn't www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html.

Rush Limbaugh was first eligible for the draft in late 1969,from late '69 to late '70 he got out of the draft with a student deferment for attending Southeast Missouri State University.

In late '70 he dropped out of college [his records show him to be on the verge of flunking out],his draft board re-classified him as 1-Y [which means ellligible for the draft],before his draft baord cold do anything about it,Limbaugh's family physician said he had a pilonidal cyst [which could have been repared by minor surgery,his family was rich,they could have afforded the surgery] and sent that to his draft board.

The doctor diagnosed him with a pilondial cyst on 11-24-70.

There is no record he had an armed forces exam,so there is no impartial evidence that he even had the cyst,let alone how major [or minor] it was.


As for Pat Buchanan ,well he might have a had a dipstick problem www.realchange.org/buchanan.htm#draft.

And for Newt www.realchange.org/gingrich.htm#draft

Another slobbering crybaby whining about the anger their anti-American tirades have provoked among the American people. When warned that this reaction may result in a dreaded blacklist where they may find themselves tossed into the outer darkness, jobless, deprived of their right to express their creativity and political views.
This, the cry goes out, will revive evil McCarthyite blacklist that left so many unable to find work and subjected them to scorn due to the before mentioned blacklist .Allegedly the work of evil old Joe McCarthy.
This is typical leftist hogwash. Just one of the myths spun endlessly by the left when they have no where else to go on an idea. It’s so old it really means nothing anymore. The American people are sick of hearing them repeat it over and over again. It’s often done by people who ought to know better. In this case we clearly have the exception.

The left keeps repeating again and again about the plight of the so-called victims of McCarthyism – that alleged army of people evilly and unfairly targeted by the Wisconsin senator. Gallons of tears are shed over Hollywood actors, writers and others working in films.
This so-called blacklist allegedly kept innocent people from working (never mind the fact that their left-wing friends continued to use many the identified members of the Soviet-led American Communist party – lately revealed as totally an instrument of the Soviet Union – while concealing their assistance).

There are some things wrong with this blacklist myth. For starters, these folk were not what they are called today – victims of McCarthyism. Joe did not have a thing to do with the Hollywood hearings, which cited the communist membership of the accused; these were solely the endeavor of the House Un-American Activities Committee and took place long before Joe took center stage.
Oh and the so-called victims were members of the Soviet-dominated U.S. Communist party and, therefore, as a result, under Soviet discipline – in other words, working for America's sworn enemies. We have a word for that – it's called treason.
Yes there was a real blacklist; however, one that punished its victims as the mythical victims of the hyped-up Hollywood blacklist claimed they were being punished. It consisted of anti-Communists – famous and not-so-famous actors and directors who were unable to find work due to their anti-Communist activities. People like Adolph Menjou, Ward Bond, Bruce Cabot – all members of John Wayne's anti-Communist Motion Picture Alliance.
Wayne courageously stood up for them and those like them – and most can be seen in reruns of countless Wayne films. He used them over and over when nobody else would hire them, keeping them working. They were the real victims of the McCarthy age .Real victims of a real blacklist, spurned by the studios and treated as pariahs by the Hollywood elite.

The McCarthyism Myth
Let's start with the dreaded phrase McCarthyism. That slander the left loves to hang around the unsuspecting necks of anybody who disagree with them and tries to counter their deadly influence over American life.
Since you threw the word around Tig do you have the faintest idea of where the word was coined? Are you aware it was hatched in the bowels of No. 3 Dzherzinsky Square – headquarters of the KGB in Moscow? Are you aware it was first used in the columns of the communist newspaper the Daily Worker long before the left-wing media and the liberals eagerly snatched it up for their own use against anti-communists, thereby doing just what the Soviets expected of their classic useful idiots and closet Soviet sympathizers ?

It continues in use to this day .Its used to brand any cause or group the left deems inimical to its dogma as being something dark ,evil ,vial, and sinister not to mention un-American.
The viciousness targeted towards conservatives and anti-communists by the left during the ’40s and ’50s is displayed these days against the pro-life movement {not the clinic bomber types**, religious conservatives [note duckies recent derogatory remarks**, Bush supporters {just look anywhere** and all others opposed to their agenda. An agenda that the left seeks to impose on America.
And the socialism that they espouse is every bit as coercive as the Soviet communist system with which they could find no wrong in the days of McCarthy. Many described communism simply as "socialism in a hurry."
In other words, cow all the supporters of liberty in a reign of terror before socialists take over and herd the mindless, dumbed-down sheep left into the Leftist pen.

Joe McCarthy was a flawed human being. There were many occasions Joe's background as a combative Irish ex-Marine led him to act more like the street fighter than the cool and collected lawman dealing with a sinister underhanded conspiracy protected by a few elite of the nation. But the thrust of that campaign he waged against Soviet stooges among us was on target most of the time.
I will not close the books on that so-called McCarthy era, simply because the excesses of the far-left against anti-Communists were the same forerunners of the same excesses of the liberals of the present day. They smeared their foes, lied about them and created a whole slew of myths that remain current to this day and are still used.
Their tactic are the same .Here is an example .The disgraceful behavior of the liberal Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee impeachment hearings or Senate Democrats who stymied the Thompson Committee investigation into Chinese espionage and their illegal campaign contributions to the Democrats and Clinton-Gore.

How about their current attempt to prevent Senate confirmation of Miguel Estrada by conducting a filibuster, which is simply an assault on the Constitution of the United States.

