Should One Divorce Their Spouse With Alzheimer's ?

[Truth Teller]

Pat Robertson says so,and in this one instance I'm not sure he's 100% wrong:

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I think Robertson has a point when he says that people need companionship (though he should realize that people who aren't Bible-thumpers need companionship too).

I guess it depends on the individual,some people are strong enough to handle something like that,my guess is most people aren't that strong.

[Sparkly Mary]

How would that work, though? Those with advanced-stages of Alzheimer's aren't mentally competent to make legal decisions such as disolving a marriage.

[Lulu]

Typical Pat Robertson... self serving, narcissistic ass. I don't know why a man who claims himself to be so religious would say this. Clearly, he doesn't understand what marriage or sacrifice is about. Anyone who would leave their spouse because they have Alzheimer's is a truly horrible person. You don't abandon a child because they have an illness, likewise you don't abandon a spouse because they have Alzheimers. Life doesn't always work out the way you think it will. Alzheimer's is rough to deal with and they may need to be put in a nursing home at some point but that's what they mean by "for better or for worse."

[IFF]

i agree with Lulu.
"for better or for worse"
"in sickness and in health"

[jwreck]

The best option is to not get married in the first place.

In all seriousness though, once they get to a certain point there is no relationship, especially if they are in a home. If an alzheimer's pt doesn't see you all the time, they don't know who you are.

[Truth Teller]

How would that work, though? Those with advanced-stages of Alzheimer's aren't mentally competent to make legal decisions such as disolving a marriage.
Excellent point.:nice:

That's probaly why couples should draw legal papers on things like this in advance.



Typical Pat Robertson... self serving, narcissistic ass. I don't know why a man who claims himself to be so religious would say this. Clearly, he doesn't understand what marriage or sacrifice is about. Anyone who would leave their spouse because they have Alzheimer's is a truly horrible person. You don't abandon a child because they have an illness, likewise you don't abandon a spouse because they have Alzheimers. Life doesn't always work out the way you think it will. Alzheimer's is rough to deal with and they may need to be put in a nursing home at some point but that's what they mean by "for better or for worse."


i agree with Lulu.
"for better or for worse"
"in sickness and in health"
Emotionally, I agree with both of you,but it's easy to feel that way when one is fairly young and in good health.

If one is actually in that situation ,it can be another matter.


I mean if one's mind is gone ,then that person is gone,the body is just a meat suit.



The best option is to not get married in the first place.

True.:nice:




In all seriousness though, once they get to a certain point there is no relationship, especially if they are in a home. If an alzheimer's pt doesn't see you all the time, they don't know who you are.

And that's the key part of it.

If the body is injured ,the mind can still be there, but if the mind is gone,then what is there?

I applaud people like that elderly man in the video,it takes an exceptionally strong person to hang on like he does.

Most people aren't that strong though,and they're not bad people for not being that strong.

[DngrMse]

I guess it depends on the individual,some people are strong enough to handle something like that,my guess is most people aren't that strong.

Most people are that strong. Problem is, they're never pushed hard enough to realize it. There's always an easier way out. Pat, "The Hypocrite", Robertson did nothing more than stamp his seal of Christian Approval on what we already, as a society, take for granted.....there's always a social program out there somewhere to take the burden of responsibility off our shoulders. At least financially. Which is all anyone's whining about anyway. Once the distasteful matter of "filthy lucre" is dealt with, and the minimum federal standards of care are met, the sky's the limit. Do whatever turns you on. If the bitch is an anchor around your free wheeling neck, get a lawyer, and cut yourself free....someone else will come along to clean up you mess.

Welcome to America.

[GanjaFreebird]

I'm starting to like Pat Robertson more and more, and in fact I think he's a secret liberal who is out there to be a clown and make fun of social conservatism:). After all, he is known to say things that most right-wingers believe in deep inside but don't say it out loud for liberals to take advantage over it, and he always gives liberals something to laugh about:D. And also, he supports and donates money to poor people in African countries, Israel and opposes the war on drugs, in addition to making conservatives look like idiots, so he can't be all that bad in my book!!:nice:

[GanjaFreebird]

As far as Alzheimer's concerned, people who aren't in late stages of it, especially with today's medical treatments, can be just fine for the most part, and still do most of the things they used to do and even work for living.

