Okay people, I guess it's my turn to vent about my relationship & try to get some answers, ideas & moral support. Some of you may have picked up a few tidbits here & there from my posts all over the board, but I'l start from the beginning...

My wife & I have been together almost 13 years & married 11 of those years. Needless to say, we got together pretty young... I sure thought at the time it was true love however. TO cut through the crap though, it's been a one sided marriage the whole time...

My family didn't like her & bad-mouthed her, I turned my back on them and stood by her. She played her family off against me any time she didn't like something I said or did. This stopped a few years back (largely) but still irks me badly...

When we were in California, due to the fact that I didn't finish college and have any real job skills, I worked two full time crappy jobs to try and support us. She worked 1 job at not even 15 hours a week, and I still had to either do the housework myself or beg/plead, yell/scream to get her to do it. This problem with not helping STILL continues to this day.

Money... Where to even start here??? As long as I'm around she wants to spend it far faster than we can bring it in. Absolutely ZERO effort at cash management. We were seperated for about a year in late 92/early 93, and she did great on her own. Once I get back into the picture though, she abdicates all personal responsibility it seems. That'd be OK if she controlled her spending & worked with me on our budget at least.

The seperation. Might as well hit that here... In early 92 her parents (her dad really) got transferred to Georgia by his job. We get this big song & dance abut how great GA is, how everything is so much cheaper than Calif, and there are lots of jobs, etc... All more or less true at the time BTW. Anyway, we move out here with what few meager possessions we've got at that point. We stayed with her parents to start out with since we had no cash or anything at the time. This is where the playing me off against her parents was at it's worst. I couldn't say a thing to her w/o her running to daddy telling him how mean I was to her. Then I gotta get bitched out by him :rolleyes: After about 4 months of that, I said screw it, packed my bag and hopped a Greyhound bus back to California. Things didn't start out too bad there... I got ahold of a girl that I new in Jr High & High School that I used to have a HUGE crush on. We were never ore than friends & academic rivals though. This is the dreaded Nina some of you have seen me trash here before. That relationship was pure heaven starting out, and at the end... Well Hell doesn't scare me any more cause it CAN'T be any worse than she was to me at the end. That's a whole different soap opera that's totally in the past now however. Anyway, a few months after Nina & I break up and I'm done wallowing in a broken heart, I pick my butt up and start to get my life back together. I decide one of the first things I finally want to do is finalize my divorce. That gets started, but sentimentality gets in the way & I end up giving the wife yet another chance. She SEEMED to really get her life together while I was gone. Had a job & our car still, got into Tae Kwon Do at my earlier urging to improve her self confidence, it all looked good.

So we get back together and everythings good (not perfect) for about 3 months or so, then it all starts sliding right back into the toilet again. Needless to say it's been all the same stuff all over again... The only exception is the parents vs me crap got fairly toned down.

I'm sure everybody's getting fed up with reading by now, so I'll try even more to just speed this along. The bottom line is that she had NO goals, no drive, no ambition and won't do a damned thing to contribute to out relationship. It's a fight to get her to even throw garbabe in the garbage can & dirty clothes in the hamper for Gods sake!!! She oes work full time at least, but always manages to get fired within a year of whatever she's doing and then be outta work just long enough to throw our financial house of cards into total ruin. If I try to do something myself to improve myself or just for stress relief, she has to get into it and screw it up for me. The most glaring example was when we tried to take Wing Chun kung fu from a school in Atlanta. The guy teaching it is Francis Fong. The name won't mean anything to 95% of you, but he's one of the best martial arts instructors in the country. When he has training seminars, he gets people from all over the US & Europe coming to them. Anyway, when she goes by herself on Saturdays while I'm at work, she's the star beginner pupil. I get in there, she all of the sudden can't do a SINGLE move right, not even a basic open handed cross body parry (She learned this in 3 different schools before mind you...). She deliberately played some petty little passive-aggressive game to make me look bad in front of everyone. I mean after all, she trains GREAT when I'm not around... I MUST be the problem. Well, needless to say, it worked alright. No more wing chun:(

