a woman has been sentenced to death by stoning-- i was watching this on Oprah today-- a million + letters have been sent to some foreign political dude who can keep this from happening.. it only takes a second---

www.Oprah.com it's the top story--click on the link and it will show a letter where all you have to do is fill in your name and click send...

you never know if this will keep that woman from being murdered--but putting in a minute of your time is definitely worth it here

That depends. Is this woman guilty of a crime in her country? I'm not saying stoning someone to death is right, but we've got to put this in perspective.

Yes, we must save this woman.
-Martin (sorry, i'm drunk)

Reckon it's cheaper than a hangin'. :D

Isn't adultery one of the "ten commandments"?
Isn't that interfering with another sovereign government?
I may not agree with it, but THEY allowed it to become a law.

It is a terrible thing, but who are we to get involved?

I might be more interested in signing if that letter did not include a sentence to abolish the death penalty. We have no right to dictate the laws in Nigeria, anymore than than they can dictate ours. While I diagree with the issue of stoning someone to death for adultery, unless the letter was changed I would not sign it.

you DO realize you can erase any part of the letter that you dont want to send right? YOu could erase all of the first 3 paragraphs and made the letter as simple as, dont stone this woman.


but it is odd that you would tell the country not to give HER the death penalty, and then say you wont sign a letter because it says the death penalty shouldnt be enforced.

And you said unless the letter was changed you would not sign. .. you can change it.

a woman has been sentenced to death by stoning-- i was watching this on Oprah today-- a million + letters have been sent to some foreign political dude who can keep this from happening.. it only takes a second---

Why should I care?

Originally posted by Frank


Why should I care?

i dont even know if that is worth answering... not because it isnt important-- because it definitely is.. but if i have to explain it to you-- then apparently.you donthave it in you to understand...

but anyways...readers digest version...

this is a human being-- that should be reason enough to want to help-- to keep another human being from hurting or umm...being killed in a very brutal way.

i do not condone adultery-- but i do not think it is a crime worthy of the dealth penalty---

also... some people may not have associated the idea that this wasn't a los angeles affair-- this woman was in another marriage where she was beaten and abused...and the man who fathered her child was supposed to marry her... she hasnt been allowed to have an education... she has other children... five i think...

and like Turtle_O said, you dont have to include the whole letter-- go ahead and write your own..

whatever... i just think its not only a pretty important cause..but it's also so easy that i think its worth a second of your time...

they are planning to bury this woman up to her neck, put a bag over her head and pummel her face and head with rocks until she dies....

now for those of you who are pro-deaht penalty.. that is a perfectly valid argument.. HOWEVER... even if you are all for lethally injecting USA criminals...are you going to defend keeping the death penalty in a country where people kill their children if they are raped to defend their honor?(and are unpunished for that..)... or a country where men kill their wives in honor killings and aren't even slapped on the wrist...

i think it is justified to fight the death penalty all together in that letter--- if these people work thisway do you really think they are competent/responsible enough to carry out the death penalty in a just manner?

Bon, he has his own causes to fight, and he has a hard time accepting the fact that F-ckd up sh!t happens everywhere, not just in south africa.

Originally posted by QtrHrsmn
Isn't adultery one of the "ten commandments"?
Isn't that interfering with another sovereign government?
I may not agree with it, but THEY allowed it to become a law.

yes it certainly is.
Isn't lying one of the ten commandments?
isnt coveting (wanting something that someone else has?)
have you ever slipped up and done one of those things?

if they are this incompetent...dont you think someone should interfere?

Originally posted by Krissmarie
It is a terrible thing, but who are we to get involved?

it's a human community, just the fact that i want to treat others the way i would like to be treated, decrees that i should show compassion and mercy to other women who werent as fortunate as me to be born in a different country. (it's almost like it's just a circumstance of fate that has put me HERE and her there, and i must respect that by showing sympathy for others.)

i dont even know if that is worth answering... not because it isnt important-- because it definitely is.. but if i have to explain it to you-- then apparently.you donthave it in you to understand...

The world does not gives a damn about the 1000+ Boer farmers slaughtered off in South Africa. So I suppose the world does not have it in them either?

this is a human being-- that should be reason enough to want to help-- to keep another human being from hurting or umm...being killed in a very brutal way.

