I'm writing to ask you to join me in signing a "Recall No! Democracy Yes!" pledge to defeat the California recall. Click here to sign:

http://moveon.org/pac/recall/?id=-640540-_C3z6ZGo.vpWKTjZtTTnmg

If the recall succeeds, it will set a dangerous precedent for the whole country. A far-right businessman spent 1.7 million dollars to bring us the recall campaign, and has thrown California into chaos. GOP leaders who should have condemned the recall instead cheered it on, hoping they could gain from the unraveling of our democracy.

We can't stand by and let this happen. These attacks on democracy are not a California issue or a Texas issue or a Florida issue -- we all must step forward together and make it clear that elections will be honored in this country.

This pledge is a national effort to mobilize one million California voters in the recall election. Please sign the pledge to defend democracy and oppose the recall. Please ask friends and family in California to sign the pledge and to remember to vote October 7.

http://moveon.org/pac/recall/?id=-640540-_C3z6ZGo.vpWKTjZtTTnmg

Thank you.

Hey Jed, I signed the document. I completely agree that the recall is an attack on our democratic system. We have elections for a reason -- and there is no telling what might happen if we suddenly decide that we can recall anyone we don't like. Davis won fair and square and he deserves to finish his term. The only thing that makes this recall effort any different from the revolutions staged in second and third world countries is that no one has died yet as a result of it. We need to respect the democratic process by voting no on the recall -- otherwise, we're nothing but a banana republic.

I signed it. I think that voters need a recourse if the official is running the state (or whichever office) into the ground. However, if a Republican wins (which it appears will be the case) the Democrats will turn around and do the same thing. This will start to show up everywhere and destroy the electoral process as we know it.

I completely agree with you dhaas. I support recalling corrupt/criminal officials -- but I do not agree with recalling anyone that you decide isn't up to par.

Originally posted by igofast
I'm writing to ask you to join me in signing a "Recall No! Democracy Yes!" pledge to defeat the California recall. Click here to sign:

http://moveon.org/pac/recall/?id=-640540-_C3z6ZGo.vpWKTjZtTTnmg

If the recall succeeds, it will set a dangerous precedent for the whole country. A far-right businessman spent 1.7 million dollars to bring us the recall campaign, and has thrown California into chaos. GOP leaders who should have condemned the recall instead cheered it on, hoping they could gain from the unraveling of our democracy.

We can't stand by and let this happen. These attacks on democracy are not a California issue or a Texas issue or a Florida issue -- we all must step forward together and make it clear that elections will be honored in this country.

This pledge is a national effort to mobilize one million California voters in the recall election. Please sign the pledge to defend democracy and oppose the recall. Please ask friends and family in California to sign the pledge and to remember to vote October 7.

http://moveon.org/pac/recall/?id=-640540-_C3z6ZGo.vpWKTjZtTTnmg

Thank you.
I would if Davis changes his stance on ferret ownership.

Also if he changes his view on the death penalty. Even though I dislike Republicans I see nothing good about that guy.

Crim, I don't like Davis either, but I dislike the recall even more.

If the recall succeeds, it will set a dangerous precedent for the whole country.
Yes, think of what a terrible message we'll be sending to our leaders: If you do a poor job you'll be fired.

:rolleyes:

Hey Jed, I signed the document. I completely agree that the recall is an attack on our democratic system. We have elections for a reason -- and there is no telling what might happen if we suddenly decide that we can recall anyone we don't like.
Yes, God forbid the government does the people's bidding. Oh, imagine the horror of it!

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by igofast


If the recall succeeds, it will set a dangerous precedent for the whole country.

How so? The recall process is enumerated within the state constitution of California. The recall is proceeding according to state law. How does this set a precedant for the rest of the country?



We can't stand by and let this happen. These attacks on democracy are not a California issue or a Texas issue or a Florida issue -- we all must step forward together and make it clear that elections will be honored in this country.

This is an exercise in democracy. What about it bothers you so? Is it because Davis is a lib? Were you as upset when it was attempted twice against Reagan when he was governor? Why should'nt Californians be allowed to conduct state political exercises free from national interference?

Please sign the pledge to defend democracy and oppose the recall. Please ask friends and family in California to sign the pledge and to remember to vote October 7.