As said, that's just the best example... I could get to 3000 posts if I put them all down. It seems to filter into every aspect of our relationship any more. All I can see that this has gotten me any more is broke financially, stressed out & depressed all the time. Nothing seems to help either. I yell & scream and threaten divorce she straightens up for the moment, I back off cause she's trying and let her know I appreciate the effort, the crap starts all over again!!! I've tried long talks, I've tried bribing her with the promise of a (used) Jag like she's always wanted, or finally starting a family if she'd just get her shit together & work with me. Even those weren't enough. We went to our church for counselling before the seperation. The minister told her I was pretty much right in what I was asking for, but that I should try even more positive reinforcement myself. No prob for me... She just blew him off though. "Well, I didn't think I had a problem" Her exact words. Never mind what I'd said for years, what the minister had said, and what mutual friends had said as well...

Anyway, bottom line for me is that I'm at my absolute witt's end with the cosmic indifference toward me & the marriage, the never ending passive-aggressive shit, and the total financial irresponsibility as well. She's shown she can do it w/o me around, so it's all games as far as I'm concerned...

So what the hell do I do here people? I've wanted out for a while now, but I keep trying to be the good little merry christian and trying to work things out... I guess it'd be easier if it was something like she was whoring around on me, but this is like getting eaten alive by ants or something. Slower. more painful death if you know what I mean:( At what point do I get to stop trying to be a good husband to a wife that swears up & down she loves me but does everything to show me otherwise? When do I have a right to salvage what's left of my so-called life?

Her dad divorced her mom just about this time last year for much the same reasons as I'm thinking about leaving. This when he was 55 years old too! The thought of ending up in that exact same situation scared the hell outta me too. I don't want to finally be trying to rebuild my life at retirement age with no money to do it with...

On the flip side, anybody's got any ideas on salvaging this 3 ring cluster**** I'm certainly open to hearing them as well. I've already invested over 1/3 of my life in this...

Wow, that was a tough read.

I'm sorry for the hardships of your relationships. I know it is easy for *me* to say on this end, but life is long, very long... and it's even longer if you're miserable. You know? I don't like to be miserable myself, so I don't think I could of continued on your path longer than a couple of years.

I was in a relationship that consisted of alot of the material you wrote about. After I got over the "I have to make this work or I will look like a loser" syndrome it was easy to realize that a damn relationship should NOT take that much effort. Granted, I understand love is a verb, but it's a mutual effort of adjustments and give and takes.

My husband and I have had to make adjustments... the amazing thing though, when you love and care about someone, not only as a lover but a great friend, you don't mind them. They're not huge personality changes, just small ... will you please fold the whites kind of things. If something I do bugs him, he tells me, and I try to see where he is coming from, same goes for him.

I hope it works out Shadow... whichever route you decide to take. It seems like you know what you want to do, but you may be afraid of what it would "look like" - **** it, no one can live your life but you. A significant other is supposed to be a pleasure not a task. *shrug*

Good luck.

Cristina-

Shadow,
You probably already know this, but let me just say first thing, that you know if you need anything from me. You got it. I am pretty sure the rest of the gang will be right here with you, supporting and willing to listen. Afterall, what are post whore buddies for?

Anyways, I look at what you posted above, and it looks like one big pile of crap. You can see that relationships have there problems. I believe that you have to work at every relationship. But there comes a point in time where a human being reaches it’s physical limits. One person can only take some much crap, and being unhappy before he moves on. I know you don’t want to feel like the bad person about divorcing your wife. And that’s understandable. But your foundation of who you are, should be to provide what is best for YOU. Don’t think the problems are going to work out on their own. They won’t. Don’t think you can fix all the problems by yourself. You can’t. It takes an equal effort to work at a relationship for it to work.

Your wife probably knows that you are willing and wanting to make this work out. Well that my friend is a bad situation. She might be, notice I say might b/c I really don’t know, giving the relationship a hard time b/c she knows you are going to fix it. Well not even giving a hard time, just not trying. I don’t mean to speak ill about anyone’s wife, and you sound like you could kick my butt, but just make sure you see the whole picture before you decide anything.