The other day, I was giving an interview for an up-comming movie about Glen Campbell's last tour that he's doing now, mostly talking about his importance as a guitar player, but the last question I was asked "Did you think he could still tour perform very well when you found out he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's?" And I said "I didn't think so, I KNEW so, because music gives your brain power and slows down anything that destroys the brain, therefore, it's the last thing that one can forget how to do":).

And I was right, when I met Glen later on that day, he looked, acted and talked absolutely fine, he was one of the nicest people I've ever met and he still has a great range of memories from the old days with Elvis and The Beach Boys, which he was happy to talk about. One could never tell he is suffering from Alzheimer's or that anything is wrong, if he didn't announce that. And he can still play and sing pretty much as great as ever, even if he forgets a few lyrics here and there:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7fP0AEDbDs

So to answer the question, I guess it depends on how bad Alzheimer's actually affects the individual, because some people have it for over 10 years and are mostly fine, other than short-term memory loss, while others are affected much worse and it would be hard to keep a real marriage/relationship with somebody who is pretty much brain dead.

[Lulu]

Emotionally, I agree with both of you,but it's easy to feel that way when one is fairly young and in good health.

If one is actually in that situation ,it can be another matter.

I mean if one's mind is gone ,then that person is gone,the body is just a meat suit.

If the body is injured ,the mind can still be there, but if the mind is gone,then what is there?

I applaud people like that elderly man in the video,it takes an exceptionally strong person to hang on like he does.

Most people aren't that strong though,and they're not bad people for not being that strong.

Well why stop there then? If one's spouse gets cancer, and they become sickly thin and their hair falls out and they puke all day, why not leave them? If a spouse has a stroke and can't speak or walk, why not leave? If they have Parkinson's, and their tremors are so bad they can't feed or dress themselves, why not leave? I mean that isn't really what they signed on for when they married, is it?

I think most people in this situation are strong, they have to be. Alzheimer's comes and goes too, they have lucid moments and they have times they don't remember anyone. My friend is going through this - her mother has Alzheimer's and it is difficult for the whole family. Her father just had surgery and could have died... the first thing he said when he got out of the OR was he was worried about his wife. That's what love is and what marriage is. I can't imagine how disgusted my friend and her sisters would be if dad said "this is too much for me". But he loves her and he's a man with integrity.

[GanjaFreebird]

Well why stop there then? If one's spouse gets cancer, and they become sickly thin and their hair falls out and they puke all day, why not leave them? If a spouse has a stroke and can't speak or walk, why not leave? If they have Parkinson's, and their tremors are so bad they can't feed or dress themselves, why not leave? I mean that isn't really what they signed on for when they married, is it?


Let's get real here, people get divorces for MUCH less difficult reasons than that:rolleyes:. However, there's a difference between a person with a dissease who is still there mentally, and a person that's pretty much brain dead.


I think most people in this situation are strong, they have to be. Alzheimer's comes and goes too, they have lucid moments and they have times they don't remember anyone. My friend is going through this - her mother has Alzheimer's and it is difficult for the whole family. Her father just had surgery and could have died... the first thing he said when he got out of the OR was he was worried about his wife. That's what love is and what marriage is. I can't imagine how disgusted my friend and her sisters would be if dad said "this is too much for me". But he loves her and he's a man with integrity.

I wouldn't compare individual's situations. That would be turning serious situations into piss contests, which would really disrespect everybody that deals with such tragedies.

[Lulu]

Let's get real here, people get divorces for MUCH less difficult reasons than that:rolleyes:. However, there's a difference between a person with a dissease who is still there mentally, and a person that's pretty much brain dead.

I wouldn't compare individual's situations. That would be turning serious situations into piss contests, which would really disrespect everybody that deals with such tragedies.

No one is saying divorces don't happen for less difficult reasons. However, we are talking about Alzheimers which happens in a couple's later years and the question of should someone leave their spouse because they have Alzheimers. I gave an example I know of personally, I'm not comparing anything, but that situation is what many face. Anyhooo, Ganja, you have the maturity level of a 25 year living in LA who's having fun, getting some ass, and playing music... not sure what more you have to add here since it's a much more complex issue than getting poon on the weekend. :p

[GanjaFreebird]

No one is saying divorces don't happen for less difficult reasons. However, we are talking about Alzheimers which happens in a couple's later years and the question of should someone leave their spouse because they have Alzheimers.