An exercise in futility. The opinions of the other 49 states will not change California state law.

Originally posted by Allegra
I completely agree that the recall is an attack on our democratic system. We have elections for a reason -- and there is no telling what might happen if we suddenly decide that we can recall anyone we don't like.

Apparently you've failed to recognize that the recall process has existed in California's constitution for about 100 years. Nothing sudden about it, and it's been tried 30 or more times in the past. Davis, however, has screwed things up so monumentally, that this time it has a pretty good chance of succeeding.

Originally posted by DngrMse
Is it because Davis is a lib?
No, I don't like Davis

Were you as upset when it was attempted twice against Reagan when he was governor?
No, I was a child. Had I been an adult with the knowledge I have today, yes.

Originally posted by igofast

No, I don't like Davis


No, I was a child. Had I been an adult with the knowledge I have today, yes.

Ok. You're a Californian, so you should know the answers to these next questions.

1. The recall process exists in the state Constitution, and when exercised allows for a measure of direct democracy not available in many other states. What is it about the exercise of direct democracy bothers you, and how does the application of our laws influence the other 49 states?

2. Over 30 percent of the people who signed the petition for this recall were democrats. Over 60 percent of Californians favor recalling Gray Davis. Why is it a bad thing to put this question to the voters?

3. This election is open to every eligible voter in the state, so how does this it 'unravel' our democracy?

4. As best I can figure from what you've written, the people should never be trusted with the 'power' to remove politicians from office. Regardless of what they've done, we're stuck with them until the normal expiration of their terms. Right?

Originally posted by DngrMse
1. The recall process exists in the state Constitution, and when exercised allows for a measure of direct democracy not available in many other states. What is it about the exercise of direct democracy bothers you, and how does the application of our laws influence the other 49 states?
as far as the other 49 states, I really don't know, I didn't write the original post, just copied it. I suppose I should have noted that, but oh well.

As for what bothers me about it, see my answer below.

2. Over 30 percent of the people who signed the petition for this recall were democrats. Over 60 percent of Californians favor recalling Gray Davis. Why is it a bad thing to put this question to the voters?
This isn't a Repub/Dem issue.

3. This election is open to every eligible voter in the state, so how does this it 'unravel' our democracy?
See below.
4. As best I can figure from what you've written, the people should never be trusted with the 'power' to remove politicians from office. Regardless of what they've done, we're stuck with them until the normal expiration of their terms. Right?
No, I don't feel that way, I think the way this recall is set-up/being executed is bad.

Hypothetically, say 45% of voters like Davis and want to keep him. Based on that, the recall will succeed and another Governor will be elected. Whoever that person is that is elected will almost certainly be elected with a less than 45% vote. It is projected that the winning candidate could win with as little as 20% of the vote. Therefore the single politician involved that has the most support not only looses, but is removed from a democratically elected position.

Obviously Davis' approval isn't that high, but do see where the problem arrises?

On a related note, I also object to the recall and re-election happening at once. If there is a recall, it should be a seperate election without any replacement candidate names attached. Once that is done and it has been decided that the Governor is to be recalled, then candidates may speak up and announce their candidacy. The problem here is that the candidates running to replace Davis have too much influence on the Yes/No recall vote.

I am not against people removing politicians that are failing in their job, in fact I think it's a necessary part of a representative republic. However, the way it is currently set up is horrible.

One more minor objection I have is how the recall started in the first place. I don't like that the only way to get a recall vote is to spend a whole lot of money paying people to go out and get signitures supporting a recall. There is no recourse for Joe Schmoe to recall a politician on their own. I don't have a solution to that problem, but it's a problem nonetheless.

I am perfectly aware that the recall system has been in our Constitution. However, I believe it is intended for use against real corrupt criminals -- not just people who perform poorly in office. I think the people behind the recall are abusing the system.

The people behind the recall are extremely wealthy -- so wealthy that they have succeeded in a state-wide marketing barrage. If they are successful in ousting Davis, it will be because they were able to buy the recall process. Then imagine what will happen next:

Everytime a wealthy business person or special interest group is unhappy with the person in elected office, they will launch a recall campaign. Again, since they are wealthy, they'll buy the process and get their puppet-governer in office. Politicians will begin pandering to the wealthiest special interest groups to keep them happy -- thus corrupting and bastardizing the political process even further. The wealthiest citizens in California will be running the state. It is a well known fact that minorities and poor people do not vote consistantly -- so there will be no strong voice of opposition to this corruption.

