I asked some questions in another thread about mormons cause i am very curious about their history and culture. I would lik eto know more about their general beliefs and such. I have heard things about their version of paradise and suchh and am wondering if they are true also. Well anyways sorry this post is just a question and not some long article filled with information. I just dont feel like writing a history novel today and thought it better to learn things today than teach everyone else. Any help would be appreciated.
P.S. If you reply please type the message yourself dont just give me some article to read. I am interested in hearing things in your own words not reading things from a book. No offence just sick of long articles. If the article is that good give me a link and i will check it out later. :)

I did a report on Mormons once. Wish I could remember everything I found. I will try to find it so I can reaquaint myself with everything in it. :)

~me

Hey Thanks. Its nice to see that with over a 1000 members only one person can take the time to reply to my thread... :D

Originally posted by Shelter
Hey Thanks. Its nice to see that with over a 1000 members only one person can take the time to reply to my thread... :D

What exactly would like to know?

Most basically its just another sect of Christianity. They believe in the 10 commandments etc.

The founding of the religion is interesting since its predicated on the idea that Christ appeared in America at some point and conversed with the native people's here. The religion's founder, Joseph Smith, was the prophet who dictated the book of Mormon, claiming to have spoken to God and been given posession of a number of golden tablets which he translated from an enochian angelic tongue.

Most of the most bizarre/controversial practices of the church have disappeared. I dont find the religion itself so interesting as I do the history of migration and sort of anthropology of the mormon' as a group.

Its a very fast growing and increasingly affluent church and there are still a number of quirky practices. They definately represent a new take (relatively) on an old concept (protestant christanity).

I remember a joke about tht mormon religion that went something about how they were the only religion where you could buy their bible only on new release aisles at bookstores. So how in the world do they think Jesus ever got to America seeing as it wasnt discovered until well after his death???
I am interested in their basic beliefs and in the quirky habits and ideas of theirs. Just a basic quest for information. And I thank you for replying.

well shelter, speaking as a former member of this "quirky religion", I may be able to help you out. First off, they belive that Jesus visited the "native americans" in the new world directly after his death. They also belive that the people who came to America were actually decendants of the Isrealites of the time. They also belive that their prophets, like those of old, recieve on a regular basis inspiration from God. They write these down and they become scripture, just like from the bible over the last several thousand years. They also made some additions to the bible as dictated from divine inspiration. These few extra verses are said to correct mistakes made during milenia of translations.

Do you have any more specific questions? I can try to answer them, but I haven't been involved in the church for a while and it is always changing.

I appreciate the help here. i dont know of any specific questions as of right now, just a general desire to learn a bit more about it as it is a religion I am fairly uneducated on.
I remember hearing something once long ago about the mormons believing they could take their worldly wealth to paradise with them. And something about the LTS were one of the largest buyers of raw gold around. Any truth to this or any partial truths in it as far as you know?

Mormonism is not Christianity. I'm not on expert on Mormonism, but I know that much.

Here's a link for you. :)

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-r002.html

I have to disagree with you buttercup. The definition of christianity is the belife that Jesus Christ is the son of god and the Savior of man. Every other religion has added to that and so have the Mormons.

Actually, Christians believe Jesus is more than just the Son of God.. Jesus is God (the second of the trinity)

Mormons do not believe that. Did you read that link btw?

Originally posted by Jay13
I have to disagree with you buttercup. The definition of christianity is the belife that Jesus Christ is the son of god and the Savior of man. Every other religion has added to that and so have the Mormons.
Jay, there is a real problem with that definition. While Mormonism fits in with the term "Christendom", it is NOT Christian. It contains words and concepts from Christianity, but it is NOT Christian.

Christianity is the belief that Jesus was the Messiah for Israel, that God revealed His word through the Jews through prophets, and that He is the ONLY God there is, and that He exists in 3 persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Jesus is the 2nd person of the trinity, not just another God.

Another main point is that Salvation in Christianity is done by FAITH in the penalty Jesus paid on the cross, while in Mormonism you have to perform works to please God.

Christianity is also based on the Bible, while Mormonism is based on the teachings of Joseph Smith. Smith claimed to ave Angels visit him and deliver, or reveal, several gold plates that contained a history of 'lost Jews' that supposedly lived here in the Americas that had moved here during the diaspora from Israel, from both the dispersion of the Assyrian captivity and the Babylonian captivity, and also after the temple was destroyed in AD70.

