Its about to happen people and there is not a damm thing we can do to stop it. George W Hitler is going to get his war. His little place in history! Sadam raised his middle finger to Bush's ultimatim and the rubber stamp Iraqi Parlement agreed. I knew from the beginning this would happen. Sep 11 2001 was all that Bush needed to carry out his little vendetta against Husain.

I am saying my prayers. I fear that we will see young Americans comming home in body bags. Its 1990s all over again. American Blood for Iraqi Oil. Bombs falling on targets and landing on school. I only hope that when the American people wake up and see what a basturd we have as president and vote him out in 2004 it wont be too late.

American blood? Not much; a lot, lot more Iraqi blood. But who cares? They're the wrong colour... :|

What color are those secular Iraqis? Caucasian, slightly tanned? Are these the same Iraqis who claim secularism when accused to be supporters of Islamic terrorism, but invoke the name of Allah when forced to comply with a Security Council Resolution?

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Criminal
Its about to happen people and there is not a damm thing we can do to stop it. George W Hitler is going to get his war. His little place in history! Sadam raised his middle finger to Bush's ultimatim and the rubber stamp Iraqi Parlement agreed. I knew from the beginning this would happen. Sep 11 2001 was all that Bush needed to carry out his little vendetta against Husain.

I am saying my prayers. I fear that we will see young Americans comming home in body bags. Its 1990s all over again. American Blood for Iraqi Oil. Bombs falling on targets and landing on school. I only hope that when the American people wake up and see what a basturd we have as president and vote him out in 2004 it wont be too late. :rolleyes:

http://members.aol.com/qtrhrsmn/images/tuttut.gif


http://members.aol.com/qtrhrsmn/images/caution.jpg

LOL @ QTR

maybe your recollection of the gulf war is a little differnet than mine.
I remember people like you giving us all these doomsday scenarios about all the americans that would be comming home in body bags, and the fighting prowess of "Elite Republican Guard"

And then I just remember us pounding the crap outta them, and not knowing how to handle the number of iraqi soldiers who were surrendering to us.

Once again Criminal.. we will kick thier ass. Probably worse this time.
Hopefully Saddam will be killed off and we can install a new Govt. which might be more friendly to us and the region.
And if our oil prices go down as an added benfit, that's great too.. the whole American economy will be improved as a result.
Sounds like a good plan to me.

Originally posted by RightWingZealot
... and not knowing how to handle the number of iraqi soldiers who were surrendering to us.


Not to mention the ones that surrendered to our Reporters. THAT was hysterical.

Originally posted by Criminal
Its about to happen people and there is not a damm thing we can do to stop it. George W Hitler is going to get his war. His little place in history! Sadam raised his middle finger to Bush's ultimatim and the rubber stamp Iraqi Parlement agreed. I knew from the beginning this would happen. Sep 11 2001 was all that Bush needed to carry out his little vendetta against Husain.

I am saying my prayers. I fear that we will see young Americans comming home in body bags. Its 1990s all over again. American Blood for Iraqi Oil. Bombs falling on targets and landing on school. I only hope that when the American people wake up and see what a basturd we have as president and vote him out in 2004 it wont be too late.

Can you at least trot out something original rather than the typical alarmist, emotional hand-wringing?

Originally posted by Criminal
Its about to happen people and there is not a damm thing we can do to stop it. George W Hitler is going to get his war. His little place in history! Sadam raised his middle finger to Bush's ultimatim and the rubber stamp Iraqi Parlement agreed. I knew from the beginning this would happen. Sep 11 2001 was all that Bush needed to carry out his little vendetta against Husain.

I am saying my prayers. I fear that we will see young Americans comming home in body bags. Its 1990s all over again. American Blood for Iraqi Oil. Bombs falling on targets and landing on school. I only hope that when the American people wake up and see what a basturd we have as president and vote him out in 2004 it wont be too late.

This isn't like that Free the Felon Rally you were promoting is it? I mean do you at least know the littlest thing about Bush? As I recall, you knew nothing about the felon, what he was charged with etc? I'm hoping you are aware of what party he belongs to etc.?

Originally posted by TheFrog
LOL @ QTR :D

well, if I read correctly on the news, Saddam agreed to the UN resolution today. So, the war might be put on hold for a bit.



also, why is it ONLY the pres fault we are wanting war? I am sure he is not the only one in the Govt that wants it. Doesn't it take more then JUST the Pres to start a war?

Isn't this the same pres that people say is dumb and can't think? If so, then surely he didn't come up with the war idea


:rolleyes:


as Shogun would say, haters

:D

They should fill every screen and airwave, every magazine and news article with the horrors the world will face if it comes to war with Iraq.

