I have noticed marriage is the core of this discussion, not just sex.

I am wondering why marriage is "the goal" and why you race to get married. I thinks its fine when two people find "the perfect" person. But when you are 18,19,20, you are likely to change from the person you are within the next few years.

Look at it like this- the two of you are two lines: You are very near each other, and each of you angle in just slightly different directions. As you grow, and time passes, the lines can seperate more and more. Maybe it will work out, but why try to pour cement all over the place. Stay together, but marriage is just a piece of paper and a diamond ring.

Well Im not sure which discussion your refering to... but I dont think anyone here is "rushing off to get married" I know Im certainly no doing it... what specifically were you refering to?


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Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting.
Alan Dean Foster, "To the Vanishing Point"

Well I got married because my gf was pregnant and it seemed like the good thing to do at 28 or 29. As it turned out it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Luckily we had both had our fair share of whoring around in the past. I cant imagine getting married at 19 and wonding if there was something I missed.

What I dont get is people who get married with no plan on raising a family. Why buy the cow when the milk is free? I have a friend who got married to a girl who said she would NEVER have kids. She was great in the sack and said he didnt want to loose that killer azz! http://discussanything.com/Ubb/rolleyes.gif



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Winner of the "peoples Choice award" for supreme advocate for the people!

I'm not "always right", it just seems that way

Spelling is for kids! I think you got the point!

Originally posted by ChaoticThoughts:
I have noticed marriage is the core of this discussion, not just sex.

I am wondering why marriage is "the goal" and why you race to get married. I thinks its fine when two people find "the perfect" person. But when you are 18,19,20, you are likely to change from the person you are within the next few years.

Look at it like this- the two of you are two lines: You are very near each other, and each of you angle in just slightly different directions. As you grow, and time passes, the lines can seperate more and more. Maybe it will work out, but why try to pour cement all over the place. Stay together, but marriage is just a piece of paper and a diamond ring.


Well i see marriage as something extremly more significant than a diamond ring and a piece of paper. I believe I don't even need those things to reconize A marriage or my marriage (when i do get married). Marriage to me is something more deeper than just materialistic "sybols" of what marriage has come to be these days. Marriage to me is a eternal promise between a husband, a wife and GOD. Marriage is taken very lightly this day and age, with people wanting to rush and hurry things, cause of a pregnancy ( ia m from one of those, but rents are still together) getting married for lust and not love and then realizing their "mistakes" after the fact. Marriage is really hard work, and a lot of people (mostly young) believe just cause they are in love it will be peaches and cream and smooth sailing ahead...well sorry to say that nothing in life is that easy. Marriage involves Love (undonditional),communication (LOTS of it), trust, stability (in more than one way) amongst a long list of other things. You must be willing to work on your marriage at all times at all costs. Be willing to give everything you can to make it work or to make your husband and/or family happy. It definatly becomes less you(as in yourself) and more YOU (as in a couple and or family).
Marriage is not about splitting your lives and the bills it is about brining your lives together ans sharing them as one,good and bad, sickness and health and to death do you part (my beliefs, i do not believe in divorce.) My personal opinion on people who get divorced is that they weren't meant to be together but I believe that something may have hindered that from showing when they decided to get married or that they were just plain stubborn about it. Of course there are different circumstances and what not, but I can not possibly bring up each and every one of them. Do i know I will be marrying the man I am with now, YES...and I getting married soon...NO But to be honest more than likely within several years though. I do not feel that I am rushing into anything blind or hindered what so ever. I do know that most people may not agree with me because they think someone my age (18) does not know what the want out of life, let a lone a marriage or a relationship. I will have to agree with them in the matter that MOST people my age don't know what they want but I have to disagree with them when it comes to me not knowing what I want. I very much know what I want out of life and my relationship. Of COURSE you change from the person you are now into someone else in the next five years, but do you honestly think that only stops after you pass your early 20's. Everyone is constantly changing as a person and alway's will be. You have to be able to incoporate your changes into the marriage, that all about working at your marriage. I don't believe that most people are ready to get married at 18,19,20 and so on, but there are those few that I believe are ready and can handle the responsability of it. Far and few between though may I add. I really can not wait to share total commitment, trust, and love with my husband through God. Now as far as sex comes, that is not an issue for me in my relationship because sex is not the bassis of our relationship or our love. I personally do not believe in sex until marriage. That's why the core of this discussion for me is marriage and not sex...I want sex... WHO DOESN'T LOL but I want a true,lasting, committed relationship in LOVE and trust with my husband the man who I have been waiting for my whole life. Making love to me is more than just physical pleasure, it is very deep in spiritually and emotional qualities which I feel a lot of relationships lack these days....I better stop here http://discussanything.com/Ubb/smile.gif I coul go on and on , on this subject hehe. These are just my beliefs and how I view things..I don't condem anyone elses beliefs or actions...everyone has the right to believe in what they want and act according to how thye want to. This is just what I feel is right for ME http://discussanything.com/Ubb/smile.gif
*AngelGirl*


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***"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."***

One think for sure as most people get older, they become more set in their ways. I would say generally possible marriage ages would be 30 or above for males and 25 or above for females.