Mormons believe that when Jesus said the following:

(John 10:15 KJV) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
(John 10:16 KJV) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
(John 10:17 KJV) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. ;

That He meant those other sheep were lost Jews in the Americas, and that is when He supposedly went to the Americas to teach them.

It is totally contradictory to believe this, for If Jesus came to Israel to be the sacrifice for sin on the Cross in Jerusalem, and fulfilled many prophecies, where are the prophecies that He was to go to the Americas? What kind of death did Jesus die in America for sin? Christ was the Passover lamb, sent to die for our sins on the cross, and He died in Jerusalem, so, for Jesus to have to raise up and then go somewhere else, His death could NOT have been what He and the writers of the New Testament said it was; The penalty for the sins of the world

The Good News of the Gospel is that Christ died, was buried, and rose again the 3rd day, According to the Scriptures. That death on the cross was to pay the penalty for the sins of the entire world, but if Mormon theology is true, then Jesus DIDNT die for the sins of the world, He had to come to America to die for them there.

If that type of logic is carried out, then Jesus had to go to every country and die, something that would make his death on the cross meaningless if he had to keep doing it over and over again.

Mormons also believe that God the Father used to be a MAN, a literal human man, and that me, you, Jesus and Satan are all spirit children. Elohim is the father, Jesus, Satan, me, and you are all children. That means me, you, Jesus , and Satan are brothers. Think about that one for a while, you are Satan's brother?

Also, when people die, if they earn their way into heaven, they get their own planet to be their own God to, just like Elohim got his planet, you or I will get our own planet to be God over. We will need many wives to populate it with, too.

Mormons also believe they will have plural wives in Heaven. They are bonded in the wedding ceremony, and the husband has the authority to call up his wife after death to be with him in haven, or he can leave her in the grave and take another.

Mormons also believe that dead people can have someone be baptised for them, that means your great grandfather, the priest, can have someone sit in a pool, be baptised in his name, and all of a sudden your great grandfather is a Mormon!

Mormons have got to be some of the nicest people I have ever met, but spiritually, there are as far from Christianity as any cult can get. They have a different Jesus than the Bible teaches, and Different God the Father, too.

Originally posted by Jay13
I have to disagree with you buttercup. The definition of christianity is the belife that Jesus Christ is the son of god and the Savior of man. Every other religion has added to that and so have the Mormons.
I didnt really state what I believe what Christianity should be defined as in 2 sentences, so, please excuse the long cut-and-paste, but here is the church I attend, and their Statement of Faith:

STATEMENT OF FAITH
OF THE
MIDDLETOWN BIBLE CHURCH

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. The Holy Scriptures

We believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the verbally inspired word of God, the final authority for faith and life, inerrant in the original writings, infallible and God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:20-21; Matthew 5:18; John 16:12-13).

2. The Godhead

We believe in one Triune God, eternally existing in three persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--Co-eternal in being, co-identical in nature, co-equal in power and glory, and having the same attributes and perfections (Deuteronomy 6:4; 2 Corinthians 13:14).

3. The Person and Work of Christ

a. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, became man, without ceasing to be God, having been conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary, in order that He might reveal God and redeem sinful men (John 1:1,2,14; Luke 1:35).

b. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ accomplished our redemption through His death on the cross as a representative, vicarious, substitutionary sacrifice; and, that our justification is made sure by His literal, physical resurrection from the dead (Romans 3:24,25; 1 Peter 2:24; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Peter 1:3-5).

c. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ ascended to heaven, and is now exalted at the right hand of God, where, as our High Priest, He fulfills the ministry of Representative, Intercessor, and Advocate (Acts 1:9,10; Hebrews 9:24; 7:25; Romans 8:34; 1 John 2:1-2).

4. The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit

a. We believe that the Holy Spirit is a person who convicts the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment; and, that He is the Supernatural Agent in regeneration, baptizing all believers into the body of Christ, indwelling and sealing them unto the day of redemption (John 16:8-11; 2 Corinthians 3:6; 1 Corinthians 12:12-14; Romans 8:9; Ephesians 1:13-14).

b. We believe that He is the Divine Teacher who guides believers into all truth; and, that it is the privilege and duty of all the saved to be filled with the Spirit (John 16:13; 1 John 2:20,27; Ephesians 5:18).

5. The Total Depravity of Man

We believe that man was created in the image and likeness of God, but that in Adam's sin the race fell, inherited a sinful nature, and became alienated from God; and, that man is totally depraved, and, of himself, utterly unable to remedy his lost condition (Genesis 1:26-27; Romans 3:22-23; Ephesians 2:1-3,12).

