My hubby found this link at WND. History shall repeat itself with the defeat of the "revised" Ottoman Empire.


http://earlyamerica.com/review/2002_winter_spring/terrorism.htm

No news to us ex-jarheads here Becky... That's one of the many furballs drummed into you at basic training. At least it used to be back in '87... Corp history was taught right along with marching & shooting:D

Originally posted by Momof6
My hubby found this link at WND. History shall repeat itself with the defeat of the "revised" Ottoman Empire.


http://earlyamerica.com/review/2002_winter_spring/terrorism.htm
That was really interesting. I have heard that song from the halls of Montazuma to the Shores of Tripoli. Tripoli was a reference to the Naval campaign against the Barbary states. It was the first time in US history that a foreigh campaign was taken against an enemy state (unless one considers the actions of John Paul Jones off the shores of Britian during the revolution).

We just found it interesting that we are fighting the same people all over again. They tried to appease them with money....like we have been doing, but it didn't work. So a riled up Navy dude, with a couple a jarheads, went in and kicked some Arab butt........sorta like now!!! I always loved jarheads........till I met the flyboys and thier toys. Well, if you can call an F-14 a toy. :D

Well, Marine Corp Aviator was gonna be my thing, but between the 20/30 eyesite & the bad knees, it didn't happen:(

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Well, Marine Corp Aviator was gonna be my thing, but between the 20/30 eyesite & the bad knees, it didn't happen:(


You'd been bopping around in a cute lil' F/A- 18 Hornet.....they are a mighty hot aircraft. Went out with a fella who flew one of those.(wasn't supposed to, being an enlisted gal and all....but who listens to rules!)....fighter pilots are very crazy fellas, so you would have fit right in!!

LOL! I probably would have:) As it is, I just settle for being a desktop Fighter Pilot:D

Originally posted by Momof6
We just found it interesting that we are fighting the same people all over again. They tried to appease them with money....like we have been doing, but it didn't work. So a riled up Navy dude, with a couple a jarheads, went in and kicked some Arab butt........sorta like now!!! I always loved jarheads........till I met the flyboys and thier toys. Well, if you can call an F-14 a toy. :D


It's bout time we eradicate them darn sand ******s huh?

Originally posted by Corporate Avenger



It's bout time we eradicate them darn sand ******s huh?

Still a little peeved over Mom's joke in the gun control thread are we? :D:D:D

Originally posted by Criminal

That was really interesting. I have heard that song from the halls of Montazuma to the Shores of Tripoli. Tripoli was a reference to the Naval campaign against the Barbary states. It was the first time in US history that a foreigh campaign was taken against an enemy state (unless one considers the actions of John Paul Jones off the shores of Britian during the revolution).
One more thing: The Halls of Montezuma, in case someone cares, was a reference to the Mexican War. This was the campaign in which the US Armed forces landed at Veracruiz and fought their way to Mexico City. The year was 1848. It was, incidently, the exact same rout taken by Cortez, his 500 conquistedors and indian allies some 300 years earlier.

CA,

Guess what little man…the obnoxious term you used above, would never, in all my days, have ever even entered my mind, let alone come out of my lips (or in this case keyboard.) From the time I was 15 until I was 25, I smoked dope, dropped acid, popped black beauties, shot meth and coke, did mescaline, popped 714’s and other types of barbiturates (red and green), THC mixed with pot, and other things I’m sure I can’t even remember…all on top of various kinds of alcohol like tequila, etc. Been so stoned I wasn’t sure I was urinating in the toilet…and never, not once did I use the term “N”, as I find it so hateful and offensive and contrary to everything that I believe about humans, that it does not enter my mind and when around my blacks friends I cringe if they use it.

So, since it slips from your heart so easily, I shall leave it to you. If we had been in the French/Indian wars, I would have said “kicking some French butt”, or “kicking some English butt” or “kicking some Rebel butt” or “kicking some Mexican butt.” You know, a comment indicating whom we are fighting. Sort of like Laden was saying, “kicking some American pig butt”…only he didn’t. He killed a bunch of folks at work…and we are kicking his group’s butt.

Since you can’t see the point of the article, which was history, BTW, I guess I could show what my point was in simple language for you. It wasn’t racist, as you appear to think in the smallness of your soul. The Ottoman Empire had been forcing tribute from the Brits, French, and the US (as you read)…its called APPEASMENT in case you were wondering. They ruled loads of the world and tried to take over Europe as so many others had tried to do…thus part of the Crusades (which before your little mind goes off, I in no way condone.) According to the historical article above, we simply whopped up on them and made them stop pirating and plundering our stuff, thus making it safe for everyone else in the process. You will notice that no one else in Europe helped in the battles there, even though they were pirated as well. Europe always wants to tell us what to do, but never wants to put its money where its mouth is.

