I watched this excellent documentary on the KKK over the weekend and with
all the interest in terrorism I thought that some might be interested in the
terrorism of the KKK. The program presents much factual evidence that this
terrorism was often sanctioned by law enforcement and local government. It
chronicles the history of the KKK from its inception to the modern day.
Anyone that truly is concerned with terrorism and considers themselves a
defender of the "American Way" should enjoy educating themselves on the
terrorism that has been inflicted by the KKK over the years. This is a must
see, if you can't watch it, program your VCR or have someone tape it for
you.

Time Machine
Ku Klux Klan: A Secret History
Saturday , January 12 1:00 PM-3:00 PM

Kneeling before a flaming cross, Klansmen and women take part in their
sacred bonding, showing how secrecy and ritual aid the hooded order in a
campaign for white supremacy. From its birth in 1866's Reconstruction South
to a 1996 rally, this chronicle of hate talks to Julian Bond, Morris Dees
Jr., the Grand Dragon, and Imperial Wizard. TV PG-L

Well said.:)

Started as a fraternal society, with NO particular agenda, evolving with changing leaders to a WASP hate group, with blacks being a target of choice, although catholics & jews also became targets.

The symbolism - costumes&hoods, names of officers, rituals, hate for 'others' - looks like the first modern dictatorship-party. Both Nazis and Socialists refined and perfected many of the Clan techniques.

Again, absolute power corrupted absolutely, and lots of disgruntled followers are always available from some segment of the population.

Many people are not aware, that the KKK, is still very active. A few miles from where I live their is a membership of them. They had the nerve to come in my dad's place of business passing out flyers when I TOLD them to leave.

KKK, is not something , I care to watch anything on, cause I think it is a disgrace to the white population.

It is important to learn from our mistakes, because only by studying what is wrong with society can we attempt to fix it.

Originally posted by Contraband
It is important to learn from our mistakes, because only by studying what is wrong with society can we attempt to fix it.

I can see your point here.. :)

Originally posted by hammegk
Well said.:)

Started as a fraternal society, with NO particular agenda, evolving with changing leaders to a WASP hate group, with blacks being a target of choice, although catholics & jews also became targets.

The symbolism - costumes&hoods, names of officers, rituals, hate for 'others' - looks like the first modern dictatorship-party. Both Nazis and Socialists refined and perfected many of the Clan techniques.

Again, absolute power corrupted absolutely, and lots of disgruntled followers are always available from some segment of the population.


No Agenda? Nathan Bedford Forrest was one of the founding members. It was a good ole boys club whose principle activities were recreation that included spooking (and assaulting/murdering) "coons." As far as the KKK being socialist ,or a pattern for socialists, thats a bunch of crap if i ever heard it. The issues they take a stand on tend to be in line with the prevailing religious right ideology. They are anti abortion, against gun control, against non protestants, pro school prayer, etc I dont think they have a guiding economic policy. Ive never heard of the IWW dressing up in white sheets and burning crosses or hanging black people, so Im inclined to believe socialism has vitually nothing to do with the KKK. Need I point out again that David Duke ran (and was elected to state legislature) on a REPUBLICAN ticket. Tom Metzger also ran on REPUBLICAN tickets.

Likewisde the KKK is decidedly religious while the Nazis were sytrongly opposed to religion. You dont have to be an Aryan to join the KKK just a white protestant. Nazi racism was much more rigid. Also the Klan was originally focused on being anti-black and was more or less tolerant of judaism (though this has changed) where as Nazis were primarily anti-semetic. Hitler didnt pattern Nazism on the KKK, the KKK was a uniquely American thing (though it has since blended into the generic culture of totalitarian global white supremacy).

As far as the rituals, costumes and ranks, that shit isnt a unique facet of the KKK. It can all be found in the various Christian religions of the world. Bishops, Cardinals, Priests, Deacons, etc etc The rituals arent trmendously different than a Catholic mass or the rituals of any religious sect, neither is the authoritarian aspect. Hell even those costumes they wear arent original, they are derived from the costumes used in festivals by the Catholic Church to this day (only the church uses red outfits for Corpus Christi I believe).