Females living alone, however, become set in their ways sooner than those who live with family or roomates. By set in their ways, I mean they can't take contructive advice without being offended.

Well, let me take this in another direction-
Other than a symoblic merge and all that, would it not be sufficiant to just be together? If your love is so great, you would not need to get married, you would stay together anyway.

I know it is tradition, and families can try to convience you to do so. But, do you think it is neccisary today?

Originally posted by ChaoticThoughts:
Well, let me take this in another direction-
Other than a symoblic merge and all that, would it not be sufficiant to just be together? If your love is so great, you would not need to get married, you would stay together anyway.

I know it is tradition, and families can try to convience you to do so. But, do you think it is neccisary today?


Hey Chaotic,

Well really I think it all depends on the person/couple and their beliefs. I will not get married just because it's "tradition" to do so or because my family is trying to convince me to. Is it neccessary to get married today in society...that's easy..NO. BUT it all depends on the person. Some people are completly content with living together long term with no marriage, others persue the "courting" period, decide to get engaged and then married. People get married for many different reasons, all the reasons may not be right to me, but it may be right for/to them. I will get married because I am in love and I want to commit myself to my Husband through God, eternaly. I feel that in order to have a family, it should be in a marriage and not out of wedlock. I am not saying that people who have children when they are not married will raise disturbed children. I do however think that if the child's enviorment isn't loving and stable it may cause problems in the future for that child as he or she grows up. I feel I can provide my children the best enviorment through a loving marriage.

Of course we could love and live without getting married but I feel that marriage brings a relationship to a whole other level and meaning that only can be achieved through a marriage. I am definatly talking religiously here. Marriage is a ceremony preforemed to show God (if you are religious)and everyone(your family and friends) your undying love and commitment to each other.

I think this is a hard question to answer Chaotic, because I can only answer for myself and from my view point. I know that everyone will have different opinions on this due to different backrounds and differnt beliefs (general and religious.) We'll see who else posts!
Take care
*AngelGirl*


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***"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."***

You get married so you can put your husband on your insurance. http://discussanything.com/Ubb/smile.gif

Actually, I think it's a sign of devotion and a promise of respect/love. I suppose you don't need any legal documents for this, you can make your own vows 'n such? I've no experience in the matter. For my fiancee and I it is more of what I stated before, a symbol of our life. We're not religious, we're both agnostic, so it has nothing to do with any sort of tradition or deity.



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Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt. -- Clarence Darrow

Chaotic...you are right to a point.
Marriage is more of a societal (and for some religious) thing.

The REAL important things are the emotions, feelings, and the bond you specifcally have with your person.

That is however you like to show it, but to the outer world, that is manefested by marriage.

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Manu Narayan

Dave I agree with you on the age thing.

If you're younger, and think about marriage why not wait? If you thought you loved the person enough to marry, the relationship shoudl survive for a few years till perhaps you're done wiht school, in a solid job, etc etc.

I don't get it when I hear people that are 18-22 getting married. it scares me to death!

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Manu Narayan

Originally posted by Fordman50:

What I dont get is people who get married with no plan on raising a family. Why buy the cow when the milk is free? I have a friend who got married to a girl who said she would NEVER have kids. She was great in the sack and said he didnt want to loose that killer azz! http://discussanything.com/Ubb/rolleyes.gif



Ah ha ha ha! Now thats philosophy from the bedroom.

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"He could not plead want of employment, nor incapacity of getting his bread in an honest way, but frankly own'd it was to get rid of the disagreeable superiority of some masters he was acquainted with and the love of novelty and change."

William Defoe on Bartholomew Roberts career of piracy

Yea basically the practice of marriage was pushed by women and witchdoctors (priests) from way back when. It benefited women because it tied men to them while they were pregnant AND it helped end the threat of constant rape at the hands of other males. The priests then siezed on it as a way to control people. If you decry adultery a sin (this is true of many religions) then you are able to take control of peoples sexuality, ie no sex without the marriage being consecrated by a priest. As the priests warped the ethics of society to emphasize meekness, poverty, and submission the ritual of marriage became symbolic rite depiciting the priests' power over their subjects sexuality. It also had added bonus, atleast in the west, of enabling the priests to sell divorce at greatexpense to monarchs and to bind monarchs together for politicalends through marriage.