They should always take care of the person, but as far being sexually/emotionally faithful, that's really a matter of how bad the dissease has damaged the person. If the person doesn't recognize anybody anymore, then obviously a divorce/cheating or whatever wouldn't hurt them, but they should still not be left on the street to die and should be taken care of until their day naturally comes.


I gave an example I know of personally, I'm not comparing anything, but that situation is what many face.

You're basically implied that if your friend can do it, then so should everybody else, while I say that it's arrogant to compare one situation to another, especially since Alzheimer's affects different individual differently.


Anyhooo, Ganja, you have the maturity level of a 25 year living in LA who's having fun, getting some ass, and playing music

Obviously my maturity level is much higher than yours, as I understand difficult situation in life and all sides of it, while you are acting like a narrow-minded 10 year old that can't understand why real life situations are not always like fairy tales and have those happy endings where the couple lives together happily ever after:p.

You can talk shit about my "rock star" lifestyle all you want, but while I do that, I also meet and help people with ALL KINDS of disabilities and I talk to the people that take care of them. I have enough first hand and second hand experience to know what kind of a hell people can go through when it comes to that issue. It's easy to sit in a middle-class home, watch t.v. and look down on people who are in such situations and don't always make the choice you want them to make (and say "how heartless it is of them":rolleyes:, but it's a whole another thing when you actually are involved with the disability cause...only then you can even begin to understand how hard it can get, which I do, and that's why I know what the fuck I'm talking about, while you think you do but you really don't:rolleyes:.


not sure what more you have to add here since it's a much more complex issue than getting poon on the weekend.

There you go again with your arrogance:nonono:. All you do is judge people and don't understand why can't things be as simple as you want them to be:rolleyes:. Instead of acting like a spoiled housewife, why don't you go out there and actually help people/families who deal with that type of stuff and make things easier for them...oh but no, it's much easier to sit on your ass and make judgements about people:p:rolleyes:. Even Pat Robertson gets it...well, at least sometimes:p.

[GanjaFreebird]

By the way, I would be completely fine with a wife or girlfriend moving on with their romantic life in any event of anything that causes me to be brain dead, as there's hardly any point to be romantically faithful to me if I'm not even mentally there at all, and I'd rather have the person find happiness and remember me the way I was, rather than emotionally destroy herself just to be "faithfull" to a virtually dead body.

[Lulu]

Ok Rock Star ;). I didn't realize you were so deep and that people would tell a guitarist all their life's troubles. Like I said, your maturity level is of a 25 year old free loving rock star, not that there's anything wrong with that, but it is what it is. You don't seem to have much experience in commitment and responsibility at this stage of your life. It's not to say some people wouldn't leave if their spouse got Alzheimers. Some do. But they shouldn't be surprised if everyone around them thinks they are a scum bag. When you leave someone after decades of marriage because it's too unpleasant, it says a great deal about character.

[GanjaFreebird]

Ok Rock Star . I didn't realize you were so deep and that people would tell a guitarist all their life's troubles.

Right, and now you do.


Like I said, your maturity level is of a 25 year old free loving rock star, not that there's anything wrong with that, but it is what it is.

You obviously don't know shit about me, but for starts, my music career seriously involves raising awareness for all kinds disability causes and I help disabled people almost daily, but you are welcome to make false and arrogant assumptions all you want:D.


You don't seem to have much experience in commitment and responsibility at this stage of your life.

Neither do you, and you're probably at least as old as my parents, so what:p. How are you any more "commited" or "responsible" than I am? Please explain:confused:. What have you ever done for anybody with disabilities?:confused:


It's not to say some people wouldn't leave if their spouse got Alzheimers. Some do. But they shouldn't be surprised if everyone around them thinks they are a scum bag.

Please define that. There's a big difference between stoping taking care of the person alltoghether and not being romantically commited to the person after he is no longer there mentally. Which one is it?:confused:


When you leave someone after decades of marriage because it's too unpleasant, it says a great deal about character.

People divorce after decades of marriage all the time. Welcome to the real world.

[garyd]

My Aunt Betty stayed with my Uncle Jack through every day of his alzheimers. If you aren't serious when you take those vows don't take them.

Marriage isn't or at least shouldn't be until things get a bit tough or I don't get my way as often as I want. If all you want is sex buy a hooker or hire a gigolo. The best sex in the world gets stale after a while.