Then we have the matter of the source of many of Joe's accusations – accusations still being proved correct by the release of the so-called Venona intercepts of Soviet cable traffic whose code was broken back in the mid-forties and remained top secret until recently.
These intercepts proved that there were over 350 Americans spying for the Soviets, and allowed investigators to identify about half of them. Joe McCarthy had access to that information from the top secret Venona intercepts – access given him by J. Edgar Hoover and others concerned with the extent of Soviet espionage and penetration.
Unfortunately he was unable to defend himself against charges of recklessly accusing people of being Soviet agents by revealing his source of information without tipping off the Soviets that some of their most important secrets were now known to U.S. intelligence.
A most revealing admit ion of the left was Carl Bernstein's quote from his father , who, with Carl's mother, was a top Communist Party member. Here's what Bernstein recalls his father warning him when his 1989 book, "Loyalties: A Son's Memoir," was published:
"You're going to prove [Sen. Joseph] McCarthy was right, because all he was saying is that the system was loaded with Communists. And he was right. ... I'm worried about the kind of book you're going to write and about cleaning up McCarthy. The problem is that everybody said he was a liar; you're saying he was right. ... I agree that the Party was a force in the country."

How about the smear tactics used by the Soviets to discredit J. Edgar Hoover by falsely charging that he was a cross-dressing sexual deviant .They were taken as fact by the media and many Americans despite the fact, recently revealed, the charges were utterly unproven and absurd. They were widely disseminated by, among others, the KGB's disinformation shop.
Yea.I can see him showing up at parties dressed as a woman and not have the fact explode in headlines within hours. Does anybody believe that the most famous cop in America, the man almost paranoid about maintaining his privacy, as well as being a target for every Red and gangster, crook and KGB plant in the nation could pull that off?
The facts in this case are now well known. They are also ignored by those who never forgave Hoover for his effective war against communist subversion in the U.S. Just like Joe has never been let off the hook. He was right and it’s now been backed up but he is still vilified and his name used to cower the enemies of the left.
In his book "The Bureau: The Secret History of the FBI" Ronald Kessler effectively demolishes this filthy slander in which liberals love to wallow.
"Here are the facts, as Kessler recounts them:
The myth has its roots in British author Anthony Summers' 1993 book, "Official and Confidential: The Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover." Summers' source for the story was one Susan L. Rosenstiel, a former wife of Lewis S. Rosenstiel, chairman of Schenley Industries Inc.
Summers claimed that Hoover did not pursue organized crime because the Mafia had blackmail material on him. In support of that, Summers quoted Mrs. Rosenstiel as saying that in 1958, she was at a party at the Plaza Hotel where Hoover engaged in cross-dressing in front of her then-husband and Roy Cohn, former counsel to Sen. Joe McCarthy.
"He [Hoover] was wearing a fluffy black dress, very fluffy, with flounces and lace stockings and high heels, and a black curly wig," Summers quoted Susan as saying. "He had makeup on and false eyelashes."
She went on to assert that Hoover later engaged in sex with young boys, adding that her former husband followed suit.
A year later, she said she saw Hoover at New York's Plaza Hotel, this time wearing a red dress. Around his neck was a black feather boa. He was holding a Bible, and he asked one of the blond boys to read a passage as another boy played with him.
The jacket of the book says: "Mafia bosses obtained information about Hoover's sex life and used it for decades to keep the FBI at bay. Without this, the Mafia as we know it might never have gained its hold on America."
Let’s start with, Susan Rosenstiel, the primary source for the cross-dressing story Not exactly a credible witness. She served time at Riker's Island for perjuring herself in a 1971 case. But we all know perjury does not mean anything, right?
She had it in for Hoover because she believed had worked against her during her divorce proceedings, and had long tried to interest anyone who would listen that Hoover was a cross-dresser. She even took her stories to Robert M. Morgenthau, the U.S. attorney in New York, who himself had no use for Hoover.
"She used to call me after 5:30 p.m. when my secretary had left, so I wound up having to listen to her," Morgenthau told Kessler, adding that he found her claims baseless. However he did share those allegations with William Hundley, who had a Justice Department attorney look into them.
"Susie Rosenstiel had a total ax to grind," Hundley told Kessler. "Somebody who worked for me talked to her. It was made up out of whole cloth. She hated Hoover for some alleged wrong he had done. Plus the story was beyond belief. I told Summers this. Then he goes ahead and uses it."
Many have written that Hoover, allegedly silenced by the Mafia because they had the goods on him, was tireless and relentlessly going after the mob, starting with top mobster Meyer Lansky.
Writes Kessler: "In an Esquire piece, Peter Maas, a world class journalist who died in 2001, pointed out that Summers's rendition of events has a fatal flaw: After the alleged incident at the Plaza, Hoover assigned agents to investigate Lansky, who supposedly had the goods on him. When the Miami Field Office complained that the investigation of Lansky was not producing enough information to justify the manpower, Hoover wrote back, ‘Lansky has been designated for "crash" investigation. The importance of this case cannot be overemphasized. ... The bureau expects this investigation to be vigorous and detailed."
"Still presumably cowering because Lansky had incriminating photos of him, Hoover followed up with an order to install bugs in Lansky's apartment. Having been ordered by Robert Kennedy to attack the Mafia as the FBI had attacked Communism, Hoover wrote in the January 1962 FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, ‘The battle is joined. We have taken up the gauntlet flung down by organized crime. Let us unite in a devastating assault to annihilate this mortal enemy.’ Yet even before Kennedy took over, Hoover, stung by the disclosure of the 1957 Apalachin meeting, had been pursuing the mob aggressively."
Hoover was more familiar to Americans than the presidents. The director of the FBI simply could not have engaged in such activity at the Plaza, with a number of witnesses present, without having it leak out. Anyone who believes otherwise is engaging in self-delusion to which liberals cling with the unshakable faith of blithering idiots.
Tragically, the utterly false Hoover cross-dressing myth is now widely believed, even to the extent of providing grist for the late-night TV comedians' mill. A nation that should be expressing its gratitude to Hoover's memory for his long and dedicated service to his country instead treats him as an object of slander and derision.
These lies won't stop the left from spreading them far and wide. That's their sleazy stock in trade.