Maybe we can get them to surrender without even dropping one bomb:cool:

Originally posted by Criminal
I am saying my prayers. I fear that we will see young Americans comming home in body bags. Its 1990s all over again. American Blood for Iraqi Oil. Bombs falling on targets and landing on school. I only hope that when the American people wake up and see what a basturd we have as president and vote him out in 2004 it wont be too late.

With respect, I think you need to look at this more broadly, I mean it can't be JUST about oil. That premise is illogical, and predictable. Of course this is not to say that oil doesn't have it's place in the debate.

But what will you say IF it turns out that Bush is right, and everything we have alledged is true? The weapons programs, all of it. What if we find out that the allegations of the U.S. starving Iraqi children is in fact, the anti-american propaganda that I currently tend to believe it is?

The one thing you can be sure of is that whatever military plan is in place will be a good one, and it's main focus will be overwhelming force, speed, and limitation of U.S. personnel and Iraqi civilian casualties. Moreover, it will be Iraq's intention to place as many civilians in harms way as possible. This war will be won or lost on television.


American blood? Not much; a lot, lot more Iraqi blood. But who cares? They're the wrong colour...

I don't agree with you very much Mr. Normal, but up until this statement you have continuously demonstrated good intelligence so what is up with this unfounded allegation?

Originally posted by RightWingZealot
maybe your recollection of the gulf war is a little differnet than mine.
I remember people like you giving us all these doomsday scenarios about all the americans that would be comming home in body bags, and the fighting prowess of "Elite Republican Guard"

And then I just remember us pounding the crap outta them, and not knowing how to handle the number of iraqi soldiers who were surrendering to us.

Once again Criminal.. we will kick thier ass. Probably worse this time.
Hopefully Saddam will be killed off and we can install a new Govt. which might be more friendly to us and the region.
And if our oil prices go down as an added benfit, that's great too.. the whole American economy will be improved as a result.
Sounds like a good plan to me.
I do not believe the US capacity to fight a conventional war with Iraq is quite the same as the America's ability to fight a long term guerilla war against the Iraqis. The Gulf war was a quick action which was completed in a very short time. If the US army does trounce Iraq and is forced to become an army of occupation do you think that the Iraqis will take this lying down? Dont underestimate Sadam. He may be tougher than we give him credit for.

My only concern is that this Saddam kid has something up his sleeve. Our intelligence is far from perfect, and in the age of ICBMs, well, I just hope he hasn't got one. My problems with Bush are the same as my problems with Clinton, i.e. the spin they put on things to get the sheep to comply gratefully. This is billed as a furthering of the War on Terror, which is a great blanket under which anyone with sufficient intellect could hide any number of agendas. It may be about oil, prestige, national security, or any combination of these and other issues, but a very large percentage of the American populace is swayed more by the romanticist idea that we're doing this solely to fight Evil.

Originally posted by Guitarophile
It may be about oil, prestige, national security, or any combination of these and other issues, but a very large percentage of the American populace is swayed more by the romanticist idea that we're doing this solely to fight Evil.

What evidence is there that suggests it is about oil? Or prestige? Or anything other than it's stated reasons?

Originally posted by Criminal If the US army does trounce Iraq and is forced to become an army of occupation do you think that the Iraqis will take this lying down?

The terrain of Iraq would not be very condusive to a guerilla war - the mountain areas are controlled by the Kurds and Iranians. Unlike Afgan, there aren't many places to hide..perhaps a reason there has been so little sucessful opposition to him from the population itself?

Besides, it would be the UN who occupies them...just look at Afgan.

Originally posted by 86Dude
I don't agree with you very much Mr. Normal, but up until this statement you have continuously demonstrated good intelligence so what is up with this unfounded allegation?

Let me put it this way: 10pm. Four exams, three days. Brain? Where are you? ;)

war about oil

it's all about oil


the pipelines


I just have to ask, how many of you all do NOT depend on oil in some way or another?

Originally posted by Kraw
war about oil

it's all about oil


the pipelines


I just have to ask, how many of you all do NOT depend on oil in some way or another?

So? It's not like there isn't other means of obtaining the oil we need. We even have scads of the stuff laying underground in our own country. It's not like Iraqi oil is going to make or break the U.S. economy.

Originally posted by DngrMse


What evidence is there that suggests it is about oil? Or prestige? Or anything other than it's stated reasons?

Just in case you misread my post, I did write "may" in there to indicate that I was by no means certain. I could provide loads and loads of surmisations, and even argue them out to be logical, but I have no evidence whatsoever that could prove anything I say beyond doubt. If you're getting all set up to bark up a tree, I assure you sir, I'm not up that one.

What I do here is promote discussion. That's what I love, and it's why I'm a member. I have all sorts of ideas and occassionally I like to voice them. That's what I did in that post which you quoted. I didn't give you any links to read, no statistics showing that people should rally behind my stance. I did no name-calling, unless you want to refer to my informal mention of "that Saddam kid". He probably wouldn't like it much if he read that, and I apologize to President Hussein or any of his supporters for treating you/him with less respect than you may feel you/he deserve(s).

