Well its true, we now have an official postition of Homeland Security on the Cabinet. A bill that will combine many governmental deparntments into one, the Office of Homeland Sucurity. The office will hopefully have a big bugget, sothat it can do wat its meant to do, and hopefully the bill will have what it should in it. Near the end of the debate on this bill it was brought up that some of the sections of it should not be in it, ones that would benift big buisness. These parts of the bill were put in by 'special interest' groups that, we all agree should not be in there. Thanks to some Moderate Republicans, we will be able to get rid of at least soem of those 'special interest' parts and make this a good bill.

Im a Democrat, and i like this bill. I applaud those who fought for it, in its pure form. Thank You for making our country safer. But now lets get on to the important stuff, health care, education, and our crumbling economy.

Let me preface what I am saying by saying I have not read hte bill in its entirity...

But this doesn't really 'solve' anything. This doesn't address some fundamental issues in leadership and how superiors respond to field agents.

This doesn't INTRINSICALLY help interagency communication...

And now you likely never will read it in its entirety, for disclosing the boundaries of the Homeland Security could be seen as a "breach of national security" and is thus protected from being viewed by the press/public.

[/hypothetical situation]

Freedom of the press, huh? Tell that to the White House.

Now the Imperial Federal Government is going to gain access to virtually every bit of electronic data there is about you. This means everything ? from airline tickets to grocery purchases to magazine subscriptions to deposit records to credit card purchases to association memberships. All of it.

Some criticism has been leveled against Attorney General John Ashcroft for his support of this ?Total Information Awareness? program. His response? Well, Ashcroft says ?I think the kinds of technology that can sell soap in America should be available to help secure the people of America.?

OK, Mr. Attorney General, since you don?t seem to be bright enough to noodle this one out on your own, let me try to help you.

Yes, some of the local grocery stores do keep electronic records of who buys what type of soap. Yes, these grocery stores will make this information available to people who sell soap, and yes ? the people who sell soap might send some marketing materials to the people who buy soap. Nice and clean. But, Mr. Attorney General, guess what? The people who sell the soap are not permitted under our system of laws to pick up guns and force us to buy their product. They can inform and they can encourage. They can offer deals, rebates, prizes and rewards. They can tell us how good we will smell and how those nasty little bacteria will crawl off and die if we just use their stuff. But they cannot use force against us, and they cannot punish, fine or jail us for passing their product by on the shelf.

You?ve been around for a while, Mr. Attorney General. Can?t you recognize the difference between a private retailer gathering information about customers and a government gathering information about subjects?

Wounder if former stasi officers will be recruited like they did the gestopo after WWII

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/kathleenparker/kp20021120.shtml

"Unfortunately, Americans correctly fearful of terrorist attacks (they're coming any day now, we're constantly told), are complacently willing to surrender all manner of personal freedoms in order to be safe. Law-abiding citizens, after all, have nothing to fear. The government is after the bad guys and we have to give up a little personal freedom in the process of being safe, right?

All together now: Not no but, HELL NO!

So far this poll reflects every other poll I have ever seen on the national scale, yet the populace stands for it.

For maybe the only time [ever] in my life I agree with CYLLON.

None of this bill would have stopped 9-11,nor will it stop any future attacks.

No,Asscroft has no buisness going into my bank or library records [without a warrent] .

And Bush will appoint judges [that the Republican congress will approve] that will rubber stamp evrything he and Asscroft want.

I might add,I don't think he'll do it immdeately,I think he'll treat us like the frog in the pan of scalding water.

Meaning,if you throw the frog in a pan of scalding hot water,he'll jump out,but if you put him in a pan odf cold water and gradually turn up the heat,he won't notice and will boil to death.

Gradually turning up the heat is the way Hitler did it,I think it's the way Bush and Asscroft will do it as well.

I'm with you TT, and Cyllon, on this. It's weird, saying I agree with CYLLON...

Sadly, I think it will take another attack to prove this theory right. God I hope that doesn't happen. I would love to be right without having another loss of life. :|

We all agree? What the hell is this place coming too?

Wait, 86... it gets better....













Even I agree with TT, and the rest of you...











Will wonders never cease?:eek:

Originally posted by Truth Teller
None of this bill would have stopped 9-11,nor will it stop any future attacks.