[Truth Teller]

Most people are that strong. Problem is, they're never pushed hard enough to realize it. There's always an easier way out. Pat, "The Hypocrite", Robertson did nothing more than stamp his seal of Christian Approval on what we already, as a society, take for granted.....there's always a social program out there somewhere to take the burden of responsibility off our shoulders. At least financially. Which is all anyone's whining about anyway. Once the distasteful matter of "filthy lucre" is dealt with, and the minimum federal standards of care are met, the sky's the limit. Do whatever turns you on. If the bitch is an anchor around your free wheeling neck, get a lawyer, and cut yourself free....someone else will come along to clean up you mess.

Welcome to America.
It's so easy to be judgemental when it's not you.

Life is not a one size fits all proposition,we are all individuals with individual needs and circumstances.




As far as Alzheimer's concerned, people who aren't in late stages of it, especially with today's medical treatments, can be just fine for the most part, and still do most of the things they used to do and even work for living.

Well,this topic is about the late stages when the memory is gone.





The other day, I was giving an interview for an up-comming movie about Glen Campbell's last tour that he's doing now, mostly talking about his importance as a guitar player, but the last question I was asked "Did you think he could still tour perform very well when you found out he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's?" And I said "I didn't think so, I KNEW so, because music gives your brain power and slows down anything that destroys the brain, therefore, it's the last thing that one can forget how to do":).

Well, he can't remember his second marriage or his relationship with Tanya Tucker,one might argue he might not want to remember those things and that his Elvis and Beach Boys memories are what he'd like to remember.

But it's horrifying not to remember anything ,even the bad ,because it all is part of who we are.

And Glen Campbell is in early Alzhemer's ,that's why he's done his last stuido album and is making this tour now.





So to answer the question, I guess it depends on how bad Alzheimer's actually affects the individual, because some people have it for over 10 years and are mostly fine, other than short-term memory loss, while others are affected much worse and it would be hard to keep a real marriage/relationship with somebody who is pretty much brain dead.
Indeed,disease and the response to it is not the one size fits all propsition that some here are saying it is.



Well why stop there then? If one's spouse gets cancer, and they become sickly thin and their hair falls out and they puke all day, why not leave them? If a spouse has a stroke and can't speak or walk, why not leave? If they have Parkinson's, and their tremors are so bad they can't feed or dress themselves, why not leave? I mean that isn't really what they signed on for when they married, is it?

I think most people in this situation are strong, they have to be. Alzheimer's comes and goes too, they have lucid moments and they have times they don't remember anyone. My friend is going through this - her mother has Alzheimer's and it is difficult for the whole family. Her father just had surgery and could have died... the first thing he said when he got out of the OR was he was worried about his wife. That's what love is and what marriage is. I can't imagine how disgusted my friend and her sisters would be if dad said "this is too much for me". But he loves her and he's a man with integrity.
Yesterday ,I found out that a close relative of mine has a disease that may (or may not) be lung cancer.

All I know in his case is that TB has been ruled out ,other diseases have not been ruled out yet.

He was totally lucid,we had a good talk and watched some football.

Again,as long as you have your mind you are you,when you don't have your mind (and that is the situation we're discussing here) your body is basically a meat suit.






Anyhooo, Ganja, you have the maturity level of a 25 year living in LA who's having fun, getting some ass, and playing music... not sure what more you have to add here since it's a much more complex issue than getting poon on the weekend. :p

GF won't say it,but I will:

He has had family and friends with all sorts of illnesses.

He knows "what time it is" much better than most of his detractors do.



Ok Rock Star ;). I didn't realize you were so deep and that people would tell a guitarist all their life's troubles.
Ill friends and family don't only happen to over 25 people.

And life is not a one size fits all situation.

We are all individuals.



But they shouldn't be surprised if everyone around them thinks they are a scum bag.

I don't hang out with narrow-minded people like that.



When you leave someone after decades of marriage because it's too unpleasant, it says a great deal about character.

What about then needs of the caregiver ,who by this time has already done so much(in the cases we're talking about).



We all need companionship ,not only sexually but emotionally ,and even intellectually as well.

[garyd]

Again if you don't mean those vows don't take them.

[GanjaFreebird]

Again if you don't mean those vows don't take them.

Easier said than done. Besides, different people look differently at marriage anyways. For example, some people are all about open marriage/relationships, and that's their choice, so by "taking those vows", it's not always the traditional Christian type of thing, you know.

[86Dùde]

TT would definitely dump his wife. He's probably dumped 2 already.