If you have a personal or party-inspired reason to defend President Bush from any libel or inferred insult, I can accept that, and I'll read anything you have to say on the matter. I realize that it is common for many of you, Republican and Democrat alike, to feel that a word spoken against a politician registered as a member of your political party is a word spoken against you as a person, and that the offending individual is an opponent of yours to be bested. I ask that you consider me a special case excepted from this methodology. I pay for the service of being considered an American with tax dollars. I consider my debt to the nation paid in full every time I make a purchase and every time my income tax returns are processed. No party has my loyalty, nor will one ever, even should one be specifically created to match exactly my personal beliefs on how the nation's business should be run. It is my observation that when an individual associates with a group, that individual sacrifices aspects of him/herself in defense of the group. My personal identity is more dear to me than to be a part of something larger.

I don't want to see people die for the wrong reasons. If in the hearts of the decision-makers this war is about wealth or personal gain, I feel people will die for the wrong reasons. If an individual soldier dies because he/she is obligated to serve his/her nation, I feel that soldier has died for the wrong reason. If instead that soldier gave his/her life so that others could live better, that is an honorable sacrifice in my eyes.

86Dude:
I don't agree with you very much Mr. Normal, but up until this statement you have continuously demonstrated good intelligence so what is up with this unfounded allegation?

This from the guy that reffered to middle easterners as "Towel Heads"??

Just checking.

-Gomtuu

Originally posted by Cosmo


This isn't like that Free the Felon Rally you were promoting is it? I mean do you at least know the littlest thing about Bush? As I recall, you knew nothing about the felon, what he was charged with etc? I'm hoping you are aware of what party he belongs to etc.?
Felon=person without land.

The origin of this word begins in the middle ages. An individual who owns land was a lord, those who farm and are bound to the land was a serf or bondsman, those who farmed the lords land for a cost but were not bound were villians. Those without land and who did not live on the land were felons.

Only in later years did this term apply to criminal behavior.

Originally posted by Gomtuu_1
86Dude:


This from the guy that reffered to middle easterners as "Towel Heads"??

Just checking.

-Gomtuu

I got your towel right here John, LOL.

Originally posted by Criminal

Felon=person without land.

The origin of this word begins in the middle ages. An individual who owns land was a lord, those who farm and are bound to the land was a serf or bondsman, those who farmed the lords land for a cost but were not bound were villians. Those without land and who did not live on the land were felons.

Only in later years did this term apply to criminal behavior.

And your point is ?????????????????????????????????????

We are living in later years, were you confused as to the meaning of the word or in the manner I used it?

Criminal, You don't have anything to worry about, since You won't be doing any of the fighting. Although, I do notice that you seem to enjoy the fruits of My labor, like FREEDOM OF SPEECH, for example.
People like you should to be scared. People like me keep you free.

Originally posted by Cosmo


And your point is ?????????????????????????????????????

We are living in later years, were you confused as to the meaning of the word or in the manner I used it?
What is this Free Felon rally you asked about. For someone to be considered a felon they must be convicted in a court of law

Originally posted by Griff
Criminal, You don't have anything to worry about, since You won't be doing any of the fighting. Although, I do notice that you seem to enjoy the fruits of My labor, like FREEDOM OF SPEECH, for example.
People like you should to be scared. People like me keep you free.
The fruit of your labor?
What are you talking about?

I fight for freedom. I have been in protest marches against police brutality, fighting for peace and for economic justice. This is my fight. People like Bush and his Nazis are my enemy.

yes we know you like rallies and protests, especially for people you know nothing about. sounds like you are one of the sheeople CA keeps referring to.

QUE. "Where are you going Criminal?"

Ans. "To a protest rally!"

Que. "What for?"

Ans. "uh, I'm not sure, to get some guy out of jail"

Ques. "what's he in for?"

Ans. "I don't know"

Ques. "Is he in jail or out on bail?"

Ans. "I er ahhh, that is, I don't know"

Ques. "Why are you protesting then?"

Ans."because"

Originally posted by Griff
Criminal, You don't have anything to worry about, since You won't be doing any of the fighting. Although, I do notice that you seem to enjoy the fruits of My labor, like FREEDOM OF SPEECH, for example.
People like you should to be scared. People like me keep you free.

I personally would like to thank you for accepting the checks I send you every few weeks. I know that you'd gladly fight for free, but it really means a lot to me and my country.

Originally posted by Cosmo
yes we know you like rallies and protests, especially for people you know nothing about. sounds like you are one of the sheeople CA keeps referring to.

QUE. "Where are you going Criminal?"