I agree





it is sad really, TSA has done nothing but **** up our airport, causing allkinds of bull**** changes. They have pissed me off on a few occasions to the extent of them telling ME what to do "this is my checkpoint" response "this is MY AIRPORT" **** off TSA

there are alot of the screeners that were with the old company.. wtf? not much change is it?

ok, rant off

I would agree that its a bunch of nonsense. Its all somthing made to make us feel more secure. In reality you cant do anything to protect your self. Any idiot can get their hands on a fuel truck and crash it into a crowded building. It has the same effect as crashing and airplane into a building.

Where did this bipartisan unity come from?

I'm not allowed to agree with any of you!:D

How is it that all of our vastly different understandings of freedom are all attacked by a single bill?

I'm mildly impressed by this occasion.

Justin

Add me to the list..


What is going on around here??:D

Amazing, we can agree to be against the man :)

Kraw-

I do not think the TSA (or at least REQUIREMENTS for screens enforced by the feds) is a bad idea, but its all about implementation.

Add another to the list guys. I'll bet hell is running without heat today.

I think Im going to stuff my money under my mattress now...
And stop buying stuff with my debit card and just buy everything in cash!

Hell isn't the only place without heat today, the damned steam tunnels on campus broke and my dorm (as well as most other buildings around my dorm) are running cold. Brrr.

Oh, yeah, and I'm pretty impressed that we can all agree too. Just goes to show that not all Americans are willing to trade their civil liberties for what we all consider to be the illusion of security.

...and now, off to class! :D

uhh... hate to break the community spirit... but what actually IS the homeland security bill?

Cynic,

Its a WHOOOOOLE lotta nothing.

Originally posted by Brian
Add another to the list guys. I'll bet hell is running without heat today.

LOL.

Originally posted by Cynic
uhh... hate to break the community spirit... but what actually IS the homeland security bill? It basically gives the government the right to incarcerate a person without benefit of due process, speedy trial, unlawful search and seizure, etc.. etc.. simply because the head of the Homeland Gestapo decides you are a terrorist. It also has a provision allowing the goverment to access ALL your electronic info, from grocer's lists, to bank accounts, and everything in between... next thing you know, some sort of biometric chip will have to be surgically implanted at birth...etc...


It's just a bad thing. It's been begun with good intentions, but somewhere along the line has managed to circumvent almost every section of Constitutional law. I'm against it.

Originally posted by QtrHrsmn
It basically gives the government the right to incarcerate a person without benefit of due process, speedy trial, unlawful search and seizure, etc.. etc.. simply because the head of the Homeland Gestapo decides you are a terrorist. It also has a provision allowing the goverment to access ALL your electronic info, from grocer's lists, to bank accounts, and everything in between... next thing you know, some sort of biometric chip will have to be surgically implanted at birth...etc...


It's just a bad thing. It's been begun with good intentions, but somewhere along the line has managed to circumvent almost every section of Constitutional law. I'm against it.

Amen!

Theoretically, it has a "sunset clause" stating that it will become null and void after a certain amount of time, but I think we can all agree that trying to take away the "power" people will have gotten used to using against Americans for so long will work about as well as trying to deflect a bullet with a fart.

Originally posted by Stage Monster
about as well as trying to deflect a bullet with a fart. Obviously you've never smelled MY farts...:D

Originally posted by Stage Monster
Theoretically, it has a "sunset clause" stating that it will become null and void after a certain amount of time, but I think we can all agree that trying to take away the "power" people will have gotten used to using against Americans for so long will work about as well as trying to deflect a bullet with a fart.



From what I've heard the worst parts of all these new bills will not sunset.

Originally posted by QtrHrsmn It's just a bad thing. It's been begun with good intentions, but somewhere along the line has managed to circumvent almost every section of Constitutional law. I'm against it. Amen, Comrade.;)

You know, this is supposed to be a "Political Debate" forum. How can we debate if we all agree?

...not that I'm complaining, mind you...:p

Hey, we all agree there's a problem. I guess we oughta resort to the traditional response; break out the AK47s and nailbombs, we'sa going to Washington!

...we then kill everyone wearing a suit in Washington, thus destroying our common enemy, and thus destroying the one thing causing bipartisan unity, and thus we start on each other. Ah, the glorious traditions of revolution :|