Let me guess, you get sick of it.. leave.. and then she wants you back.. yeah, hate to tell you, but I have been there.. it’s like they want you to try.. and they won’t tell you that.. That’s crap, and that’s not a relationship.. it’s suppose to be an equal sharing of love, and if you don’t feel it with her, then get out.. don’t tell yourself that you would find someone better, trust me, you won’t find someone better while you are still with her.. I know it’s hard sometimes, b/c we all get kicked down.. but just try loving life.. I know I am one to talk, but if you don’t enjoy what you are doing and who you are.. change it, don’t get all upset about it..

Anyways, most of this probably don’t apply to you, I might just be preaching to myself..:D

When is enough finally enough???


Sounds to me like about a year ago. Seriously, man, Her dad left for a reason. Maybe you should give serious consideration to divorcing her before you loose what little sanity you have left.

I was told by my wife's grandfather to keep a close watch on my wife. He said that her great grandmother (his mother in law) started to go crazy in her early 30's, her grandmother did the same, her mother, while not crazy was a welcome mat for anyone who wanted to take advantage of her, and her older sister (wife's) was crazier than the rest put together. He said he put up with it because they already had grand kids when she went loony. But, when he died, they hadn't slept in the same bed for 40 years. (married almost 60)


That the kind of relationship you want to stay in? Looks to me like your heading down a similar path as far a happiness (or lack of) is concerned... I'd bail....

Hey man, if that's the truth, whole teuth and nothin but the truth and not you just venting then you HAVE to get out and do it soon. The sounds pretty much like my marriage.Two bouts of marriage counseling and a seperation. Trying to save our marriage for the simple fact that marriage is supposed to be forever was absolutely the wrong thing to do. We ended up accidently having a kid. Now I'm tied to that bitch for the rest of my life and my daughter has to grow up with divorced parents. Let me tell you that kicks my ass every day knowing that I could have prevented that. Yes its hard to leave when she hasn't really done anything wrong per se, but how much harder would it be to leave after you have a kid? Accidents happen. Now I love my daughter to death and wouldn't trade her for anything. I just think she deserved to have parents who love each other. You should really look at what can happen if you seperate and what can happen if you stay together. From the sound of your post you already know what you should do. I for one say don't let the "sanctity" of marriage get in your way.

Shadow, it sounds like you've done more than enough to try to save your relationship. However, if you feel like giving it one more try, maybe you could attempt to get her into a marriage counselor who wasn't affiliated with your church.

It sounds to me like she's severely depressed, and if that's the case, there's really nothing you can do. She probably also doesn't really believe you anymore when you threaten to leave because the one time you did, you ended up going back.

Thank heavens there aren't children involved here. I think you were really responsible for holding off on that. I'm really sorry that this is happening for you. Maybe it's time to get out while you still can, and while you're young enough to really get on with your life and start new.

Thanks for the support so far team:) Christina, you nailed exactly how I feel about relationships. Love is a verb, and little changes/accomodations shouldn't be that hard. They're all I've ever asked for too:( That's what really hurts to me... The thing about I have to make it work or I'll look like a loser kind of hit home too. It's funny how it was easier for me to see myself doing that when Nina & I had problems. Same thing all over again, just in a slightly different way though.

Wedge: You pretty well nailed quite a few things too. Thanks for the support, guy:) You too Brian, although I feel like I'm the one slowly going crazy, LMAO! If anybody here HASN'T figured it out BTW, humor is my defense mechanism. I've had the attitude for a while now that with situations like this it's either laugh at it or scream til you do lose your sanity.

J & Allegra, thanks for the support too. The fact that this thing has been the way it is from day one is EXACTLY the reason I never did have any kids with her. I come from a broken home myself, and I don't want that for my kids. The sad part is she's been whining about wanting kids for about 4 or 5 years now too, and I keep telling her to start helping out & being responsible and we could do it. No such luck... All the more sad cause I'm 33 now and I'm at the point where I've been thinking about them alot myself. I want to have them while I'm young enough to really be able to play with them & enjoy them:(

Where it's all heading at this point, I'm still not sure... It's not looking good at this point however:(

Originally posted by Shadowhawk

J & Allegra, thanks for the support too. The fact that this thing has been the way it is from day one is EXACTLY the reason I never did have any kids with her. I come from a broken home myself, and I don't want that for my kids. The sad part is she's been whining about wanting kids for about 4 or 5 years now too, and I keep telling her to start helping out & being responsible and we could do it. No such luck... All the more sad cause I'm 33 now and I'm at the point where I've been thinking about them alot myself. I want to have them while I'm young enough to really be able to play with them & enjoy them:(



Shadow, you still can have kids. You are no where near approaching "old man" status, and people have kids in their 30s all the time now. Maybe you should start looking for women who deserves to be the mother of your children. You seem like a great guy, I'm sure there is someone out there with the capacity to both love AND honor you.