6. Salvation

We believe that salvation is the gift of God brought to man by grace and received by personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, whose precious blood was shed on Calvary for the forgiveness of our sins (Ephesians 2:8-10; John 1:12; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Peter 1:18-19).

7. The Eternal Security and Assurance of Believers

a. We believe that all the redeemed, once saved, are kept by God's power and are thus secure in Christ forever (John 6:37-40; 10:27-30; Romans 8:1,38,39; 1 Corinthians 1:4-8; 1 Peter 1:5).

b. We believe that it is the privilege of believers to rejoice in the assurance of their salvation through the testimony of God's Word; which however, clearly forbids the use of Christian liberty as an occasion to the flesh (Romans 13:13-14; Galatians 5:13; Titus 2:11-15).

8. The Two Natures of the Believer

We believe that every saved person possesses two natures, with provision made for victory of the new nature over the old nature through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit; and, that all claims to the eradication of the old nature in this life are unscriptural (Romans 6:13; 8:12-13; Galatians 5:16-25; Ephesians 4:22-24; Colossians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:14-16; 1 John 3:5-9).

9. Separation

We believe that all saved should live in such a manner as not to bring reproach upon their Saviour and Lord; and, that separation from all religious apostasy, all worldly and sinful pleasures, practices and associations is commanded of God (2 Timothy 3:1-5; Romans 12:1-2; 14:13; 1 John 2:15-17; 2 John 9-11; 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1).

10. Missions

We believe that it is the obligation of the saved to witness by life and by word to the truths of Holy Scripture and to seek to proclaim the Gospel to all mankind (Mark 16:15; Acts 1:8; 2 Corinthians 5:19-20).

11. The Ministry and Spiritual Gifts

a. We believe that God is sovereign in the bestowment of all His gifts; and, that the gifts of evangelists, pastors, and teachers are sufficient for the perfecting of the saints today; and, that speaking in tongues and the working of sign miracles gradually ceased as the New Testament Scriptures were completed and their authority became established (1 Corinthians 12:4-11; 2 Corinthians 12:12; Ephesians 4:7-12).

b. We believe that God does hear and answer the prayer of faith, in accord with His own will, for the sick and afflicted (John 15:7; 1 John 5:14-15).

12. The Church

a. We believe that the Church, which is the body and the espoused bride of Christ, is a spiritual organism made up of all born-again persons of this present age (Ephesians 1:22-23; 5:25,27; 1 Corinthians 12:12-14; 2 Corinthians 11:2).

b. We believe that the establishment and continuance of local churches is clearly taught and defined in the New Testament Scriptures (Acts 14:27; 20:17,28-32; 1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:5-11).

13. Ordinances

We believe that two ordinances are significant above any other that Christians are commanded to observe, namely, water baptism and the Lord's Supper. While recognizing that Water Baptism has no saving merit it is our conviction that after one is saved, Baptism is the next step in order to portray to the world the believer's union with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. It is our conviction that the scriptural method of Water Baptism is immersion. We believe that Jesus Christ instituted the Lord's Supper to commemorate His death till He comes. We further believe that Water Baptism by immersion is observed but once, and is a sign of identification, and testimony to newness of life, but the Lord's Supper is commemorative and is to be observed often as a memorial of the Body and the Shed Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord's Supper shall be open to all born again believers (Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:9-13; Matthew 28:19; 1 Corinthians 11:23-33).

14. The Personality of Satan

We believe that Satan is a person, the author of sin and the cause of the fall; that he is the open and declared enemy of God and man; and, that he shall be eternally punished in the Lake of Fire (Job 1:6-7; Isaiah 14:12-17; 2 Corinthians 4:3-4; 1 Peter 5:8; Matthew 4:2-11; 25:41; Revelation 20:10).

15. Dispensationalism

We believe in the dispensational view of Bible interpretation but reject the extreme teaching known as "Hyper Dispensationalism," such as that teaching which opposes either the Lord's Table or water baptism as a Scriptural means of testimony for the church in this age (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 2:41-42; 18:8; 1 Corinthians 11:23-26).

16. The Second Advent of Christ

We believe in that "blessed hope," the personal, imminent, pre-tribulation and premillennial coming of the Lord Jesus Christ for His redeemed ones; and in His subsequent return to earth, with His saints, to establish His Millennial Kingdom (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Zechariah 14:4-11; Revelation 19:11-16; 20:1-6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 5:9; Revelation 3:10; Titus 2:13; 1 Corinthians 15:51-52; John 14:1-3).