http://www.nsa.gov/docs/venona/

And one last time:All of the conservatives during the Veitnam era [and the younger conservatives during Desert Storm] could have gone to any Army,Navy,Air Force or Marine recruiter and volunteered to join and asked to be sent to the war or ask to help the war effort in some way.

None of them did.


It's obvious they didn't because they are pro-war, as long as the working class fights the war instead of them.

If this pathetic smear campaign is the best you can do against Kerry,he's gonna win BIG!

What in the hell is your post [which is longer than "War And Peace"] about CYLLON?

All I see is hubris,hyperbole,emotionalism,sensationalism,giber ish ,rehtoric and demagoguery.

Mc Carthy created the climate for it all to happen,and I only gave two examples [and both of them were totally innocent people] there are many more innocent people hurt, in all professions.

Actaully,the first red-baiter was Parnell Roberts,who was later kicked out of office for corruption of all sorts [including putting his relatives on the public payroll,then getting kickbacks for it].


Nothing I actually said has been refuted,including the FACT that not one SPECIFIC charge made my Mc Carthy about anybody has been backed up by Venona.

Once again,Venona does undermine some of the orthodoxy of the left,but it also undermines some of the orthodoxy of the right as well.

I just got a new book the other day about this very subject.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0679443991.01._PE30_PI_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Reds : McCarthyism in Twentieth-Century America (2003)
by Ted Morgan

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679443991/qid=1076639545/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-1241910-2787021?v=glance&s=books

But they all avoided Veitnam in one undebatable way,they all could have gone to a recruiterand volunteered for the armed forces and ask to be sent to Veitnam ,and there are no records of any of them doing that.

So medical deferments and educational deferments are bad?
How do you know their motivations for doing so?
Do you know how many people, including liberals like Moe Howard Dean got a deferment?


Likewise ,Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter could have voluntereed for Desert Storm and didn't.

Did you?

Did you for the Bosnia war?

It doesn't matter if you're a draft-dodger,draft- avoider,or one who advocates war for others but not themselves,it's all part of the same hypocrisy that shows modern conservatives for the phonies they are.

So anyone who approves of war, but does not sign up is a hypocrite? Lets be very clear in your charge here. Is that what you are saying?


I repeat,not one SPECIFIC charge Mc Carthy made against any individual was backed up by Venona.

I saw a guy on C-Span who wote the defintiive book on Venona,he said what I just did [and he saw all the files].

He's an anti-Commie,and he despises Mc Carthy as a oppertunist and a demagogue.


LOL.
Lets start at the beginning.

Do you agree that there were communists infiltrated in the US government during that time period?

Its a yes or no. After you answer that, we will move forward to the next question.

John Henry Faulk for one.

John Henry Faulk was allegedly put on a list produced by a private company called AWARE Inc.

The Venona transcripts also validate that there was much contact, and coorespondence with the CPUSA so your claim that they were innocently "duped" is questionable.

Regarding the Rosenbergs, at the very absolute least, they prove she was complicit. They gave her the death sentence to put pressure on Julius. Indeed Hoover was against the death penalty because the exact scope of her involvment was unknown but it is a fact, because of Venona, that she was complicit in the whole matter.

Maybe you're so extreme to the right you have blinders on to anything else,even moderates or free thinkers?

So your response is that I'm a right winger.
What a masterful display of intelligence.

Here's a lot of conservatives who dodged the draft

Great. Now where is your supporting evidence that proves they purposely avoided service?

What about Moe Howard Dean?

What about Clinton? He LIED about his intent to sign up for a ROTC course.

What in the hell is your post [which is longer than "War And Peace"] about CYLLON?

All I see is hubris,hyperbole,emotionalism,sensationalism,giber
ish ,rehtoric and demagoguery.


Why don't you come up with a factual, logical response to his post rather than spewing out your own emotionalism, giber, rhetoric, and demagoguery?

His post is completely right. McCarthy was a Senator. He had no involvement with HUAC (HOUSE as in house of REPRESENTATIVES) of un-American Activity Commission.

Trying to blame McCarthy for HUAC's work is dishonest. WHat a surprise coming from you.



And one last time:All of the conservatives during the Veitnam era [and the younger conservatives during Desert Storm] could have gone to any Army,Navy,Air Force or Marine recruiter and volunteered to join and asked to be sent to the war or ask to help the war effort in some way.

None of them did.


It's obvious they didn't because they are pro-war, as long as the working class fights the war instead of them.

Just like the rich, elite, liberals.

If this pathetic smear campaign is the best you can do against Kerry,he's gonna win BIG!

DNC Chairman McAwfulle picked this fight. Perhaps you should address him for picking it.

Jeez anyone who today sees McCarthy as an American hero instead of the Opportunist, paranoid, individual he was needs to take their medication on a more regular basis.

Generally, people who attack McCarthy are ignorant, left wing, liberal anti-Americans with communist sympathies.