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"He could not plead want of employment, nor incapacity of getting his bread in an honest way, but frankly own'd it was to get rid of the disagreeable superiority of some masters he was acquainted with and the love of novelty and change."

William Defoe on Bartholomew Roberts career of piracy

Originally posted by D Durden:
the ONLY justification I can see for marriage is to raise kids. I think a kid needs parents and stability to develop properly.

humm, I think this is not a reasonable justification. Here is why- what about those who are married? One parent may be abusive, or a drunk, or whatever. That is not stable.

And marriage may have held people together, because their believes were so strong. They did not want to be seen badly in the eyes of god, nobody cares about that any more. You can attemt to make a stable environment, but marriage alone will do nothing.

Well, I've been stepping into it well today, why not again?? http://discussanything.com/Ubb/biggrin.gif http://discussanything.com/Ubb/biggrin.gif http://discussanything.com/Ubb/biggrin.gif

If you drop the legitimatization of sex for religious reasons, the ONLY justification I can see for marriage is to raise kids. I think a kid needs parents and stability to develop properly.

Other than that, it would be hard for most men to justify marriage. I mean, no one likes to be "alone", but I like to be left alone A LOT. I've been divorced a year, and I do NOT miss my ex. I LOVE having Lisa around (and Jel, too!) . . . don't get me wrong, but honestly, I like them there because I LOVE them. I don't feel some inner need to have a woman "domiciled" with me. Granted, I LOVE how the house smells when they're around . . . LOL!!!!! And NO ONE takes care of me like Lisa.

I don't know . . . the more I think about it, the more I remember my ex NOT being involved in anything I did. Lisa IS involved, so it's not like I have to make special time to do things I want to do. It's not a sacrifice for her to go to the race track or the shooting range. I'm still adjusting to that.

It's not like I wouldn't get married again. Actually, I really want to one day, but I don't have that burning urge to, you know? I like living my life. I love my girlfriend VERY much, but I don't feel rushed to "end" the fun we're having at this stage to move on to something else (that we'll have fun with, too!). Why rush? I guess I just want to have a REAL dating life for a while with her.

I do NOT see why anyone younger than 25 would even consider marriage. That's weird to me . . . I mean, you always read about those perfect couples, but the 20-30 other couples that fall apart are what I see day to day. I like the analogy of the 2 lines . . . that's perfect. It doesn't take much difference between two people to eventually drive them apart.

C.T. . . . you're right, if you have a marriage where one of the parents is abusive or whatever, no, it's not stable. However, it's more stable than if one of the parents was abusive in a SINGLE parent household.

No matter how you spin it, on an average, kids are better of with a mom and dad than one of either. And not every family is made up of an abusive father and an alcoholic mother. MANY traditional families are QUITE functional.

What I meant was to say that there's no reason (if you remove the religious issue) for people to get married (especially young) unless they want to raise kids (either immediately or eventually). No LOGICAL reason, anyway.

As far as "older" (30+), I think marriage is an option that could be "fun" or provide some kind of cement for the relationship. I mean, I'd get married again, and I have no desire or plans to spawn again. I just like the idea of having a concubi . . . I mean a wife (Freudian slip . . . sorry).

Originally posted by D Durden:
However, it's more stable than if one of the parents was abusive in a SINGLE parent household.

I guess...

But now divorce is what? 54% or something. Kids or not, people seperate. I know many people (family, friends, etc.) that have seperated after having kids. My grandfather divorced my grandmother about 5-10 years ago. This was after 3 kids, who grew up and had their own kids. Times change, people change.

Agreed . . . heck, I'm divorced with a 2 year old. My marriage was shakey at best (and then ended mercifully by infidelity!).

I don't know that people change MORE than they ever had as opposed to there being more opportunities for a mid-life rennovation . . . you know?

I mean, say you live in small town America 30 years ago. If you're 30-40 and married with kids, you're pretty much out of the social circle, and you're doing EXACTLY what you're "supposed" to do . . . you know? Take a 30-40 year old now, and the opportunities to meet someone "new" and cheat are far greater. Also, the culture now is geared around immediate gratification instead of "family".

That's only one of the reasons families have a hard time staying together.

Marriage is just a way to legitimize two people having sex!

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If thinking for myself is a crime I plead guilty.

Originally posted by ChaoticThoughts:
I am wondering why marriage is "the goal"

I guess some people need the security that comes with it. When you're married you have to officially stay together. Silly though...