Why are you trying to sugar coat the undenied history of the Klan? The Klan has PROUDLY murdered numerous black persons. They are proud of their racism. Trying to qualify "socialism" as being influenced by KKK ideology is equally ridiculous.

The KKK are violent people who hate non white persons and devotees of other religions, nuff said.

Nice rant!

I don't believe I said anything to the contrary.
Read my words again.

Nuff said....:D

My knowledge of the organization is that the KKK was starded by Nathan Bradford Forest, a former Confederate General. This was originally founded as a veteren's organization. Though Forest was a racist (he was a former slave trader and during the war he murdered black union soldiers who were unfortunate enough to fall into his hands) he turned against the klan after its agand became too radical.

I have heard that it is anti Jewish and anti Catholic, though David Duke said that there were many Catholics in the Lousiana Klan.

Originally posted by hammegk
Nice rant!

I don't believe I said anything to the contrary.
Read my words again.

Nuff said....:D

You said:


Originally posted by hammegk

The symbolism - costumes&hoods, names of officers, rituals, hate for 'others' - looks like the first modern dictatorship-party. Both Nazis and Socialists refined and perfected many of the Clan techniques.

Socialism has nothing to do with the KKK.

'techniques'

How about mass propaganda based on "us" vs. "others".

Socaialism as imposed by commies Party vs. capitalists.
;)

Time Machine
Ku Klux Klan: A Secret History
Saturday , January 12 1:00 PM-3:00 PM

Did anyone catch this? Tape it? If so what did you think?
History Channel tends to show things repeatedly so it might be on again in Feb.

Hammegk is right... Propaganda and terror tactics are easily adaptable to ANY extreme idiology.

And to the best of my knowledge Criminal, they are Anti-Catholic, and DEFINATELY anti-Jewish. Maybe some groups have had to soften up on the anti-catholic thing to keep their roster active though. Running out of uneducated snaggle toothed protestant morons in the rural South I guess... LOL!

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Hammegk is right... Propaganda and terror tactics are easily adaptable to ANY extreme idiology.

And to the best of my knowledge Criminal, they are Anti-Catholic, and DEFINATELY anti-Jewish. Maybe some groups have had to soften up on the anti-catholic thing to keep their roster active though. Running out of uneducated snaggle toothed protestant morons in the rural South I guess... LOL!

Probably why they've pretty much moved to the north and midwest; plenty of snaggle-toothed morons up there I guess.

Originally posted by hammegk
'techniques'

How about mass propaganda based on "us" vs. "others".


Thats not unique to the KKK thats existed since the beginning of civilization. Hell the neaderthal tribes prolly had notions of "the other." I believe the US Government (like most all warlike nations) has made use of similar techniques dating back to the Revolution and in every major war since. So pinning the conceptualization of propaganda on the KKK or Socialists is simply untrue. Propaganda exisdted far before either of those groups.

Originally posted by CodyChaos
... Propaganda exisdted far before either of those groups.

Gosh, you are right. It WAS a congregation of the Roman curia with jurisdiction over missionary territories.

I had thought its *modern, effective* use required some form of mass media and communication, a literate population, some stuff like that. Thanks.;)

Did you watch the KKK documentary?

Originally posted by hammegk


I had thought its *modern, effective* use required some form of mass media and communication, a literate population, some stuff like that. Thanks.;)

Did you watch the KKK documentary?

To my knowledge the KKK has never been in a position to use MASS MEDIA. I have never seen a KKK television program (though i know of some community cable access shows run by white supremacists but these were strictly community based, hardly MASS media). Similarly I have never heard a KKK radio program (again there are a few white supremacist short wave programs but thats nothing compared to the mass media utilized by the major political parties and religions, most people cant even access shortwave).