In addition to the book Vespasian mentioned, also check out:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0895262754.01._PE30_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895262754/qid=1076694502/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4251161-1147315?v=glance&s=books)

GanjaFreebird unconsciously brought up two interesting points. First, he stereotypes millions of people based on his personal interaction with a small number. I would be surprised if he would not be hysterically calling people all kinds of "names" if someone made similar generalizations about other groups. Second, his liberal, left wing ideology is based on an agenda and a neurotic paranoia as a result of perceived misreatment in the past. Therefore, he and those like him who invariably vote democrat do so because they have a seething hatred for the Christian West and have a desire to destroy it.

What is with this movement to "reclaim" McCarthy? The man was a drunk, and either an amoral opportunist willing to ruin the lives of countless innocents, or a paranoid ideologue seeing commies under every bed.

Originally posted by Truth Teller
What in the hell is your post [which is longer than "War And Peace"] about CYLLON?

All I see is hubris,hyperbole,emotionalism,sensationalism,giber ish ,rehtoric and demagoguery.

Mc Carthy created the climate for it all to happen,and I only gave two examples [and both of them were totally innocent people] there are many more innocent people hurt, in all professions.

Actaully,the first red-baiter was Parnell Roberts,who was later kicked out of office for corruption of all sorts [including putting his relatives on the public payroll,then getting kickbacks for it].


Nothing I actually said has been refuted,including the FACT that not one SPECIFIC charge made my Mc Carthy about anybody has been backed up by Venona.

Once again,Venona does undermine some of the orthodoxy of the left,but it also undermines some of the orthodoxy of the right as well. It was clear and it ate your lunch. You were refuted. I think I will add you to the ignoe list:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Powerboss


So medical deferments and educational deferments are bad?



They are hypocritical.


How do you know their motivations for doing so?



If they were in sufficiant health [or could be corrected by minor surgey in the case of Limbaugh] and if they were otherwsie pro-war ,then why else would they sit it out?


Do you know how many people, including liberals like Moe Howard Dean got a deferment?


Dean and Clinton were opposed to the war,so they weren't hypocrites for not going.



Did you?




I was opposed oppoed the Gulf War,plus I was probably overage for enlistment [or very close to it] and I wouldn't have passsed the physical.


Did you for the Bosnia war?


I was overage for enlistment and I wouldn't have passed the physcial if I wasn't.


So anyone who approves of war, but does not sign up is a hypocrite? Lets be very clear in your charge here. Is that what you are saying?


Yes,unless one was overage or having a major illness [both of which were true in my case].

Let me tell you something wiseguy,I tried to join the Army in '74 [the week after Ford became president in fact] because Veitnam was over,I thought at least I'd get to go to Europe and the GI Bill would pay for my college two years later [when I would be 20].

I didn't pass the physical.

Did you ever try to enlist?



Do you agree that there were communists infiltrated in the US government during that time period?

Its a yes or no. After you answer that, we will move forward to the next question.

It cannot be answered by a simple "yes" or "no",it's not black and white,there are many shades of grey.


John Henry Faulk was allegedly put on a list produced by a private company called AWARE Inc.


It's all the same odious beast,they all fed off each other like pigs at a trough.


The Venona transcripts also validate that there was much contact, and coorespondence with the CPUSA so your claim that they were innocently "duped" is questionable.


In regards to most of the Party leadership that is true [and I never claimed otherwise ],I'm talking about the rank and file members of CPUSA.


Regarding the Rosenbergs, at the very absolute least, they prove she was complicit. They gave her the death sentence to put pressure on Julius. Indeed Hoover was against the death penalty because the exact scope of her involvment was unknown but it is a fact, because of Venona, that she was complicit in the whole matter.


That's your spin,they still show she was not guilty of what she was convcited of,her brother [who was let go] was way more guilty then she was,she was basically an innocent bystander.


Great. Now where is your supporting evidence that proves they purposely avoided service?


C'mon,are you that badly in denial? :rolleyes:


What about Moe Howard Dean?

What about Clinton? He LIED about his intent to sign up for a ROTC course.


They dodged the draft,I never said they didn't.

I said they aren't hypocrites because they were against the Veitnam War [as any logical person was].


Why don't you come up with a factual, logical response to his post rather than spewing out your own emotionalism, giber, rhetoric, and demagoguery?


How can I respond to something that makes no fricking sense?

Besides ,it vioalted the TOS about posting long articles.


His post is completely right. McCarthy was a Senator. He had no involvement with HUAC (HOUSE as in house of REPRESENTATIVES) of un-American Activity Commission.

Trying to blame McCarthy for HUAC's work is dishonest. WHat a surprise coming from you.


It's all related,different feathers,same bird.


Just like the rich, elite, liberals.


Or the rich,elite,conservatives.


DNC Chairman McAwfulle picked this fight. Perhaps you should address him for picking it.

:bs:,this is gonna be an ugly race and the ugliness will be the right's fault.

It's about time the left has started fighting back,long overdue if you ask me.

Sorry PB, if your jerks have the right to attack , then we have the right to fight back and we will.



Originally posted by Snouter
Generally, people who attack McCarthy are ignorant, left wing, liberal anti-Americans with communist sympathies.



Generally,people who support Mc Carthy are

ignorant,
right wing,conservative,racist,bigoted,anti-Americans with KKK and Nazi sympathies.

Originally posted by Sinclair
What is with this movement to "reclaim" McCarthy? The man was a drunk, and either an amoral opportunist willing to ruin the lives of countless innocents, or a paranoid ideologue seeing commies under every bed.