We have an election process for a reason. We have term limits for a reason. Davis may be a poor governer, but that does not justify ousting him. He won the majority of the vote and not only deserves to serve his full term -- but is entitled to that right. If people are really that upset about it, they need to respect the process and vote somebody else into office once Davis' term is up.

Voting no on the recall is like finding out a girl has aids and screwing her anyway

Allegra, are you arguing that Davis is not corrupt?

Originally posted by Powerboss
Allegra, are you arguing that Davis is not corrupt?

He is no more corrupt than any other politician. Is he a bad governer? Yes. Is that cause to recall him? No.

Especially when considering who our president is!

I can't stand Bush -- however, that does not mean I have the right to recall/impeach him unless it is proven that he has committed some crime. It has not been proven that Davis has committed any crime -- this is just a case of whiners with money.

Honestly, Davis won more of the popular vote than Bush did! And Bush is just as much of a **** up as Davis...if not more so. Bush has gotten how many people killed/murdered in the middle east now?! Davis and his politics haven't killed/murdered anyone. Yeah, he cost Cali bazillions -- but Bush has cost the US bazillions also. What's the difference honestly? Both are crappy career politicians who personify all that's wrong/stagnant with American politics today.

I don't support Davis in any way. However, I am concerned with the principal of the matter. Davis won more of the popular vote than Bush. Bush's approval ratings are just about as low as Davis' are right now. That does not mean either of them should be recalled or impeached. People need to put their personal vendettas aside and respect the political process for what it was intended. Abuse for the sake of abuse (as this recall is) is plain ridiculous.

Beyond that, do we really want to elect someone who makes Terminator references during televised political debates?

Perhaps I'm the only Californian thinking, "hell no."

Originally posted by igofast

Hypothetically, say 45% of voters like Davis and want to keep him. Based on that, the recall will succeed and another Governor will be elected. Whoever that person is that is elected will almost certainly be elected with a less than 45% vote. It is projected that the winning candidate could win with as little as 20% of the vote. Therefore the single politician involved that has the most support not only looses, but is removed from a democratically elected position.


So the minority should have the final say? Did I read you right, in that if less than 50% want to keep Davis, then they should have their way? If more than 50%, (and right now it's about 63%), of people vote to remove Davis from office, then that should'nt count?


Obviously Davis' approval isn't that high, but do see where the problem arrises?

Yes, I see the problem. According to you, the 'side' with the least amount of votes should decide the outcome.


On a related note, I also object to the recall and re-election happening at once. If there is a recall, it should be a seperate election without any replacement candidate names attached. Once that is done and it has been decided that the Governor is to be recalled, then candidates may speak up and announce their candidacy. The problem here is that the candidates running to replace Davis have too much influence on the Yes/No recall vote.

We'd like to get this done in a timely fashion. Splitting this, (for no good reason, other than you don't like the recall process), will hardly improve things.

As it is now, everything will be decided on one day. How much sense would it make to vote to recall a criminal, then leave him in office for months on end, while a special election is put together. He's already 'misplaced' 38 billion dollars....and once he's recalled, (but remains in office), why not help himself to another 38 billion?


I am not against people removing politicians that are failing in their job, in fact I think it's a necessary part of a representative republic. However, the way it is currently set up is horrible.


You've failed to demonstrate how it's horrible, (other than that you believe the minority should decide this issue).

This is our system, it's been in place for about 100 years. Where were you two years ago on this issue? This whole thing reminds me of Gore, and his attempts to change the rules after the fact.

Originally posted by Allegra
I am perfectly aware that the recall system has been in our Constitution. However, I believe it is intended for use against real corrupt criminals -- not just people who perform poorly in office. I think the people behind the recall are abusing the system.


Davis is a criminal, and should not only be removed from office, but he should be jailed too. This is the only way to undo some of the terrible things he's done to our state.