17. The Eternal State

a. We believe in the bodily resurrection of all men, the saved to eternal life, and the unsaved to judgment and everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46; John 5:28-29; 11:25-26; Revelation 20:5,6,12,13).

b. We believe that the souls of the redeemed are, at death, absent from the body and present with the Lord, where in conscious bliss they await the first resurrection, when spirit, soul, and body are reunited to be glorified forever with the Lord (Luke 23:43; Revelation 20:4-6; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23; 3:21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).

c. We believe that the souls of the unbelievers remain, after death, in conscious misery until the second resurrection, when with soul and body reunited they shall appear at the Great White Throne Judgment, and shall be cast into the Lake of Fire, not to be annihilated, but to suffer everlasting conscious punishment (Luke 16:19-26; Matthew 25:41-46; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; Jude 6-7; Mark 9:43-48; Revelation 20:11-15).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: In subscribing to these articles of faith we by no means set aside or undervalue any of the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, but we deem the knowledge, belief and acceptance of the truth as set forth in our Doctrinal Statement to be essential to sound faith and faithful practice.

Um just ta let you guys know, although this is getting a bit off topic, feel free to debate about the is mormon christian thing as much as ya like. i like to read it all so you will get no complaints from me. :)

Originally posted by Shelter
Um just ta let you guys know, although this is getting a bit off topic, feel free to debate about the is mormon christian thing as much as ya like. i like to read it all so you will get no complaints from me. :)
Well, no, the last post was just to let you know what the basics of the Christian faith were n a way that could be spelled out in a nutshell, my church's doctrinal statement is just a short paper in a way, that puts it all in one page so-to-speak.

That's all I was doing. What you might do, is find a webpage that spells out what Mormon doctrine is, and what verses defend it, and compare the two documents. You will see, when you read what the Bible says, that the Mormon doctrine is NOT from the Bible and what it plainly says, but is twisted, and needs the book of Mormon to add to it.

Here is an interesting verse to consider whan thinking of the angels revelation to Joseph Smith:

(Gal 1:6 KJV) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

(Gal 1:7 KJV) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

(Gal 1:8 KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(Gal 1:9 KJV) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Mormonism clealy says that an angel came down and gave another gospel! One that depends on Joseph Smith is a judge over others for salvation, that Jesus is NOT the only Son of Gos.

Yeah I understand. I am Christian also. No need to convert me. I am just seeking basic knowledge. learning about religions is a hobby of mine, and i wanted to hear peoples experiences and knowledge before i start just reading about stuff. you learn different things that people think important by talking about it.

Originally posted by Shelter
Yeah I understand. I am Christian also. No need to convert me. I am just seeking basic knowledge. learning about religions is a hobby of mine, and i wanted to hear peoples experiences and knowledge before i start just reading about stuff. you learn different things that people think important by talking about it.

Look up Sandra Tanner, she is a decendant of John D. Lee, one of the Mormon Murderers...

Do a GOOGLE search, she has a lot to say! :)

Thanks for the info all. I am looking through the link from Buttercup and researching Tanner tonight when i get home.

http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/questions/0,8789,895-1-2,00.html

Here is a link that should prove to have some useful information... When you are looking, might as well go to the source. The mormons have put up a great site with answers to all kinds of problems. They are on the whole a nice group of people, but they seem to live in a rosy haze about everything and perfection. But that is just my beef with the church.

Thanks for the link jay. Had good info and i appreciate it. Just finished reading it all now.

Mormons make great porn stars. :|

If Christ came to the indians after being resurrected, it would have served as the second coming and thus the fulfillment of the prophecy of revelations. The book seems to forget about the conquest of America and the conversion of the Indians to Catholics by the Spaniards. The work of an angel? Only if you consider Cortes, Pizarro, and the rest of the Conquistadores to be heaven sent. :)

i know some one who recently converted to mormanism, so i found this thread very informative. thanks for the info. and i found this thread interesting to see different points of view.

I had a friend who was a Mormon, and as a result I did some research into it which mostly involved reading the Book of Mormon. The result of this study was the following points written in a letter to him explaining why there was no way we could continue being friends; I'm posting it because I thought you might be interested.


1) Joseph Smith claims the Lamenites—a.k.a. Amerinds—were Israelites, "cursed by God" with dark skin. The idea that God darkened the skin tonation of the Lamenites does not explain their straight dark hair or high cheek bones which place them unquestionably into the Asiatic racial group, while the Jews are Caucasoid. The two peoples are totally unrelated.