Maybe the Klan used to take out ads in national newspapers back in the day, i dont know. Even if they did thats hardly an innovative technique nor does that have anything to do with socialism. I concede the Klan has used the internet, but they werent the first nor were they the inspiration for socialist propaganda techniques.

You dont ****ing need a literate population to use mass media either. I offer Brazil, the nation with the third largest amount of TV sets in the world, as evidence. TV Globo (from Brazil) is one of the largest networks on earth ( i want to say the 4th but i could be wrong) yet the Brazilian population suffers from poor literacy. These illiterate masses easily consume the Television and Film media produced on a national and global scale.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the subject before you go spouting about mass media applications and evolution.

No i didnt watch thisparticular documentary biut i seen plenty others and read plenty on the topic.

Ok, sure, whatever....;)
Try reading it all once more, thinking about the time frames involved, technology of the times in question, etc... you might get it ....

*Brazil tv* ROFL
and evolution .... hit the bong again
have a 'lude ... chill out

TTFN

Originally posted by Casper
Probably why they've pretty much moved to the north and midwest; plenty of snaggle-toothed morons up there I guess.


They did. Actually, one of the strongest and most active bodies of the Klan was in Indiana.

In the late 1910s and through 1920s, the Klan was VERY powerful in Indiana. It was led by a guy named D.C. Stephenson. Many Klan members during this time were in the state legislature...

Stephenson was indicted for murder in the late 1920s, and he talked to the authorities about the level of corruption in the state. Many state reps, the governor and the mayor of Indianapolis were implicated.

Originally posted by hammegk
Ok, sure, whatever....;)
Try reading it all once more, thinking about the time frames involved, technology of the times in question, etc... you might get it ....

*Brazil tv* ROFL
and evolution .... hit the bong again
have a 'lude ... chill out

TTFN



Yeah well dont believe me about Brazilian television, its absolutely true. Just shows how ignorant you are on the topic. What the **** is ROFL TTFN? How bout you go TTFN yourself.

I've noticed something about hammegk's posts...if they were written in a way that most people could get through them, he'd get a lot more flames, and responses.
(I'm not talking about this thread in particular, though I have to admit that I've been, erm, avoiding his posts for the most part - anything over a line and it gives me a headache - something about them reminds me of reading about structuralist theory, as translated from the French...something gets lost in translation.)

Originally posted by Aphasia
I've noticed something about hammegk's posts...if they were written in a way that most people could get through them, he'd get a lot more flames, and responses.
(I'm not talking about this thread in particular, though I have to admit that I've been, erm, avoiding his posts for the most part - anything over a line and it gives me a headache - something about them reminds me of reading about structuralist theory, as translated from the French...something gets lost in translation.)

Im sure Id comment more about things he says but generally I just skip it all... :)

Originally posted by DaOgre

Im sure Id comment more about things he says but generally I just skip it all... :)

But don't you run out of 'low mangoes'?
There, that's I suppose too cryptic, huh?

Oh, for Cody, Rolling On Floor Laughing
Ta Ta For Now

And, yes you are absolutely correct about the propagandization of Brazilian TV. I just miss any connection to what I thought we were discussing.:p

Ya'all have a nice day, hear? This is a BBS for god's sake (or satan's)!

Oh, for what it's worth, NBF wouldn't have supported any action against Jews since 2 of his officers were Jewish.

Interesting, huh?

My one and only comment on the KKK.

They are just another proof that any section of human society, whatever divisions you wish to employ (race, creed, geography, colour of hair, katsup vs mustard, etc)...any section of humanity has the capacity to develop an exclusionist weirdo bunch that want to make everyone else hurt or go away.

Oh yeah, and I think they're jerks.