Ans. "To a protest rally!"

Que. "What for?"

Ans. "uh, I'm not sure, to get some guy out of jail"


I dont know what it is you are talking about. The only time I ever protested about anything I knew in advance what it was about. Among the issues I went out and protested were the death penalty, sweatshops and police brutality. If you want I can tell you all about these issues in detail.

Originally posted by Criminal

I dont know what it is you are talking about. The only time I ever protested about anything I knew in advance what it was about. Among the issues I went out and protested were the death penalty, sweatshops and police brutality. If you want I can tell you all about these issues in detail.

FREE MATHEW LAMONT!
DEMONSTRATION AT TRIAL OUTSIDE COURTHOUSE , NOV 12!

When: Tuesday, NOV 12th

Where: 700 Civic Center Drive West , Santa Ana, CA 92701 (trial will be in court room C43)

Time: 9am


Mathew Lamont, a Long Beach anarchist who has been highly involved with groups such as 'Food Not Bombs' (an anti-military network that serves food as a protest to war and arms), 'COPWATCH' (an organization who monitors unlawful police activity), 'POWER' (an anti-authoritarian, anti-war/anti-racist group) has been in jail since April 20th, 2002.

On April 20th, Mathew Lamont was followed from the Long Beach Infoshoppe (R.E.A.C.H Center) by Long Beach Detectives where he was then pulled over in the city of La Habra and arrested.

He is being held in the Santa Ana Facility in Santa Ana, CA. and is being charged with 4 felony charges of possession of a destructive device, transporting of a destructive device, the use of a destructive device, and the possession of materials/instructions to make a destructive device.

Matt's bail has been placed at 100,000 dollars, and prosecutors have stated that they want to give him a minimum of 2 YEARS!

Matthews trial begins on Novemeber 12th at the Santa Ana Central Superior court on 700 Civic Center Drive. A demonstration will take place outside as we demand his release.

ENOUGH OF THE REPRESSION! FREE MATHEW LAMONT NOW!

DEMONSTRATE OUTSIDE COURTHOUSE, NOV 12, 9AM
700 CIVIC CENTER DRIVE W , SANTA ANA, CA 92701

[bold] This is what I was talking about[bold/]

Originally posted by Cosmo


FREE MATHEW LAMONT!
DEMONSTRATION AT TRIAL OUTSIDE COURTHOUSE , NOV 12!

When: Tuesday, NOV 12th

Where: 700 Civic Center Drive West , Santa Ana, CA 92701 (trial will be in court room C43)

Time: 9am


Mathew Lamont, a Long Beach anarchist who has been highly involved with groups such as 'Food Not Bombs' (an anti-military network that serves food as a protest to war and arms), 'COPWATCH' (an organization who monitors unlawful police activity), 'POWER' (an anti-authoritarian, anti-war/anti-racist group) has been in jail since April 20th, 2002.

On April 20th, Mathew Lamont was followed from the Long Beach Infoshoppe (R.E.A.C.H Center) by Long Beach Detectives where he was then pulled over in the city of La Habra and arrested.

He is being held in the Santa Ana Facility in Santa Ana, CA. and is being charged with 4 felony charges of possession of a destructive device, transporting of a destructive device, the use of a destructive device, and the possession of materials/instructions to make a destructive device.

Matt's bail has been placed at 100,000 dollars, and prosecutors have stated that they want to give him a minimum of 2 YEARS!

Matthews trial begins on Novemeber 12th at the Santa Ana Central Superior court on 700 Civic Center Drive. A demonstration will take place outside as we demand his release.

ENOUGH OF THE REPRESSION! FREE MATHEW LAMONT NOW!

DEMONSTRATE OUTSIDE COURTHOUSE, NOV 12, 9AM
700 CIVIC CENTER DRIVE W , SANTA ANA, CA 92701

[bold] This is what I was talking about[bold/]
I see. I did not attend that demonstration because I do not live in California. I only posted information on it.

I would also state that I do indeed know that he denies that the charges against him are valid.

Cosmo, if you are charged with something and if you can submit to me information pointing to your innocense I would demonstrate on your behalf as well.

This post was added by accident. Please ignore.

Pretty ironic, Guitar, that I pay as much, if not more, tax than you do, don'tcha think?
Until the present administration came in, a lot of my "co-workers" were on food stamps and lived in "housing areas" that had been condemned 15 years ago. If that's not gratitude, I'll kiss your ass.

Originally posted by Criminal

I see. I did not attend that demonstration because I do not live in California. I only posted information on it.

I would also state that I do indeed know that he denies that the charges against him are valid.

Cosmo, if you are charged with something and if you can submit to me information pointing to your innocense I would demonstrate on your behalf as well.

Isn't that what a trial is for? It's for the jury to decide, not criminals.