2) Joseph Smith claims to have found Golden Tablets with his holy books written on them somewhere in the New York area. The Amerinds had not advanced to the point of goldworking or brassworking, so they could not have written the tablets. Remember that the Amerinds were a bunch of stone aged primitives who were proud to use rock (obsidian) arrowheads.

3) Similarly, the Amerinds did not know how to mix concrete or anything "like concrete" as JS described finding around the golden tablets. Had the Amerinds known how to do this they would have used the concrete to build mighty cities, tabernacles, and other such structures.

4) By contrast, the Jews as a people were relatively advanced. They possessed all manner of agricultural knowledge and metallurgical techniques which were not even slightly displayed by the primitive Amerinds encountered by European immigrants. Granted that all of this technology could have been lost since the annihilation of the Nephites and Jaredites which Joseph Smith described, one thing would still have remained: Structures—the structures which any civilization would make, having knowledge of concrete and stonemasonry. No evidence of any such structures is to be found in or around New York (or anywhere else in what is now the US).

5) While it may have seemed no small matter for these Israelites to have reached America in the eyes an American, America is one of the most secluded and remote lands to find, being practically opposite the Middle East geographically speaking. For Jews to have arrived here in not one but two migrations is a bigger deal than Joseph Smith thought.

6) JS, being a poorly educated American youth, could not have single-handedly translated 531 pages from an unknown language using only a pair of linguistic keys (neither of which could have afforded him any real aid, since, as they were purportedly interred in American soil in 481 AD, they could not have contained any translations into English or any other recognizably modern Germanic dialect.) If, as it is said, God Himself gave him the ability to translate (which he supposedly lost for a time when a friend of his took a reverend into his confidence and was betrayed, but that’s another story) what is the purpose of the Urim and Thummim? {note - the Urim an Thummim were these "linguistic keys"**

7) Joseph Smith was born in New York in the early 1800’s, yet the Stick of Joseph {book of Mormon** reads like the King James Bible. Neither Joseph Smith, nor any of his witnesses, would have had any reason to write in Shakespearean English except to give their words the ring of King James religiosity. The entire Book of Mormon with its "Yea" "Verely," and "Behold" is, to someone viewing it without having grown up Mormon, an obvious attempt to copy the style of the Bible, thus borrowing its authenticity.

8) In a way the style of the Book of Mormon bears a sense of desperation, perpetually attempting to wheedle its reader into belief in its authenticity. It is constantly reminding us of who is supposed to be writing it, and constantly telling us that "these words are true." Such repetition is extremely useful in boring into the minds of the suggestible reader. And then at the end when Moroni says that anyone who prays and asks God with humility whether the book of Mormon is true will have it revealed to him as the truth—I ask you frankly, speaking from a strictly psychological standpoint, how likely is it for someone not to feel moved when praying in such a manner?

{Incidentally, I did in fact pray, after discovering most of these things, and the words "Do not speak to me with that thing in your hands" came to my mind, so I put the Book of Mormon down. Whether this is a message from God or from my subconscious' refusal to accept Mormonism is up to you to decide.**

9) It’s interesting to note the same idiotic similarity to Islam, which also adores prophecy and revelation. So I ask "How do the two of you explain one another?" Invariably the answer, coming from both, is simple: "Joseph Smith/Mohammed did not really see or hear the angel Nephi/Gabriel and was instead simply a lunatic or charlatan. But Mohammed/Joseph Smith was truly chosen by God." Right, so, um, why should we believe Joseph Smith, a known treasure hunter, storyteller and rapscallion, any more than this dehydrated brown person called Moe?

10) The entire story of Joseph Smith would have been open to a great deal of scrutiny had he retained possession of the Golden Plates (along with the supposed keys to their translation, the Urim and Thummim). It does not follow that God would have wanted to avoid this scrutiny by sending Moroni to recover the tablets, since the truth has nothing to fear from scrutiny. There is absolutely no reason for the tablets to have been bestowed and then taken away, and moreso no reason for Moroni to have forbidden JS to have given them up to anyone, unless they never existed.


More information from a different angle can be found in this interesing article: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/stephen_eck/mormon.html

--Mark

Hey thanks man. I know ya dont like me and all but I appreciate the info. I like to see as many views as I can and then make decisions on things as to what I believe. You have been most helpful night wolf.