[garyd]

Ganja and you thought I was talking aobut non christian vows precisely why? If marriage isn't going to be monogamous for either of you please tell me why you went to the trouble in the first place? Wedding gifts?

[GanjaFreebird]

Well,this topic is about the late stages when the memory is gone.




Right.


Well, he can't remember his second marriage or his relationship with Tanya Tucker,

Maybe he just doesn't care to talk about it, especially since the long-term memories are usually the last ones to go...either way, he seemed to be completely normal, and even if he doesn't remember certain parts of his life, he is FAR from brain dead and is still the same person more or less.


one might argue he might not want to remember those things and that his Elvis and Beach Boys memories are what he'd like to remember.


He sure loved talking about Elvis and how great he was, and the experience of working with him:).


But it's horrifying not to remember anything ,even the bad ,because it all is part of who we are.


Of course, but that's hardly unique for Alzheimer's victims, especially in the music business. Johnny Winter doesn't remember (or at least says he doesn't) playing at Woodstock AT ALL (and his manager tells people that interview him to not even mention anything about that), and of course, with older age, people's memory isn't what it used to be anyways, although there are always exceptions like Honeyboy Edwards.

I mean, remember how Frank Sinatra sometimes couldn't even remember "New York New York" without big screens with lyrics during his last 5 years of performing. And I just saw Chuck Berry in concert two days ago, while his playing and singing was excellent and he still puts on a GREAT show, duckwalk and all of that (which is amazing for 85 year old), but his memory clearly isn't what it used to be, as he performed "Promised Land" (a song that I've never heard him play live before in the last 11 years that I've been going to see him) 3 or 4 times that night:p. He still did it very well and I could listen to him play that same song another 10 times and still enjoy it, but clearly, he needs his bandmates to remind him of lyrics to some songs and to make sure that he hasn't already played it that night. But hey, it's still the same Chuck Berry and he still has the magic, make no mistake about it, and doesn't leave anybody disapointed which is why he got a 15 minute standing ovation after the last song with the whole theater screaming "We want Chuck!!":). In some ways, that may have been the best I've ever seen him perform, and I've seen him millions of times.

And same with Glen Campbell, if you watch the video I've posted, it's very clear that he's still got the magic too, even if his memory isn't what it used to be:D.


And Glen Campbell is in early Alzhemer's ,that's why he's done his last stuido album and is making this tour now.


According to people who work for him, he wants to make this tour as long as he possibly can, so if medical treatments slow down his dissease, he might be around performing much longer than just a few months.

[GanjaFreebird]

Ganja and you thought I was talking aobut non christian vows precisely why?

Because not every marriage is a traditional Christian marriage, not even in Jesusland:p.


If marriage isn't going to be monogamous for either of you please tell me why you went to the trouble in the first place? Wedding gifts?

Maybe because some people separate love and sex. You can be completely in love with each other, without wanting to be sexually monogamous. I know a lot of people like that:shrug:.

[Dick Tator]

Ganja and you thought I was talking aobut non christian vows precisely why? If marriage isn't going to be monogamous for either of you please tell me why you went to the trouble in the first place? Wedding gifts?

Are you scared that if your wife got some other dick she'd leave you? lol You're pretty insecure about your sexual ability apparently.

[GanjaFreebird]

GF won't say it,but I will:

He has had family and friends with all sorts of illnesses.

He knows "what time it is" much better than most of his detractors do.




Thank you.


Yesterday ,I found out that a close relative of mine has a disease that may (or may not) be lung cancer.

All I know in his case is that TB has been ruled out ,other diseases have not been ruled out yet.

He was totally lucid,we had a good talk and watched some football.



My prayers are with you and your relative.


Again,as long as you have your mind you are you,when you don't have your mind (and that is the situation we're discussing here) your body is basically a meat suit.



Very true.


Ill friends and family don't only happen to over 25 people.

And life is not a one size fits all situation.

We are all individuals.



:nice:


I don't hang out with narrow-minded people like that.




And neither do I.


What about then needs of the caregiver ,who by this time has already done so much(in the cases we're talking about).



We all need companionship ,not only sexually but emotionally ,and even intellectually as well.

Exactly!!

[Dick Tator]

Are you scared that if your wife got some other dick she'd leave you? lol You're pretty insecure about your sexual ability apparently.