Also, in case you hadn’t noticed, ol’ Bin Laden did mention something about the glory of the empire in his last (partially) televised speech. Of course, he also mentioned Palestine, but most of us knows he probably could care less about them any more than the rest of the Middle East folks do…after all they got bucket loads of cash to throw around and they haven’t helped them at all in any meaningful way, except to provide cash to the terrorists who terrorize their own just as quick as they do us or Israel. We have been paying tribute to them, through financial aid, medical aid, food, etc. for years and it never gets better. What exactly would YOU do, oh wise one, to correct all the “injustices” we have perpetrated on the poor folks? After all, we did help them dig the wells they sit upon, and let them keep all the money they make off the entire world. We coulda just taken over and done it ourselves. We aren’t allowed to dig many of our own wells, thanks to the enviro-nuts and the Dems in congress, thus we remain dependent of folks who gouge us continually, making tons of cash off us, all the while whining they have nothing and we are oppressing them.

On top of all that, they speak of equality in the free world and freedom, but offer it to none but themselves. All the Islamic nations, with the exception of a few, MURDER, forcibly convert, rape and torture, Christian men, women, and children… NO ONE SAYS A BLOODY WORD ABOUT THEM, but us right wing fanatic religious kooks. It has happened for years…YEARS!! Do you remember Edi Amine? From Uganda…he murdered MILLIONS of Christians who were there long before he was…lovely Moslem fella. And he wasn’t the first. So, no I don’t hate Arabs…loads of them are Christians, though they are in hiding for fear of death. And no I don’t just care about the Christian Arabs (since that probably popped into your head about here.) But, name me one, just one of their leaders who haven’t oppressed them, let alone everyone else they come into contact with. The Arab peoples need freed of their oppressors…Moslem and Christian alike…need freed. And we are the tool at this time.

You can cry for appeasement all you want, but as for me…the government does not carry the sword in vain to be a terror to those who do right, but to evildoers. And Laden is evil, as are those of his ilk. For that matter the Roman Catholic Church was evil in its day, when it had power and you saw what happened to it. It was defeated by the reformation at the cost of millions of lives from the Inquisitions. Loads more Christians than others I might add. They too were evil and their power too was destroyed. So, I make no distinction in evil based on the ethnic lines of people. You draw those distinctions in your mind and attribute them to others. Evil is evil no matter who does it. The color of ones skin has little to do with he evil in the heart, since we all look the same without the skin.

So, please, don’t attribute your petty titles to me, as they don’t fit and are better for yourself.


Becky

You know, I posted some stuff I shouldn't have yesterday cause I was pissed off about something (which I won't get into). And I'm sorry for that. But saying It's because I have those thoughts.. Whatever.:rolleyes:

You also didn't have to write a book.. Besides, I think you have your politics all backwards. The Republican party is not the wonderful bunch you seem to think they are. And for the record I'm no Democrat. I see little difference between the two parties. They both feed from the same corporate troughs.

Maybe you should be asking why we're attacking a country so Unocal can build a pipeline there from the Caspian Sea? The government whom you so trust hasn't shown us one shred of proof Bin Laden was responsible for 911. And I've read the translated transcripts from his televised speech. He denied responsibility for the attacks. What we have is a case of a opportunistic government.

I also have a huge problem with throwing away our civil liberties because of 911. We don't need to do so to catch terrorists, it's just an excuse for the government to gain more control over our lives. Something I always thought Conservatives were against..

Originally posted by Corporate Avenger
You know, I posted some stuff I shouldn't have yesterday cause I was pissed off about something (which I won't get into). And I'm sorry for that. But saying It's because I have those thoughts.. Whatever.:rolleyes:

You also didn't have to write a book.. Besides, I think you have your politics all backwards. The Republican party is not the wonderful bunch you seem to think they are. And for the record I'm no Democrat. I see little difference between the two parties. They both feed from the same corporate troughs.

Maybe you should be asking why we're attacking a country so Unocal can build a pipeline there from the Caspian Sea? The government whom you so trust hasn't shown us one shred of proof Bin Laden was responsible for 911. And I've read the translated transcripts from his televised speech. He denied responsibility for the attacks. What we have is a case of a opportunistic government.

I also have a huge problem with throwing away our civil liberties because of 911. We don't need to do so to catch terrorists, it's just an excuse for the government to gain more control over our lives. Something I always thought Conservatives were against..