:nice:

Originally posted by CYLLON
It was clear and it ate your lunch.


Better check for botulism. :D


You were refuted.


You're a legend in your own mind CYLLON.:rolleyes:


I think I will add you to the ignoe list:rolleyes:

Coming from you that's a compliment.

I believe that more accurately, he made the charges that there were communists inside of these administrations, which the facts bear out.

These "communist" administrations saved America and the world from evil and poverty. Truman and Roosevelt, while far from perfect, were better than any other president for the last 100 years or so.

Of course he was condemned by many. Many did distance themselves becuase the press has done a masterful job of revising the historical record. He became radioactive. It does not change the validity of what he charged.

BS. Even very right-wing anti-communist politicians condemned him because he would do any goddamn thing to increase his power and destroy his ennemies.

In fact, these days, conservatives like David Horowitz use "McCarthysm" to attack leftists. Any sane person, right or left, would distance himself from that junkie lunatic.

Generally,people who support Mc Carthy are

ignorant,
right wing,conservative,racist,bigoted,anti-Americans with KKK and Nazi sympathies.


True, but even sane people with that description wouldn't even support him. A person who still supports that idiot has to be mentally challenged.[

QUOTE]Anyway,the guy who went to Russia said he saw way more drinking there then he ever saw anyplace else in his life,but he also didn't see any winos on the street and the streets of Moscow were always clean.

Still,[though he was glad he went] he'd take any U.S. city [warts and all] over Moscow.[/QUOTE]

Very true, I've lived there, and everything said here is correct.

Generally, people who attack McCarthy are ignorant, left wing, liberal anti-Americans with communist sympathies.

You mean Jim McCarthy, the drummer? I actually know liberals who like The Yardbirds. And I agree that anybody who writes songs like "Shapes of Things " shouldn't be attacked either, lol.

Give up Snouter, your arguements are idiotic at the very best. If Eisenhower, Truman, Tricky Dick, and David Horowitz among others are ultra-leftist anti-american communists, then I don't think there is anybody who is actually not. Any (at least partially) sane person, right or left, condmened McCarthy.

GanjaFreebird unconsciously brought up two interesting points. First, he stereotypes millions of people based on his personal interaction with a small number. I would be surprised if he would not be hysterically calling people all kinds of "names" if someone made similar generalizations about other groups.

Oh, this is BS, and any person with common sense knows that.

Yeah, Russian people drink, this is a fact, and there's nothing wrong by saying that. Just like Black people who smoke weed, usually smoke it in blunts, rather than joints. That's not racist of me saying that. Now, when somebody like you says that Black people are thiefs and criminals, it's not only false, but very racist.

Second, his liberal, left wing ideology is based on an agenda and a neurotic paranoia as a result of perceived misreatment in the past. Therefore, he and those like him who invariably vote democrat do so because they have a seething hatred for the Christian West and have a desire to destroy it.

HAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAHAAAA.

Let's get real here. Since when I am a democrat, let alone vote?
First of all, I dislike the democrats in general almost as much as I dislike most republicans. Second, I don't vote because I'm not a citizen yet. Third, if I did vote, I would vote either Libertarian or Natural Law.

My "liberal, left wing ideology"? I'm not even a leftist, in fact I'm conservative on economy, gun rights and some foreign policy. Also, when it comes to Israeli politics, (although I used to be pro-oslo), I think that Sharon is not tough enough on terrorists.
Am I liberal? Somewhat, but not a "democrat liberal".
Leftist? On social issues, but generally I'm a libertarian.

"neurotic paranoia"? Hey, it's not me here who supports a man who was paranoid to the point that he saw commies under his bed.

"as a result of perceived misreatment in the past"? C'mon, I was making a point that the REAL commies were actually mistreating me and my family for many years, and as anti-communist as I am, I think McCarthy was a piece of trash, and almost as bad as them. He did nothing good to those who suffered from the real communists, but helped the communists make their point that America is bad.

Ignorant rednecks like you hate commies because you think that they were "terrible evil liberals like hillary", yet, none of you, nor McCarthy, nor Reagan actually knew what was really so evil about communists.

they have a seething hatred for the Christian West and have a desire to destroy it

Let's get real, there is no such thing as the Christian West anymore, nor should any religion control the west. America is not a Christian nation, nor should it be, and I love this country, and hate people who actually want to destroy it, be it muslim fanatics, nazis, McCarthists, communists, and you name it.

I love freedom and don't want it to be destroyed, that's all.

If I could have a dollar for every person who claims not to be a leftist, yet espouses leftist ideals, I'd be a rich man.

There's nothing wrong with many, if not most, leftist ideals. I love freedom, that's why I'm very liberal on social issues such as women's choice, war on drugs, sex laws and freedom of speech. I'm generaly a libertarian though.

GanjaFreebird, you made a spelling error that would normally be irrelevent, but because you chose to play word games, you made it relevent. Notwithstanding the Jeff Beck CD Truth, in which the great Rod Stewart does the vocals and Epic printed his name "McCarthy" with the "h," everywhere where else including the Yardbirds homepage spells the Yardbirds' McCarty's name with "h." By the way, I would say guitarist Gary Moore's version is probably the definitive version of Shapes of Things. But you are too ignorant, insecure, and close minded to listen to intense musicianship that threatens your little idols.

Originally posted by GangaFreebird
Yeah, Russian people drink, this is a fact, and there's nothing wrong by saying that.