Personally I'd marry sooner rather than later to get a greencard and not be so dependent on american employers. I want to live and work in the US, and my girl wants to get married anyway, so I'd be 'legal' then, and not so dependent. So, to me, thats the main reason. Personally I wouldn't need to get married at all, werent it for the greencard. I don't need some silly official something to be monogamous and dedicated. But my girl is all for it. So I try to keep her happy and just accept that i'll have to go thru that shiz at some point...

My husband and I got married when I was 20 and he was 35. We had known eachother about a year and knew that we wanted to be together for the rest of our lives after about a month. My mom just about flipped. The main reason that we got married when we did was that we were both in the Army and had zero privacy in the barracks and couldn't get our own place without getting married first.

I will say that if you have been together for several years and don't want kids, stay single if it is working for you. Just be aware that with the law the way it is, you could be putting your partner in a bad position if something were to happen to you.

Europe uses a "partner" system. You don't HAVE to get married. If you are commited to eachother, you can have 'partner' status that makes you eligable for insurance and such without the permanence and religious aspects associated with marriage.

Will I get married? yes. Will I get married only once? yes. Have I had sex? yes. Have I had sex with more than one person? no. There is more to sex than a physical act. There is more to marriage than sex. This cholumn of the forum starts out with "Relationships." Too many people just take sex as sex, not as part of a relationship. That, in my view, is wrong and completly disgusting. But everything is covered in this thread. If you want more of the physical end go to the Everything Forum. :)

John

Originally posted by ISUPonyBoy
Too many people just take sex as sex, not as part of a relationship. That, in my view, is wrong and completly disgusting.
That's where we differ. I think it's right and completely awesome. :) Yeah, sex is better when you really love the person, but you think I'm going to not have sex for years at a time while I'm trying to find my woman? Hell no.

is fo suckas that cant get no tail otherwise.




























j/k
i think marriage is a beautiful thang.
Marriage unfortunately these days is demeaned
marriage is serious and should not be taken as a joke.
like these darn 'reality shows' where people are gettin married.

Originally posted by igofast

That's where we differ. I think it's right and completely awesome. :) Yeah, sex is better when you really love the person, but you think I'm going to not have sex for years at a time while I'm trying to find my woman? Hell no.
It's your call. That just ain't my bag, baby. :p I couldn't even get it up for a women I didn't have strong feelings for.

John

btw: Robb I completely agree Brotha! These reality marriage shows are stupid and just serve to cheapen marriage.

Originally posted by robb sneak
i think marriage is a beautiful thang.
Marriage unfortunately these days is demeaned
marriage is serious and should not be taken as a joke.
like these darn 'reality shows' where people are gettin married.

Well said Robb! :p

My husband and I were in no rush to get married - we lived together for 5 years first. That was my fault, and if I could do it over - I wouldn't wait so long.

I was married once before. I met my ex when I was in 7th grade and we got married one month after I graduated high school. Like someone earlier said, when you get married that young - you grow apart and that's exactly what happened.

Originally posted by CatDancer

when you get married that young - you grow apart and that's exactly what happened.



how about if ya have been out of H.S. for 6 years now and you are 24?

..is that 'young' and will equival fialure?

Originally posted by robb sneak




how about if ya have been out of H.S. for 6 years now and you are 24?

..is that 'young' and will equival fialure?

I don't think that's too young, but 18 was definitely too young for me.

Originally posted by CatDancer


I don't think that's too young, but 18 was definitely too young for me.

good :p

there is this girl ive been really good for.

she is slight bit_h,..
i figure maybe she will meelow out as she gets older.

ya think thats true?

Originally posted by robb sneak


good :p

there is this girl ive been really good for.

she is slight bit_h,..
i figure maybe she will meelow out as she gets older.

ya think thats true?

Well, most women have some b*tch in them. I know I do.

You could talk about it with her, but I wouldn't get married thinking someone will change in the future.

I believe that I will get married on day, that won't be the day when I want a different tax return, or the day that I want kids (if that day ever comes,) or the day that I want to have someone take my last name. It will be the day that I have found the person that I want to scream at the top of my lungs that I'm in love with, but want to keep my voice. I believe that marriage is just an easier way to say "I've found the person that I want to spend the rest of my life with, the person who is my soulmate, and who is my bestfriend. A love that crosses over beyond the words that human languages could spend forever trying to combine and evolve and never come close to explaining the way that we feel about each other."

The ring to me says that without deafing everyone all the time, but then again most people don't think of marriage that way. Maybe I'm the weird one, but I'd rather think that I'm unique and convinced.

Originally posted by Manu
I don't get it when I hear people that are 18-22 getting married. it scares me to death!