The people behind the recall are extremely wealthy -- so wealthy that they have succeeded in a state-wide marketing barrage. If they are successful in ousting Davis, it will be because they were able to buy the recall process.

Bull, and sh**. You can go to the State governments web site, and review where all money in this came from. Most, (on the side of the recall), came from small donations by private citizens. The people behind this recall are Californians...like it or not.





We have an election process for a reason. We have term limits for a reason. Davis may be a poor governer, but that does not justify ousting him. He won the majority of the vote and not only deserves to serve his full term -- but is entitled to that right. If people are really that upset about it, they need to respect the process and vote somebody else into office once Davis' term is up.

The recall process is part of our election laws. Davis is only entitled to remain in office, so long as the voters in this state want him there. It's become obvious that they don't, and now, in a completely legal, and fair process, Davis is about to be fired.

Originally posted by DngrMse
So the minority should have the final say? Did I read you right, in that if less than 50% want to keep Davis, then they should have their way? If more than 50%, (and right now it's about 63%), of people vote to remove Davis from office, then that should'nt count?
No, you obviously aren't understanding, you have it backwards. Say arnold wins the recall with 30% of the vote, but 45% of Californians want to keep Davis, than the minority wins. You say 63% want to recall davis, that means he has 37% of the population behind him. The replacement candidate will most likely get less than 37%. That is exactly what I am saying is wrong - the minority shouldn't win.

Two things could be done to improve the recall:

1. Hold the recall vote first, then if it passes, other people can announce their candidacy.

2. Add Davis' name to the ballot so a new governor is not elected with a minority percentage of votes.

Signed it.

Here's a thought for you guys: Arnold has said he knows what is wrong with "Cah-lee-fohrn-yah" and that he knows how to fix it.

Have you heard him say anything to back that statement up? I haven't. I haven't heard him say a single goddamn thing about how he would fix things.

Originally posted by Stage Monster
Have you heard him say anything to back that statement up? I haven't. I haven't heard him say a single goddamn thing about how he would fix things.
Ditto. His campaign platform is "I'm a celebrity that has done bad things in the past, but I've changed and now I know how to do good things. Vote for me."

.He is no more corrupt than any other politician. Is he a bad governer? Yes. Is that cause to recall him? No.

Especially when considering who our president is!

I can't stand Bush -- however, that does not mean I have the right to recall/impeach him unless it is proven that he has committed some crime. It has not been proven that Davis has committed any crime -- this is just a case of whiners with money.

Honestly, Davis won more of the popular vote than Bush did! And Bush is just as much of a **** up as Davis...if not more so. Bush has gotten how many people killed/murdered in the middle east now?! Davis and his politics haven't killed/murdered anyone. Yeah, he cost Cali bazillions -- but Bush has cost the US bazillions also. What's the difference honestly? Both are crappy career politicians who personify all that's wrong/stagnant with American politics today.

I don't support Davis in any way. However, I am concerned with the principal of the matter. Davis won more of the popular vote than Bush. Bush's approval ratings are just about as low as Davis' are right now. That does not mean either of them should be recalled or impeached. People need to put their personal vendettas aside and respect the political process for what it was intended. Abuse for the sake of abuse (as this recall is) is plain ridiculous.

Beyond that, do we really want to elect someone who makes Terminator references during televised political debates?

Perhaps I'm the only Californian thinking, "hell no."



I think it can very easily be argued that Davis was indeed far more corrupt than many other politicians.

Here are just a few examples which just scratch the surface:

Governor Davis, Issa maintains, “puts all his energy into politics, not governing.” Davis counts campaign contributions, then, makes critical appointments to supporters and no one else. Issa declares that competence is not a word in Governor Davis’ lexicon, only dollars are. For example, the appointment of a totally unqualified Mrs. Steve Peace to a state board job that pays $111,000 is followed by Davis’ appointment of term-limited-out San Diego state senator, Steve Peace, as Finance Director for, a state taxpayer paid salary of—over $100,000.

Yes, the Peace family of State Finance Director Steve Peace, and state board member Mrs. Steve Peace, are being paid almost a quarter-of-a-million dollars-a-year by Californians. Question: Just what did former state senator and state Assemblyman Steve Peace deliver to Governor Davis that warrants a quarter-million-dollar-a-year pay-off? How many other unqualified appointments—pay-offs-- has Davis made in his five years, a half-decade in which he has made three thousand appointments?