He is generalizing and stereotyping which is fine, but is not what politically correct, Christian West destroying multiculturalists like him normally admit to.

Originally posted by GangaFreebird
Just like Black people who smoke weed, usually smoke it in blunts, rather than joints. That's not racist of me saying that.

The corresponding analogy would be GangaFreebird saying that since many blacks smoke dope of some kind, most blacks smoke dope of some kind. He is getting good at denying the truth though. He is learning well from his mentor, the truth denying guru. LOL :p

Originally posted by GangaFreebird
Now, when somebody like you says that Black people are thiefs and criminals, it's not only false, but very racist.

But our junior truth denier insists that since if many of a group display a certain behavior, most of the group inherently has the same behavior. Why would he deny the truth about black crime patterns? Why does GangjaFreebird insist on being a hypocrite? And what is up with the double talk about being left on everything except when it comes to promoting Zionism?

But getting back on topic, it is clear John Kerry is a fake, phoney fraud. He is a Ted Kennedy socialist, which is even farther to the left than Bush.

You categorize Bush as being towards the left?!?!?!?

I am baffled.

It is NOT nessacary to call another member a Hypocrite snouter

Debate, don't call people names

and if you can't do that...remove yourself from the offending situation..take a deep breath...and the return with a clear head

Oh please. Now hypocrite is out of bounds?

Do you know how many times that word has been thrown around here?


BTW, is redneck a slur?

Redneck? I suspect in your case Power it would be a compliment :)

Why would he deny the truth about black crime patterns?

Oh, whatever, I've seen more white criminals than black, and I've seen white people do worse sh!t that anybody else. So what? I fail to see any of that "truth".

Why does GangjaFreebird insist on being a hypocrite?

Just because I said most russians drink, and most pot-smoking blacks in America smoke blunts, but I refuse to agree with your racist bs that most blacks are criminals?

And what is up with the double talk about being left on everything except when it comes to promoting Zionism?

First of all, Zionism was created by mostly leftist people. Look at Israel's founding fathers, and in fact it used to be a socialist country.

Also, I'm with the right on economy, gun control, small government and some foreign policy. I fail to see how am I such a great leftist, and even if I was, there is nothing wrong with that.

He is generalizing and stereotyping which is fine, but is not what politically correct, Christian West destroying multiculturalists like him normally admit to.

How do I destroy the "chiristian west"? I don't remember burning a church lately, lol.

Notwithstanding the Jeff Beck CD Truth, in which the great Rod Stewart does the vocals

Rod Stewart did some great work with Jeff Beck and his early stuff was really good, before he went into doing pop and disco.

He is a good singer, but he's overrated, and in fact he doesn't hold a candle to Robert Plant, Paul Rodgers, Elvis, Eric Burdon, Otis Redding, Paul McCartney or James Brown. Even the very underrated Keith Relf is so much better.

I would say guitarist Gary Moore's version is probably the definitive version of Shapes of Things.

Never heard it, and although Jeff Beck is a better guitarist, I wouldn't be surprised if Gary Moore has a better version.

But you are too ignorant, insecure, and close minded to listen to intense musicianship that threatens your little idols.

Actually I know quite a bit about rock music, and for the matter of fact, I like Gary Moore alot. No, he's no SRV, Clapton or Hendrix, but he is still great. And who are my "little idols"? The millions of bands and artists that I listen to?

nevermind

I did a search Powerboss. It turned up 315 (http://www.discussanything.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=130125&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending) threads. I don't suppose this includes archives either.

You categorize Bush as being towards the left?!?!?!?

I am baffled.

I would.

Bush has expanded the government/pro big government.
Bush has spent more than any liberal ever has.
Bush attempted to renew the so-called "assault weapons ban"
Bush has done nothing to protect our borders.
Bush has granted amnesty to millions of illegals.
Bush stands behnd the PATRIOT Act.
Bush stands behind the idea of pre-emptive war, an idea that Trotsky wrote about.

Redneck? I suspect in your case Power it would be a compliment

Well, seeing as I come from the North and all, who knows.

My point is that Im sure Ganja wouldn't like him and his fellow jews being called Kike's or something derogatory like that yet he demonizes an entire group of people himself, something Hitler did.


You would think him of all people would realize this.

I did a search Powerboss. It turned up 315 threads. I don't suppose this includes archives either.

Indeed. I know for a fact that Kanuckistang and I have exchanged this word towards each other about a billion times here..

Im not even going to guess why suddenly now its word non grata, I don't like the answer that I've just thought of.


I would.

Bush has expanded the government/pro big government.
Bush has spent more than any liberal ever has.
Bush attempted to renew the so-called "assault weapons ban"
Bush has done nothing to protect our borders.
Bush has granted amnesty to millions of illegals.
Bush stands behnd the PATRIOT Act.
Bush stands behind the idea of pre-emptive war, an idea that Trotsky wrote about.

I would too although there are a couple of things I don't particilarily agree with you in regards to that list.

Regarding amnesty, he PROPOSED it. He has not done diddly and I don't think Congress will let him.

Bush said he'd sign the AWB. Of course Congress has no plan to even bring it up for renewal.

How is the PA a liberal thing?

I stand behind the idea of "pre-emptive" war as well. Does that make me a filthy liberal Gary?

Regarding amnesty, he PROPOSED it. He has not done diddly and I don't think Congress will let him.

Alright, proposal... It's the fact that he proposed it.

Bush said he'd sign the AWB. Of course Congress has no plan to even bring it up for renewal.

We are not talking about congress. We are talking about intent.