Tell that to the UN in regards to the Zimbabwean white woman who had 15 bullets put into her body or the Boer farmer who had the top of his head axed off by Bantu invaders.

Sorry Bonnie. But to me people only seem to give a damn if the victim is of a certain...kind shall I say.

Since I am "off-topic" I will leave the thread. But I just wanted to get that off my chest.

Oprah's episode was about women, and the fact that they are as worthy as a SHOE.

(it is NOT always about race.)

(and they werent talking about the UN and such like that, they were talking to real women that interview other women, and help other women in these communities, the BIG organizations are about politics, they cant do too much to help the smaller horrible things that happen everywhere.)

Originally posted by Frank


The world does not gives a damn about the 1000+ Boer farmers slaughtered off in South Africa. So I suppose the world does not have it in them either?



Tell that to the UN in regards to the Zimbabwean white woman who had 15 bullets put into her body or the Boer farmer who had the top of his head axed off by Bantu invaders.

Sorry Bonnie. But to me people only seem to give a damn if the victim is of a certain...kind shall I say.

I'm sorry you feel that way, Frank.

However, if you think like that "the WORLD does not give a damn about this...blah blah blah" then i feel really bad for you.

i respect the fact that you feel passionate about people in certain areas and it bothers you that THose problems have not been addressed in a fair way, or have not been responded to...

however... that adds to my argument that you SHOULD fight for things that you can. You have to start somewhere

AND if you really want to spout out about unfair happenings.. i'm sure plenty of people could join you.. plenty of SH**** things happen in the USA too... I mean, did you catch the thread a year back about the parents who beath their 12 year old to death? -- do you know how often that happens? do you know what the rape and abuse statistics look like for THIS country and how little the government does about that-- or even for your own country... a lot of issues go neglected...

here you have the small, but distinct window of opportunity to do the right thing

or else you can just worry about what "people" in general give a damn about--- yeah, that's the way to be a good member of society

:bs:

turtle_o wrote on Today 04:45 PM:

It's not about us trying to be a strongarm and just tell another country what to do (it's about humanity and women) It's about making equal kinds of humanity in the world, and putting other countries in check when for some reason they go whack,

How is that consistent? You are contradicting yourself here. You don't want us to go in and strong arm them, just go in and tell them it's not nice to do things we don't like.

So what would you have the U.S. do? Go in their and strong-arm them into changing their laws because we don't like them? We haven't got that right. This woman knew when she did it, that it was against the laws of her state. As far as I know there are many countries that still employ this as a method of punishment for adultery, and while I don't agree with it, there's not much that can be done to change it. Do you really think that anyone is going to give a rat's ass about what us americans think?
I read that letter and pretty much believe that it's creator is trying to sneak in more of their personal beliefs besides the issue of stoning as a punishment. For that reason, no I would not sign it

If that is their culture, who are we to interfere and say it is wrong. Doesn't that require a value judgement?

Originally posted by BonnieBon
here you have the small, but distinct window of opportunity to do the right thing And just who are you to decide that it is the "right" thing? Was she not judged by a court of law? Was she not convicted? If she was convicted, does that not mean she is subject to the punishment under their law? Seems to me, that yet again, people want to have their cake and eat it, too. You can't have it both ways. EITHER there has to be a system of laws, with exemptions for no one (no one is above the law) or there has to be anarchy.

On the one hand, you want the U.S. to stay out of Iraq, Saudi, Israel, etc... over the possible deaths of millions, but you want them to go into Nigeria over the death of a single CONVICT?

Originally posted by turtle_o
Oprah's episode was about women, and the fact that they are as worthy as a SHOE.

(it is NOT always about race.)

(and they werent talking about the UN and such like that, they were talking to real women that interview other women, and help other women in these communities, the BIG organizations are about politics, they cant do too much to help the smaller horrible things that happen everywhere.) C'mon, gimme a break. Oprah's episode was about ratings. She could give a shit less about a woman 12,000 miles away, in a country she probably can't pronounce without a phonetic cue card. If she was so keen on the issue, why hasn't she tried to use her money and influence to sway them herself? Why bother with a chain letter thing? And Amnesty International... what a joke. I wouldn't advocate ANYTHING those pathetic liars did. I've SEEN what kind of people they are. In case you're wondering... in Somalia, and Ethiopia.