:cool:

Originally posted by Aphasia
I've noticed something about hammegk's posts...if they were written in a way that most people could get through them, he'd get a lot more flames, and responses.
(I'm not talking about this thread in particular, though I have to admit that I've been, erm, avoiding his posts for the most part - anything over a line and it gives me a headache - something about them reminds me of reading about structuralist theory, as translated from the French...something gets lost in translation.)
At the risk of sounding ignorant, what is Structuralist Theory?

Structuralism is new to me...

We could try

Deconstructionism

A term tied very closely to postmodernism, deconstructionism is a challenge to the attempt to establish any ultimate or secure meaning in a text. Basing itself in language analysis, it seeks to "deconstruct" the ideological biases (gender, racial, economic, political, cultural) and traditional assumptions that infect all histories, as well as philosophical and religious "truths."
Deconstructionism is based on the premise that much of human history, in trying to understand, and then define, reality has led to various forms of domination - of nature, of people of color, of the poor, of homosexuals, etc. Like postmodernism,
deconstructionism finds concrete experience more valid than abstract ideas and, therefore, refutes any attempts to produce a history, or a truth. In other words, the multiplicities and contingencies of human experience necessarily bring knowledge down to the local and specific level, and challenge the tendency to centralize power through the claims of an ultimate truth which must be accepted or obeyed by all.

Originally posted by hammegk
Structuralism is new to me...

We could try

Deconstructionism

A term tied very closely to postmodernism, deconstructionism is a challenge to the attempt to establish any ultimate or secure meaning in a text. Basing itself in language analysis, it seeks to "deconstruct" the ideological biases (gender, racial, economic, political, cultural) and traditional assumptions that infect all histories, as well as philosophical and religious "truths."
Deconstructionism is based on the premise that much of human history, in trying to understand, and then define, reality has led to various forms of domination - of nature, of people of color, of the poor, of homosexuals, etc. Like postmodernism,
deconstructionism finds concrete experience more valid than abstract ideas and, therefore, refutes any attempts to produce a history, or a truth. In other words, the multiplicities and contingencies of human experience necessarily bring knowledge down to the local and specific level, and challenge the tendency to centralize power through the claims of an ultimate truth which must be accepted or obeyed by all.
So to make it simple, a deconstructionist is one who takes an idea and creates a system of economy or government based on it, kind of like the Soviet Communists or Nazis?

I would think that the opposite of Deconstructionism would be Objectivism.

Hammegk, have you read Ayn Rand?

Originally posted by Criminal

So to make it simple, a deconstructionist is one who takes an idea and creates a system of economy or government based on it, kind of like the Soviet Communists or Nazis?

No, not in my opinion. Deconstructionism searches for the {underlying** meanings of words, text, and context.

I would think that the opposite of Deconstructionism would be Objectivism.

Hammegk, have you read Ayn Rand?
I'd say deconstructionism & objectivism are more similar than un-like in that local and specific *acts* ARE 'meaning'.

Originally posted by hammegk

No, not in my opinion. Deconstructionism searches for the {underlying** meanings of words, text, and context.
[B]
I'd say deconstructionism & objectivism are more similar than un-like in that local and specific *acts* ARE 'meaning'.
OK..I get it now.

So once again, did you read Ayn Rand? I think you may find her writings interesting.

struc·tur·al·ism Pronunciation Key (strkchr--lzm)
n.
A method of analyzing phenomena, as in anthropology, linguistics, psychology, or literature, chiefly characterized by contrasting the elemental structures of the phenomena in a system of binary opposition.
A school that advocates and employs such a method.

dictionary.com

More or less, that's it - defining the world by binary opposites. If you're at all interested, check out the works of Roland Barthes, Derrida, Lacan, and a bit of Foucault (though he's more post-modern than structuralist). Be warned though - there's a reason I likened Hammegk to these guys. Most of them wrote in French, and translating it into the English...well, let's just say it's not so easy to follow.

i think im gonna start putting up KKK members on crosses on their own front lawns and torching the hell out of them. pleasantly ironic, isnt it?