How is the PA a liberal thing?

Because it infringes upon individual rights and circumvents the constitution.

I stand behind the idea of "pre-emptive" war as well. Does that make me a filthy liberal Gary?

It depends. Do you really understand the ethics and morality as to why pre-emptive war is wrong? If you do, and condone it anyway, then you are definately sliding towards moral relativity, which is definately a liberal convention.

My point is that Im sure Ganja wouldn't like him and his fellow jews being called Kike's or something derogatory like that yet he demonizes an entire group of people himself, something Hitler did.

What's wrong about being called "redneck"? I have many friends who are rednecks. And the difference is that one has the option of being a redneck or not, but if I'm Jew, I can't change that, so therefore, there is no link between being called redneck or a "kike".

What's wrong about being called "redneck"?

We both know its a derogatory term.

Here is the definition from dictionary.com

Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.

A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.

I have many friends who are rednecks. And the difference is that one has the option of being a redneck or not, but if I'm Jew, I can't change that,

If rednecks have the option of changing then you also have the option of changing your religion.

so therefore, there is no link between being called redneck or a "kike".


Are they both derogatory terms used to describe people or a group of people?
Yes or no. Simple question.

Excellent points Powerboss! Like you, I took issue with the two exceptions you pointed out on Turbostang's list. GanjaFreebird is exercising his right to double talk again and, in addition, apparently thinks he can't convert to Christianity for some strange reason. He apparently enjoys the advantages of perpetual victimhood.

We are not talking about congress. We are talking about intent.

Indeed. He would lose a lot of support if he were to resign this.
My thoughts are that he said it just to take the issue off the table knowing that congress wasn't going to touch it.

Nothing noble about that, Im just saying that is what I think his motivation was. Typical of a politician.

Because it infringes upon individual rights and circumvents the constitution.


I have yet to lose any rights or had any infringed upon.

It depends. Do you really understand the ethics and morality as to why pre-emptive war is wrong? If you do, and condone it anyway, then you are definately sliding towards moral relativity, which is definately a liberal convention.

I don't believe that it is wrong. If someone is planning on setting off a nuke on our soil I welcome us doing something about it pre-emptively.
We're not talking about a few hundred or even a few thousand dead, we are talking hundreds of thousands. If their deaths can be prevented than I am all for it. To only do something after the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, knowing that we could've prevented it is nonsensical. Lets hope that anyone you know isn't part of that couple hundred thousand you are willing to sacrifice.

To just start wars, for no reason, yes, I would agree that it is wrong but in the face of threats that can wipe out cities in a matter of moments than it is completely just.

Originally posted by Powerboss



My point is that Im sure Ganja wouldn't like him and his fellow jews being called Kike's or something derogatory like that yet he demonizes an entire group of people himself, something Hitler did.


You have demonized many groups of people ,so who are you to complain?


[i]Originally posted by Powerboss


We both know its a derogatory term.


And you use derogatory terms and make derogatory cracks,so who are you to complain?


A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.



Though I don't use that word,that defintion perfectly describes the most extreme right-wingers here at DA.



If rednecks have the option of changing then you also have the option of changing your religion.


Thinly disguised anti-Semitism?



Are they both derogatory terms used to describe people or a group of people?
Yes or no. Simple question.

Don't awnser it GF.

He uses "yes or no" questions to try and lead people thorough a maze to then try and trap people.

Do what I do,refuse to walk in his trap.

Make him debate honestly.

Aren't y'all a bit off the topic

How about some redneck jokes then :)

You have demonized many groups of people [including Jews],so who are you to complain?

As ususal, you completely miss the point.

I am not complaining, You as well as I do our part in demonizing groups. I am trying to clarify why demonizing one group is allowed but not another. If I started saying "Ni-gg-ers" or "kykes" all the time I would be banned, yet somehow "redneck" is tolerated.
The other point is that I would expect Jews above all people to be the most sensitive in regards to slurs or stereotypes yet he seems to want to follow Hitlers lead in demonizing a group of people, something I find astounding.

And you use derogatory terms and make derogatory cracks,so who are you to complain?

As ususal, you completely miss the point.

I remember when it was being debated if the word "homo" would be allowed on this website. Certain people thought it should not be allowed, others did.
I am all for people saying what they want to say, if they want to say "Redneck", fine but then the same standard should also apply if another person wants to say "Kaffur" or "Kyke" or "Ni-gg-er" (in fact it gets filtered out). Yet, the person who says Kaffur or any of those other words in context will be banned and the person that says Redneck will face no consequences.

Are you beginning to grasp this yet or is it over your head?
I've tried to make it as simple as I can for you.


Thinly disguised anti-Semitism?.

Once again, as usual, Truth Teller plays the card that he plays in every thread in which he cannot debate.

LOL. How is that?

Don't awnser it GF.

He uses "yes or no" questions to try and lead people thorough a maze to then try and trap people.

Do what I do,refuse to walk in his trap.

Make him debate honestly.

You've already demonstrated your cowardice when debating in avoiding answering questions that are put to you. Don't encourage others to do it as well. Its degrading.

What is the trap? Its a simple question.

I have yet to lose any rights or had any infringed upon.

The right to privacy is necessary for a free society to work.

All the FBI has to do is say that you are part of a foreign investigation, again no probable cause, and they can pry into your life all they want.