Hang in there.

Thanks again A. As said, I've got alot to think about now... Nice to know I've got a few friends here I can count on for a little advice & support though:)

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Thanks again A. As said, I've got alot to think about now... Nice to know I've got a few friends here I can count on for a little advice & support though:) Let us know how it turns out. Just remember, we're here and we want you to be happy. Besides, if you get a life, it'll be easier for me to catch up to your post-count!!j/k

Hey Shadow,

Had my first two kids when I was 19 and 21. While I have enjoyed them, I really didn't KNOW what it meant to be a father. I am 33 now. Two years ago we had our 3rd, which was a major surprise. However, the last two years have been the best of my life when it comes to my kids. You are not too old. I'd say your just about at the right age. Once you find the RIGHT wmoan for you.

shadow,

first no problem for helping you out.. God knows I owe all of you.. especially you.. anyways, I just wanted you to remember to as much as you want to make her happy, you need to look out what is best for you.. ain't noone going to take care of you but yourself..

as long as she knows you are going to work it out, she won't care.. but when you leave she wants you back, then you start trying she stops caring.. yeah it's a cycle.. and I have been there.. and trust me the cycle shorter and shorter between mood changes and then it begins to mean nothing.. anywho, best of luck and if you want a bro to hang out with.. let me know

Originally posted by Wedge4876
shadow,

first no problem for helping you out.. God knows I owe all of you.. especially you..

Just name your first born 'Shadowhawk' and he'll be happy...

Originally posted by Brian


Just name your first born 'Shadowhawk' and he'll be happy...

name him 'physcotech'

:)

Originally posted by Wedge4876


name him 'physcotech'

:)

Or 'My dad kissed Manu's ass'?

postwhore jr.

Um Mr.Wedge..You especially owe Shadow? Who saved you from the pits of SN? Who advised you, and conversed with you during your ordeals..HMM, If not for me there would be No Shadow for you..MWHAHAHHWHWWHAHA!

haha.. now you did it, you let everyone on here know how I came to this board.. now they are going to kick your ass for sure..

well if you want to get really technical princess.. if it weren't for my physcotic xgf I would of never met you.. and if my mom wouldn't have given me there would of been no stangnet.. but anyways, thanks for making me post on the days I didn't feel like it.. :)

Originally posted by Princess
Um Mr.Wedge..You especially owe Shadow? Who saved you from the pits of SN? Who advised you, and conversed with you during your ordeals..HMM, If not for me there would be No Shadow for you..MWHAHAHHWHWWHAHA!


AND THE TRUTH COMES OUT!!! You'd better start doing some SERIOUS sucking up!!! I'm talking Hoover Windtunnel type! The Princess just might come after you!!!

Originally posted by Brian



AND THE TRUTH COMES OUT!!! You'd better start doing some SERIOUS sucking up!!! I'm talking Hoover Windtunnel type! The Princess just might come after you!!!

come on dude.. for your 500th post you couldn't do better than that?? lol..

I think if I was going to have to do anytype of sucking to princess I would have to wait in the back of the line.. :)

Hope she dont see that reply when I 'm talking to her, my hearing is something I treasure...:D

Originally posted by Brian
Hope she dont see that reply when I 'm talking to her, my hearing is something I treasure...:D

so are you in the line too??

LOL

/me aggs it on

No, I'm not in line with her... at least yet... :p

Hey you nozzles!!!! This thread is supposed to be about ME!!!!

/my best Heather imitation:D

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Hey you nozzles!!!! This thread is supposed to be about ME!!!!

/my best Heather imitation:D

/done in best cajun accent

(*like the weird cajun from the waterboy*)