After the obvious corruption of many of Davis’ appointments to state jobs with big paychecks, we look at the 44,000 jobs the Davis administration has created and filled with supporters and union members from unions from which Davis draws his staunchest support.

Union/Davis corruption has managed to steal millions of dollars of taxpayer money in the past five years. Two examples come to mind: (1) a state board controlled by Davis appointees voted to outlaw plumbing in California using non-metal substitute materials and made legal only the use of copper plumbing. This sweet deal was eventually overturned, but, would have given plumber’s union members millions of more work hours at union wages escalating new California construction costs and residence costs to levels never experienced, even in California.

The second example is that of the Correctional Officers union—Prison guards. While the state is unofficially bankrupt with a $38-40-billion deficit, the prison guards are getting astronomical raises. In fact, no ones knows exactly how much the raises will amount to this year, next year or even the year after that.

Both the plumbers and prison guard unions gave Gray Davis over a million dollars in contributions for his two races for governor. Connect the dots. Why would a state Davis-appointed board vote to make California the only state in the country that legally mandate copper plumbing in new houses? Why don’t we know how much prison guards will earn in the future?

Corruption is Gray Davis and Gray Davis is corruption.

A $25,000 campaign contribution from a hi-tech company resulted in a multi-million no-bid contract. When the legislature smelled something wrong and announced investigative hearings on the deal, Davis allies in the state Assembly fired the committee chairman and called back the hearings. What we have is a cover-up.

Cover-up is Gray Davis and Gray Davis is cover-up.

Heck, You've got Prison guards making more than teachers!!!

Not only that, his recent pandering has been almost embarassing, not to mention harmful to your state. He's at the point where he'll do anything for a vote, including harm your state even further.

I guess my point to you is that I think the case is very strong that he is more corrupt than average and now you guys have a chance to send politicians a VERY clear message about "the people" only taking so much malfeasance and corruption, yet you would rather keep him in office.

People always say how politicians are corrupt and all that, and many are, but yet you have a chance to send a message and you don't want to.

Anyways, all of this doesn't affect me, I wouldn't be voting for Arnold, so the guy I would support wouldn't win either.


Secondly, perhaps you folks should make an effort to get rid of the recall process since you don't seem to like it.
What happened here was a completely lawful action here, one the voters approved in the early 1900's.

Originally posted by Stage Monster
Signed it.

Here's a thought for you guys: Arnold has said he knows what is wrong with "Cah-lee-fohrn-yah" and that he knows how to fix it.

Have you heard him say anything to back that statement up? I haven't. I haven't heard him say a single goddamn thing about how he would fix things.


For one, I've heard him say that he will cut the Workmans comp and make it more like Arizona's.

He supports a constitutional limit on annual spending increases and an unambiguous constitutional requirement that the state pass a balanced budget.

Bah, just go here:
http://www.joinarnold.com/en/agenda/arnoldsviews.php#B1


Don't get me wrong. Im not an Arnold supporter, I think he gives Republican a bad name and don't think he can fix your problems.

If you guys want to fix your state vote for McClintock.

And Al, why are you making fun of someone's accent?

Here's my question..

if McClintock is seriosuly a good candidate...


(and i am not saying he is not.....i think he is a upstanding dude who can do a good job)

but he's really against illigal immagrants and Drivers Licences for them.

Now tell me...we have SUCH a budget crisis......what happens if we take out the thousands and thousands of cheap laborors who pick our fruits....clean our bathrooms,...and serve us burrito suprimes?....



What is THAT gonna do to our economy?...i don't see how that will help it at ALL


and don't tell me, if they don't do the jobs, others will...BULL ****...like any person who needs a job and is at all edjucated will want to do any of those jobs...

Originally posted by Scott
......what happens if we take out the thousands and thousands of cheap laborors who pick our fruits....clean our bathrooms,...and serve us burrito suprimes?....

Spoiled brats will actually have to see what work really is?