Originally posted by BonnieBon


yes it certainly is.
Isn't lying one of the ten commandments? no. Thou shalt not bear false witness AGAINST thy neighbor... in other words, don't tell the cops he's a drug dealer for selling AMWAY.
isnt coveting (wanting something that someone else has?) I have an excellent vocabulary, thank you, and yes; thou shalt not covet... thy neighbor's wife is a commandment, as well as: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house; neither shalt thou desire... his servant, nor his handmaiden, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is his.

have you ever slipped up and done one of those things? I have never commited adultery. I have never borne false witness against my neighbor. I have told lies in the past, but do not anymore.

if they are this incompetent...dont you think someone should interfere?


Who is to say that they are incompetant? You? I? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

BTW, for your personal clarification, here is one version of the The Ten Commandments (http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~drzymala/10comman.html)

Originally posted by Cosmo
If that is their culture, who are we to interfere and say it is wrong. Doesn't that require a value judgement?



OH MY !...


i agree with Cosmo




:eek:

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Pun intended? :|

Originally posted by Ponycar_302

Pun intended? :| yup....LOL

wasnt expecting my PM to be quoted on the discussion board.

(and i beleive in the golden rule, and to hear women asking for help, and talking about how their lives are so miserable, seeing them being treated horribly, just because they werent lucky enough to be born in a wester country, or with a Y chromosome, ... I'm not any better than that, it was just luck that put me here and not there, so why should i feel better than them, and feel that they arent worthy of my compassion? just my basic value for human life tells me they are worth more than they are being valued for.)

Scott-

Cosmo, I am fairly certain, was being sarcastic, as he feels (as you've so well proven) that people of today can't pass value judgements and as such its a problem.

That said, I agree, its the culture, just as Europe doens't agree with our death penalty and we may not agree about this, do we neccessarily have a place or mandate to step in?

That said, I am at least hoping for consistency. Track down the guy that impregnated her and stone him to death too.

Originally posted by Manu
Scott-

Cosmo, I am fairly certain, was being sarcastic, as he feels (as you've so well proven) that people of today can't pass value judgements and as such its a problem.

That said, I agree, its the culture, just as Europe doens't agree with our death penalty and we may not agree about this, do we neccessarily have a place or mandate to step in?

That said, I am at least hoping for consistency. Track down the guy that impregnated her and stone him to death too.

That's definitely a valid point--- they have a right to their culture--- and while it may not seem like it's our business--- in this situation and similar ones i feel like we should step in

it would be nice if they did it on their own..but they wont..
a major major problem there is that the woman are not (and are not allowed to be) educated... they cant read..they cant write.. and they cant tell their husbands not to beat the crap out of them every night... espeically since most of them are taught to think that is normal marriage behavior

the story of this womans life-- the one who will be stoned

she has 5 kids-- she had four children with the man she was arranged to marry. He was extremely abusive...
she met another man who promised to marry her... they slept together and the other guy ran off without taking any responsibility--- the woman was completely wrong to sleep aroiund but she was also trying to espcape her abusive marriage...

anyways.--there are a lot of factors here..but one reason we should step in is that people in the us are probably the only ones who can change circumstances such as these. The people in power in that counbtry are men who believe that the way they treat women is acceptable--and the women dont know better because they arent taught any better...

I signed the letter.

Turtle,
You got quoted because you contradicted yourself within that quote. You can't have it both ways..You can't say in one breath, that we should not strong-arm them, and then in the next, that we need to go over there and tell them that we are offended by their laws, that we think their lawa are whack. What becomes the difference? If there is one, it's so very fine, that they aren't likely to see it.

i didnt mean to go over as a gov't, but as one person, I feel i can object. I mean going as a social group, rather than as a country that is saying I am better than you is different. If i go socially, it makes it less about the differences in America v. Nigeria, and just makes its about people. Which is what it's about.. makes it more like a global community of humanity, where humans have basic rights. That makes it a bit different than my country saying, "in my country we do this, and so in your country you cant do that.", i'd rather it was more, "she is a human being and doesnt deserve this kind of punishment, just for the simple fact that she is a human, and because this punishment wouldnt be given to a man,"

Ya know what, i signed the letter.. but i think i feel more strongly about the woman that got burned with acid from her head to feet by her husband, or the one the got shot in the temple with her one month old baby sleeping right next to her, I'm just gonna shut up now.