I don't believe that it is wrong. If someone is planning on setting off a nuke on our soil I welcome us doing something about it pre-emptively.
We're not talking about a few hundred or even a few thousand dead, we are talking hundreds of thousands. If their deaths can be prevented than I am all for it. To only do something after the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, knowing that we could've prevented it is nonsensical. Lets hope that anyone you know isn't part of that couple hundred thousand you are willing to sacrifice

To just start wars, for no reason, yes, I would agree that it is wrong but in the face of threats that can wipe out cities in a matter of moments than it is completely just.

I'm starting a new thread just for this topic.

Don't awnser it GF.

Actually, I will...

Are they both derogatory terms used to describe people or a group of people?
Yes or no. Simple question.

There is nothing derogatory about "redneck". It just describes simple, not very educated, working class americans, usually from the south. Again, many of my friends are rednecks (however not racist or ultra right wing), and they don't deny that, nor mind being called that. Plus, Lynyrd Skynyrd is one of my 10 favorite bands probably, so don't tell me that I'm a "bigot against rednecks".

Plus, the word "kike" would be irrelevant if there was never a discrimination against Jews. In fact, I have yet to find out when and where have rednecks been discriminated against for more than 2,000 years and and when somebody enslaved all rednecks for 400 years, or killed 6 millions of them just because they were rednecks.
You and I both know that the word "redneck" has no link to bigotery.


A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.

Sounds like Snouter and PB to me. I wonder why they complaining about.


If rednecks have the option of changing then you also have the option of changing your religion.

Get real, you can't be that stupid.

I could change my beliefs, but I would still be Jewish. In fact, a non-Jew can become a Jew, but a Jew cannot become a non-Jew, just a bad Jew. Hitler would kill anybody with Jewish blood, he didn't care about the person's religion at all.

GanjaFreebird is exercising his right to double talk again and, in addition, apparently thinks he can't convert to Christianity for some strange reason. He apparently enjoys the advantages of perpetual victimhood.

No, I gain no advantages of your so-called "perpetual victimhood".

I will not convert to Christianity because:

1. Judaism is closer to my beliefs and is a much better religion in my opinion, that represents a lot of my values, while I could never really understand christianity, nor it really spoke my beliefs in any way. In fact, I'd rather worship the real God, than a long haired Jew, that was proclaimed as a son of God by a few stupid Jewish people. Don't get me wrong, Jesus was cool, but no God, and the people who made Chrisitinity such as saints Paul and John (and I don't mean the Bealtes) are no good idiots in my personal opinion. Call me a bigot all you want, I just think that Christianity and even some Judaism are just good fairytales. I'd rather be a secular Jew, that's that best thing for me.

2. My people and even family members have been dying for thousands of years in the name of being Jewish. I have too much respect for my culture to be something else after all that.

3. Christianity did a whole lot of evil to Jews over the years, and while I have nothing against today's Christians and most of my friends either are christians or used to be, I still not gonna join a religion that killed my people over the years.

4. I'M PROUD TO BE JEWISH!!!! I am who I am, and I like myself enough not to change who I am just because some bigots and fundamentalist bullsh!tters think I should. In fact, I have yet to see anybody give me a reason why would I convert from being Jewish.


You have demonized many groups of people [including Jews],so who are you to complain?

And look who is complaining. The ones that say that "Blacks, Jews and liberal are whining and complaing".

If they gonna put down people, they might as well be big boys and face an answer.

They may be used to self-hating jewish cowards, but that ain't me.

There is nothing derogatory about "redneck". It just describes simple, not very educated, working class americans, usually from the south. Again, many of my friends are rednecks (however not racist or ultra right wing), and they don't deny that, nor mind being called that. Plus, Lynyrd Skynyrd is one of my 10 favorite bands probably, so don't tell me that I'm a "bigot against rednecks".


Prescious. Despite given the dictionary terms of the word you disregard it and make up your own definition.

Thank you for affirming and demonstrating that relativism is indeed a trait of the far left.

Your personal definition means nothing, it is the common held definition which is relevant. We all know when that word usually gets thrown around it is used in a disparaging manner.

You obviously do have bigoted tendencies, your exact quote is below.
You used the term to somehow elevate your knowledge of affairs while demeaning a group of people that you believe are not as intelligent as you are.

I know and understand the evils of communism more than any redneck who never went outside of USA.

Meaning, rednecks are somehow dumber than you. You know more than them. How is this a teenager knows more than any redneck who never went outside of the USA?
I know plenty of people from the South, I can assure you that their intelligence exceeds yours.

Plus, the word "kike" would be irrelevant if there was never a discrimination against Jews. In fact, I have yet to find out when and where have rednecks been discriminated against for more than 2,000 years and and when somebody enslaved all rednecks for 400 years, or killed 6 millions of them just because they were rednecks.


Irrelivant. Being persecuted is not the qualifier for slurs, stereotypes, or disparaging generalizations.

You and I both know that the word "redneck" has no link to bigotery.

Sure it does. Liberals use the term to demean people so they can elevate themselves because it makes them feel better about themselves.


Sounds like Snouter and PB to me. I wonder why they complaining about.

It applies equally to you. You are the one claiming superiority over an entire group of people here. That is the definition of bigotry. Congratulations. Bigot.

Furthermore, we are not complaining, we are exposing your hyocracy and bigotry, and enjoying it.


Get real, you can't be that stupid.

I could change my beliefs, but I would still be Jewish. In fact, a non-Jew can become a Jew, but a Jew cannot become a non-Jew, just a bad Jew. Hitler would kill anybody with Jewish blood, he didn't care about the person's religion at all.

You do not have to practice your religion nor do you have to announce it therefore nobody would know. You could very easily chang