Having said that, I apologize for saying those were your thoughts, if they are not. I have found over the years, that people tend to atribute ideas and prejudices to othrs that htey hide in themselves. If that is not you, I'm glad for it is an ugly way to be. And I accept your apology, but try not to be (sorta) nice to me.....you wouldn't want to ruin your record of arguing with me, wouldya?? ;)

Trust me, I know the Reps are not all that. Many of thm are spinless wimps who have been castrated by the women, the libs, and well pretty much everyone. I am Rep because it does most closely resemble what I believe..the party platform that is, not the people. "They both feed from the same corporate troughs." This is a true statement, but not for all of those who are there. There are some who have backbone and the will to stand up for right and it is they I support. In the mean time I'm stuck with McCain....grrrr.

As to the Middle East, Bush an his group have shown the evidence to many leaders around the world and they agree that there is reason, and for now I'm satisfied. I put my faith in God, not some man, no matter who he is or how righteous or unrighteous. And to be honest I could care less about oil, as I think we should dig in Alaska and elsewhere.

As to what Laden denies, he probably also denies that they oppress women or destroy the lives of Christians, but so what. Who cares WHAT he says.....his actions prove otherwise.

For myself, I think we have been brought to this point for a reason. SOme may say its because we were attacked (and it is) others because we deserve it (we didn't.) I think and believe it is because the cry of the oppressed has not been listened to for so long and now is the time. They oppress their own and no one listens, they oppress the christian and no one listens......who will free them and answer their cries?

Have many not said we should help them? How do we stop someone like Lade? Kisses, hugs, and more cash? Get out of their land and kill all the Jews? What would they do then? What is your suggestion?

As to civil liberties, I do not feel mine have been shorted. As long as one abides by the laws one is not targeted. The cops are there for the lawbreakers. Those who abide by the laws should not fear the sword. Believe me, as a youth with a dime bag of weed in my pants, I hated the "pigs." I needed to fear them....I was breaking the law. And our rights are kept by the second amend. when all else fails. We vote them in, we can vote them out and if they subvert our rights, we take them back the same way we did when the Brits messed with us. "Lie free or die" is my new motto.

But, then I thought you wanted out form of gov. overthrown in favor of a commie form!!! ;)

As to the big eeeevil corps, yeah they do lots wrong. I ain't keen on them paying some Thai worker $2 while charging us $150 for the same shoe. They could pay the worker more and they should. Many things should change, but it takes men or women moved by a sense of what is right and honerable.....traits lacking in todays people. Well, most anyway.

I could go on, but my book may tire you!! :D I am sorry you had trouble yesterday and I hope you are better today. See, that didn't hurt too bad did it? Civility is nice sometimes.

Becky

The article implies that the success of the solution to piracy is directly proportional to how many Muslims are killed. Or is it implying that the CIA's involvement in creating evildoers was tribute? :confused: Or are they suggesting that North Africa would have been better off conquered by Hitler?

Piracy on the open seas in nothing new and is still a danger particularly in places like the Caribbean. Should all folks living in the Caribean be snuffed? Maybe they are responding to the looting and massacres of Columbus (real name Cristoforo Colombo), Hernando Cortez (destroyed Aztecs) and Pizarro (destroyed Incas). The Phoenicians, Vikings, Irish, and British to name a few enjoyed piracy as a means to acquire a little silver and gold. Not all towelheads were pirates, probably not many at all. They would have got their asses kicked by European pirates if they were a real threat. The European pirate ships usually evolved as a result of a mutiny and the crew figured there wasn't a lot of job opportunity a hundred miles at sea. ;)

If there was no market for the pirated vessel and inventory of goods, there would have been no piracy. Barbarossa and his Barbary pirates were also responding to Spaniards and Portuguese invaders. How is Bin Laden's call to defeat his enemy different from Pope Urban II asking those who have been previously been robbers to now become soldiers of Christ and that robbing throughout Europe and Asia would complete penance for all sin? Are the crusaders evildoers or religious fanatics, or peasants who had no better alternatives adn were manipulated by evildoers in power?

Financial piracy exists today in many forms today. Taxation and insurance being prime examples. There are many non-Muslims countries paid through the UN and foreign aid to behave in certain agreed upon ways that better fit the definition of receiving tribute and booty.

Snouter, all that article did was point out that sometimes force is the only thing a bully understands and very clearly illustrated that appeasement doesn't work. No where in there was there a call for the genocide of all arabs. In fact if you paid attention, we even employed Arab cavalry as mercenaries to help us in that situation.

Another fact is that we attacked their ships & a couple of their cities. We didn't go on some crazed march across north Africa killing everything in sight. All in all, I think it was quite a justified response to having to give up 1/5 our national revenue to these pirates.

Rather or not the CIA is partially to blame for the current mess is more appropriately debated in the Politics or In The News forum. Personally I think it is too, but as said, that's another forum. The rest of your commentary seems to be along the lines of it's always existed elsewhere so we should have just taken it up the rear, which falls into the category of two wrongs making a right.