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Manu Narayan YEAH!!!!!!!! Wait until 30 or 35 or even 40...lol

Originally posted by robb sneak
she is slight bit_h,..
i figure maybe she will meelow out as she gets older.
I think this is the first serious response I've ever made to robb.

Too many people do this. People will not get better. If you can't live with them for the rest of your life the way they are now, don't assume they'll change. Yes people do change, but 99% of the time *******s keep being *******s, and bitches keep being bitches.

Hmmm...I've never met an * let alone ******* of them.

(Looks in mirror)

Oh........yeah.......that.........*wanders off*

it seems like marriage these days is so trivial.... like it's taken for granted in so many situations. it's a special thing, to be bonded to somebody legally, but isn't it more special to be bonded to them in LOVE? So many people get divorced, breaking up their families because of differences that could have been forseen with a little insight instead of blind, passionate hormonal romance. Why get married if legality doesn't matter? maybe marriage is becoming the trend of the non-commital. maybe not. just an observation. Like... I read a quote in a magazine today that said "in the future, the poor will eat fast food while the rich eat organic." we're in a transition phase, trends come and go and shift, like history repeating itself again and again. Plus in my case.... I'm not religious and I don't want to be married under some godly power or whatever.... that's not my thing. two people should be married under love and love that stays forever, not some little tryst... some stand of excitement due to a few redeeming qualities in another person... it just seems wrong
~me

Ah... marriage. I look forward to it. Not just being with the one gal, but the whole sheebang... having children 'n' grandchildren (I absolutely adore kids)... surrounding yourself with people you love and who love you in kind. I've already gotten all the casual sex outta my system. I'm not quite ready for marriage yet, but when next I dive back into the dating scene, I'll be actively lookin' for a keeper. Watch out, ladies! ;)

Jay, you were 20 and he was 35? WOW! He is literally old enough to be your father! I am 36 and could NEVER imagine screwing a 19-21 year old. Aside from being the stuff that fantisies are made of, that would just feel wrong to me. Its MAJOR cradle robbing not to mention that you are a full generaltion apart! What do you even have in common other than the army??? :confused:

He and I have a lot in common. For one thing, I am mature for my age and don't behave or think like a 24 year old (my current age) My husband on the other hand never lost his childlike sense of wonder. Not that he was childish, far from it. We enjoy the difference in ages that affect our point of view. In a lot of ways it makes things a lot more interesting.

We both enjoy many types of music including 60s 70s and 80s styles and classical which is timeless. I grew up listening to oldies courtesy my parents so I enjoy them too. We both love museums, traveling, new experiences, furthuring our education, and expanding our horizons.

I get someone who has already made his mistakes and learned from them so I dont' make the same ones, and he gets a lusty young woman who can't get enough of him. Seem fair to me ;)

I got married because I found the woman who I loved the most. She was beautiful and she loved me. It seemed so perfect it was like a dream come true. At the time we married I did not know her all that well. She was exotic (she was from Europe), she loved sex and so did I so what more reason did I need.

Well 10 years later I am divorced and bitter and paying out my arse in child support.

I really think marriage is about exploitation. Two people searching for a perfect world and ending up with nothing.

Yes, I am very bitter.

Originally posted by Criminal
I got married because I found the woman who I loved the most. She was beautiful and she loved me. It seemed so perfect it was like a dream come true. At the time we married I did not know her all that well. She was exotic (she was from Europe), she loved sex and so did I so what more reason did I need.

Well 10 years later I am divorced and bitter and paying out my arse in child support.

I really think marriage is about exploitation. Two people searching for a perfect world and ending up with nothing.

Yes, I am very bitter.

criminal my brother

...my GOD..

you leave me with no hope. :(

I really dont ever want to make that mistake.

i mean,..
how does somebody ever get over a 10 year marriage.?

are ya still hurt?,.. can you ever love again?

Originally posted by Jay13


I get someone who has already made his mistakes and learned from them so I dont' make the same ones, and he gets a lusty young woman who can't get enough of him. Seem fair to me ;)

well if you're happy then I'M happy for you. ;)

it sounds like you are really into eachother and that you have
a good relationship.
i would cherrish that and im sure you do.


now then,.. :p

about finding me a 'lusty young woman who cant get enough. :D

Originally posted by robb sneak

i mean,..
how does somebody ever get over a 10 year marriage.?

are ya still hurt?,.. can you ever love again?
I thank you my brother.

I am not hurt anymore but I am no longer the same person ether. I am mean and cynical a lot of the time.

Yes I can love again and in fact have fallen in love but I will have to take a long time and really think it over before I take another walk down the aisle.