Originally posted by Scott
Now tell me...we have SUCH a budget crisis......what happens if we take out the thousands and thousands of cheap laborors who pick our fruits....clean our bathrooms,...and serve us burrito suprimes?....
What is THAT gonna do to our economy?...i don't see how that will help it at ALLWell, for one thing they'll stop draining the welfare and medicaid systems. Seems like a good start to me.

Here's my question..

if McClintock is seriosuly a good candidate...


(and i am not saying he is not.....i think he is a upstanding dude who can do a good job)

but he's really against illigal immagrants and Drivers Licences for them.

Now tell me...we have SUCH a budget crisis......what happens if we take out the thousands and thousands of cheap laborors who pick our fruits....clean our bathrooms,...and serve us burrito suprimes?....



What is THAT gonna do to our economy?...i don't see how that will help it at ALL


and don't tell me, if they don't do the jobs, others will...BULL ****...like any person who needs a job and is at all edjucated will want to do any of those jobs....

Scott, when I was a kid guess what I did? I picked strawberries and other fruits.
I think between the kids and the able bodied bums you could find a large enough workforce to cover it.
Futhermore, if there wasn't and a farmer had to hire citizens, I would have absolutely NO PROBLEM whatsoever paying more for my head of lettuce.

Secondly, do you know what a drain the illegals are on your system? They are not putting what they earn back into the economy, they take it to Mexico. They use the Emergency rooms as their family doctor, with no insurance and guess who foots the bill?
Oh, and don't ever complain that you had to wait for hours in an ER, you have no right to since you seem to support them being here.
Not to mention that 25-30% of the prisoners in Federal Prison are illegal aliens. Sure some come to work, but a lot also come here to work the system.
They are much more of a drain on the system than are good for it.

Ok...so some of you are willing to get your hands dirty...


Most of the people are not..and i can bet you money that standard is not gonna change

Originally posted by Scott
Ok...so some of you are willing to get your hands dirty...


Most of the people are not..and i can bet you money that standard is not gonna change

Not as long as mommy and daddy have a checking account and THEIR job doesn't get taken.

Originally posted by Stage Monster


Have you heard him say anything to back that statement up? I haven't. I haven't heard him say a single goddamn thing about how he would fix things.

Yes, he's detailed what he plans to do a number of times. Just don't plan on reading about it in the LA Times.....

Originally posted by igofast

No, you obviously aren't understanding, you have it backwards. Say arnold wins the recall with 30% of the vote, but 45% of Californians want to keep Davis, than the minority wins. You say 63% want to recall davis, that means he has 37% of the population behind him. The replacement candidate will most likely get less than 37%. That is exactly what I am saying is wrong - the minority shouldn't win.


Firstly, you still say that if 45% want to keep Davis, they should have their way, regardless of the 55% that vote to remove him. That sounds like a minority to me. Secondly, most elections end up the same way....and still, the person with the most votes wins. It's the law.


Two things could be done to improve the recall:

1. Hold the recall vote first, then if it passes, other people can announce their candidacy.

And leave the malefactor in office for months and months while they gear up for the election? Thanks, no. It sounds like a bad idea. As an analogy, suppose you were fired, but your employers kept you on until they could hire your replacement. Make any sense?


2. Add Davis' name to the ballot so a new governor is not elected with a minority percentage of votes.

Why? A vote to recall him, and another with his name as a candidate? This makes sense? To offer up the same analogy, suppose you were fired, (say for gross incompetence), (but kept on until a replacement was found), and allowed to apply for the position you were fired from.

Asta La Vista Babie - Arnold is the new Governor.

Stupid California and their stupid recall. I hated Arnold b/c he can't act and I hate the way he talks, but now I'm disgusted with him and that state. Thanks California for proving what morons ya'll are

Originally posted by lovelymerle1
Stupid California and their stupid recall. I hated Arnold b/c he can't act and I hate the way he talks, but now I'm disgusted with him and that state. Thanks California for proving what morons ya'll are
You really don't understand what happened and why, do you?