The commentary about if there was no market for pirated goods is even more disturbing... That's blaming the victims of a crime to justify it. Just because there's an underground market for your TV. PC and car, does that give a criminal a right to come take them and possibly cause you bodily harm in the process?

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Snouter, all that article did was point out that sometimes force is the only thing a bully understands and very clearly illustrated that appeasement doesn't work. No where in there was there a call for the genocide of all arabs. In fact if you paid attention, we even employed Arab cavalry as mercenaries to help us in that situation.

There are number of people who think that Islam considers non-Islams infidels and must therefore be killed. Earlier in the Taliban War, some folks here were suggesting a nuke 'em all approach to Islamic countries. This is along those lines I am afraid although now some of the people are saying we should just get the Taliban and the Al Queda network maybe after they see that most Islamics are pathetic, impoverished, backward people who have no idea what is going on.

The article says France and Britain supported those Barbary Pirates as America became independent, the implication being free trade was a threat to their monopolies. These Moorish sea robbers organized state sponsered piracy from Algeria and Tunisia as a form of revenue. How much information and training elements from Britain and France gave the pirates is unknown. A Flemish renegade Simon Danser did teach these Moors and Sultans about the advantages of using sailing vessels for their piracy. Barbary Piracy ultimatey ended when France took over Algiers. So we could argue Barbary pirates were France's Taliban who they encouraged to prevent competition from America. It got out of control, so they finally squashed it.

Maybe a more appropriate analogy for piracy today would be OPEC.

The rest of your commentary seems to be along the lines of it's always existed elsewhere so we should have just taken it up the rear, which falls into the category of two wrongs making a right.

I was trying to point out that evil is one of the driving forces in world history and not exclusively Islamic.

The commentary about if there was no market for pirated goods is even more disturbing... That's blaming the victims of a crime to justify it. Just because there's an underground market for your TV. PC and car, does that give a criminal a right to come take them and possibly cause you bodily harm in the process?

The point is that the recipient of the pirated goods or people knew they were stolen or enslaved. Yet the conditions were such then that for some reason, receiving stolen property was not important as long as the stuff was of value. If people refused to receive stolen items, or if the laws treated them as equal criminals, then the pirating business wouldn't have had a future.

Originally posted by Momof6
My hubby found this link at WND. History shall repeat itself with the defeat of the "revised" Ottoman Empire.


http://earlyamerica.com/review/2002_winter_spring/terrorism.htm
Hey "Mom" (sorry, I just love your screen name), did you hear the latest thing the Army is now saying in Afghanistan,

They say its God's duty to forgive Osama Bin Laden but its their job to arrange the meeting.:D

Originally posted by Criminal

Hey "Mom" (sorry, I just love your screen name), did you hear the latest thing the Army is now saying in Afghanistan,

They say its God's duty to forgive Osama Bin Laden but its their job to arrange the meeting.:D


Please feel free to call me Mom....everyone else does and I don't object at all.

The comment by the groundpounders doesn't suprise me at all. During our "altercation" with Lybia and Quadafi (sp?) in .....was it 1982ish.......the flyboys I knew always said stuff like that.

I was just glad to see on TV some of our boys over there having church on sunday's, praying out loud. During the war with Saddam, while they were in Saudi they weren't allowed to have Bibles or church or pray, due to the intollerance of the Saudi princes.

BTW, it isn't God's duty to forgive anyone unless they repent of thier sins, as I'm sure you know, but I catch the general Idea!! :D

Originally posted by Momof6

I was just glad to see on TV some of our boys over there having church on sunday's, praying out loud. During the war with Saddam, while they were in Saudi they weren't allowed to have Bibles or church or pray, due to the intollerance of the Saudi princes.

Where did you hear this? I know several people who became christians over there and talk about reading the bible a lot because there wasn't much else to do, cept drink MRE wine.;)

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
No news to us ex-jarheads here Becky... That's one of the many furballs drummed into you at basic training. At least it used to be back in '87... Corp history was taught right along with marching & shooting:D
My Drill Instructers NEVER told me there were 50 Greek mercenaries with those 8 Marines in that Battle, only that is was Lt Pressley O'Bannon and some Marines, period!

It is interesting to read of Chapultipec, also, had an Army regiment involved in the assault on the Mexican President's compound, and that is was a several day battle, with one of the distinguishing Army officers involved being Ulysses S. Grant as a young Captain I believe. However, the Marines did storm the final hill alone and capture the palace, but they did not get there alone, the Army was engaged in a fierce battle on the other side of that hill, losing many men and killing many, also.