Originally posted by turtle_o
,"

Ya know what, i signed the letter.. but i think i feel more strongly about the woman that got burned with acid from her head to feet by her husband, or the one the got shot in the temple with her one month old baby sleeping right next to her, I'm just gonna shut up now.

yeah-- i personally think this case is horrible--and i dont think this woman was sentenced justly-- but i have heard much worse cases--- especially where there was no crime involved-- liek the honor killings of women and children...

but i never heard about petitions for those cases that you can just add your name and click send for....

yeah what a way to help, no, to help those kinds of women you have to learn a different language and actually do some real work.

(these kinds of issues always make me ask myself, what do i want to do?)

i didnt mean to go over as a gov't, but as one person, I feel i can object. I mean going as a social group, rather than as a country that is saying I am better than you is different. If i go socially, it makes it less about the differences in America v. Nigeria, and just makes its about people. Which is what it's about.. makes it more like a global community of humanity, where humans have basic rights.

When do you plan to leave? I hear Lagos is nice this time of year. :p

*shrug*

Turtle,
Do you think, in a country you have already said has no respect for women and treats them like shoes, that their Prime Minister (or whoever leads Nigeria) is going to re-think his position because a bunch of American women go over there to "socially" discuss Nigerian law, and how they don't like it?
I doubt it. If he has no respect for his own, he's not likely to have any for nosey American women.

The thing is, the guy that got here pregnant KNEW he was guilty and used her as a plea bargain. She gets killed, he gets off free. It takes two, baby. If we're going to kill her for having sex out of wedlock, let's kill him. Bury him in the sand up to his head, and toss stones not quite large enough to kill him at his head until he has severe brain bruising and dies. I'm not saying that we should abolish something in this country if that is their belief. Nigeria has a surprisingly low amount of crime. Guess why? But make it equal. Don't punish the woman just because she is the one that was impregnated. Get the man as well.

But how will killing the man help the woman? She got pregnant, he didn't.

I thought this thread was going to about pot ..... I'm outahere. :)

My friend's dad is from nigeria when i told her about this story she said... ''oh, this lady has to be muslim" she was saying that the gov't is split up into 4 factions, and each one represents a different kind of religion, and 3/4 of those religions are christian. (catholic, or anglican, or some other form of protestant.)

she was just giving me a little perspective of how it is in nigeria. Psalms for billboards and all....

Hey I got no problem with the guy being punished either. What that article failed to mention however, was that the woman was still married at the time that this affair occurred. That's what made it an issue of adultery. Irregarless though, I think punishing them both would be just fine.

Originally posted by Cosmo
But how will killing the man help the woman? She got pregnant, he didn't.

It's not about getting her off the hook. An affair takes two people. This seems like it was a consensual affair, so punish both parties if you're going to punish at all. That guy slept with another's mans wife. Cut his balls off. :)

Originally posted by jillianjiggs
The thing is, the guy that got here pregnant KNEW he was guilty and used her as a plea bargain. She gets killed, he gets off free. It takes two, baby. If we're going to kill her for having sex out of wedlock, let's kill him. Bury him in the sand up to his head, and toss stones not quite large enough to kill him at his head until he has severe brain bruising and dies. I'm not saying that we should abolish something in this country if that is their belief. Nigeria has a surprisingly low amount of crime. Guess why? But make it equal. Don't punish the woman just because she is the one that was impregnated. Get the man as well.

The other half of this equation happily admitted his involvement. Then he was clued into the punishment for this crime. So, he changed his story, and 'swore' on the holy koran that he was not the father. He's off scott free.

Just another example of what awaits women the world over if militant islamic expansion continues.

Originally posted by jillianjiggs


Cut his balls off. :) OWWWWWWW!!!!!!! But I agree.