STUPID!!- Gary Coleman? Larry Flint? Arnold? As much as they showed the thing on tv what else is there to know? It was overrated and made people who don't live in California thankful they don't :)

Originally posted by lovelymerle1
STUPID!!- Gary Coleman? Larry Flint? Arnold? As much as they showed the thing on tv what else is there to know? It was overrated and made people who don't live in California thankful they don't :)

Arnold is smart, educated, and not a hack for either party.....this is a first, (at least in my memory), of someone winning an office as a major party candidate without having first been groomed/approved by that party. His election is a threat to entrenched Democrats, and Republicans, (though mostly to democrats).

I agree with Arnold maybe 25% of the time, and would have voted McClintock had he not been proven to be a two faced liar.


To be honest though, Arnold's administration is doomed to fail. Democrats have everything to lose by working with Arnold, and everything to win by 'helping' him fail. Too many life long 'crat politicians feel threatened by him....and the DNC will pull out all the stops to unseat him next election, but they'll need some spectacular failures to rant about, which is where the 'crat dominated legislature comes in. They'll stab him in the back at the very first opportunity.

Originally posted by JAT

Yes, think of what a terrible message we'll be sending to our leaders: If you do a poor job you'll be fired.

:rolleyes:

I think that this is EXACTLY the message that Californians have sent to politicians across the country. Its the right message. It says that if you blatantly lie about the state of things during the election and afterwards say "My mistake, we are actually billions of dollars in deficit instead of the surplus I boasted of" that the people will use their power to remove you from office.

Originally posted by Scott
Here's my question..

if McClintock is seriosuly a good candidate...


(and i am not saying he is not.....i think he is a upstanding dude who can do a good job)

but he's really against illigal immagrants and Drivers Licences for them.

Now tell me...we have SUCH a budget crisis......what happens if we take out the thousands and thousands of cheap laborors who pick our fruits....clean our bathrooms,...and serve us burrito suprimes?....



What is THAT gonna do to our economy?...i don't see how that will help it at ALL


and don't tell me, if they don't do the jobs, others will...BULL ****...like any person who needs a job and is at all edjucated will want to do any of those jobs...

Oh, my. I agree that there is a lot of work to be done that many feel is beneath them. But there are also plenty of people that are looking for work, but can't even get a grubby job because all the jobs are taken. I will say this though, most of the people working the taco hell and cleaning jobs are LEGAL immigrants with green cards.

I'm not opposed to immigration, I am just a supporter of upholding current laws. ILLEGAL imigration is ILLEGAL! We should stop rewarding people for breaking the law.


Originally posted by DngrMse


Arnold is smart, educated, and not a hack for either party.....this is a first, (at least in my memory), of someone winning an office as a major party candidate without having first been groomed/approved by that party. His election is a threat to entrenched Democrats, and Republicans, (though mostly to democrats).

I agree with Arnold maybe 25% of the time, and would have voted McClintock had he not been proven to be a two faced liar.


To be honest though, Arnold's administration is doomed to fail. Democrats have everything to lose by working with Arnold, and everything to win by 'helping' him fail. Too many life long 'crat politicians feel threatened by him....and the DNC will pull out all the stops to unseat him next election, but they'll need some spectacular failures to rant about, which is where the 'crat dominated legislature comes in. They'll stab him in the back at the very first opportunity.

When Arnold arrived in this country, he taught himself English (more than many illegals do), educated himself and worked hard. Sure he made some mistakes (what imensly popular body builder/actor wouldn't), but he is far from stupid.

When it comes down to it, most of us do not live our lives to go into politics so there are always going to be some inconsistancies. I think it is important to note that one of the first things that Arnold is doing is having an independant audit of the state budget to try and cut so much of the fat away.

And then there is the democrat opposition. First, the Dems are going to have to realize that the people of California are more in touch with politics since it is directly affecting their pocketbooks. The Dems would be wise to do what they can to help Arnold balance the budget because the fight has become publicized enough that the Dems may just find themselves out of work.

Furthermore, in order for the Dems to have another recall, I believe they would need signatures from 12% of the number of people who voted in the last election. It worked for Gray Davis oposers because there was only a 40% voter turn out last time. This time it was to the tune of 70%. Getting that many signatures would be nearly impossible, if not completly so.


On another note, I think that deporting Ilegal immigrants would probably save a lot of money and reduce the strain on the healthcare system. While my opinion is mainly based on theoretical data, I am sure that there are numbers out there to support it.

Anyone?