And insecure about your marriage if you think it's based on solely on sex, I might add... :hmm:

[GanjaFreebird]

Are you scared that if your wife got some other dick she'd leave you? lol You're pretty insecure about your sexual ability apparently.

To be fair, it's ok not to want an open relationship as well, which doesn't just have to be a matter of insecurity. I'm into traditional relationships myself for several reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that, but there is also nothing wrong with wanting to have an open relationship:shrug:. Whatever makes the individuals happy works best:D.

[Dick Tator]

To be fair, it's ok not to want an open relationship as well, which doesn't just have to be a matter of insecurity. I'm into traditional relationships myself for several reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that, but there is also nothing wrong with wanting to have an open relationship:shrug:. Whatever makes the individuals happy works best:D.

Everyone has an open relationship in that almost every relationship has one person who cheated and EVERYONE considers cheating. All I know is that when my wife says she's going to her sister's while I'm at work, I know that's where she is going to. :shrug:

[Lulu]

I'd love to know this parallel universe where people aren't judged by their actions. For every 1 person that thinks it's ok to leave a spouse w/ Alzheimer's, there will 10 that judge. That's life. It's not to say the spouse might not find companionship somewhere else because they might and I think people would understand that. But abandoning someone because it's "too difficult" shows a lack of character. And from things I've read, Alzheimer's patients deteriorate rapidly when they have no one familiar to care for them or visit them. If a spouse deserts the Alzheimer's patient, it also puts all the responsibility on the children. How is that fair?

And if you don't think people are judged by their actions... both Newt and John Edwards will NEVER recover politically because they left their wives with cancer.

P.S. TT, there is a new Pfizer drug for lung cancer if that is indeed what he has... the person has to get a test to see if they have a genetic mutation and if they do, the results are promising.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-26/pfizer-wins-u-s-approval-for-tumor-fighting-medicine-to-treat-lung-cancer.html

[GanjaFreebird]

Everyone has an open relationship in that almost every relationship has one person who cheated and EVERYONE considers cheating. All I know is that when my wife says she's going to her sister's while I'm at work, I know that's where she is going to.

So you and your wife have an open relationship?

[GanjaFreebird]

I'd love to know this parallel universe where people aren't judged by their actions. For every 1 person that thinks it's ok to leave a spouse w/ Alzheimer's, there will 10 that judge.

For every asshole, there are 10 BIGGER assholes, so fuckin' what:shrug:.


That's life. It's not to say the spouse might not find companionship somewhere else because they might and I think people would understand that. But abandoning someone because it's "too difficult" shows a lack of character.

"abandoning" and romantically moving on are two different things. My friend's father suffers from a similar dissease that destroys both mental and physical health and makes it absolutely impossible to be in a real relationship, for many different reasons. Her mother has "divorced" him a long time ago and is married to a new man for decades, but even nowdays, she still takes care of her ex-husband, makes sure he's doing the best he can, and he still thinks they are together to this day, as she never told him since it wouldn't do any good at this point.

And yes, "too difficult" can be difficult enough, because people who suffer from brain damaging illnesses can turn violent, dangerous and all kinds of stuff, which isn't their fault of course, but still, people shouldn't be forced to go through this shit if they aren't strong enough.


And from things I've read, Alzheimer's patients deteriorate rapidly when they have no one familiar to care for them or visit them.

Right, and they should take care of them and visit them, but as far as a real romantic relationship is concerned, it's hardly possible.


If a spouse deserts the Alzheimer's patient, it also puts all the responsibility on the children. How is that fair?

See above.


And if you don't think people are judged by their actions... both Newt and John Edwards will NEVER recover politically because they left their wives with cancer.


It's not exactly what they did, but rather the way they did it. Also, cancer doesn't cause people to be brain dead, they are just physically ill, but still the same person though.

[Dick Tator]

So you and your wife have an open relationship?

More shut than open and more open than shut. :shrug:

[IFF]

Emotionally, I agree with both of you,but it's easy to feel that way when one is fairly young and in good health.

If one is actually in that situation ,it can be another matter.


I mean if one's mind is gone ,then that person is gone,the body is just a meat suit.



Unfortunately TT i've had some experience of dealing with people with alzheimars. In both cases, the mind was clear, not about the present time but about the past. In the cases i've experienced, while the present for the people was not at all cleared, they had a very pleasant memory of what happened in the past. I remember visitng one and she was reminiscing her sibling. she did think i was my father though.

[Truth Teller]

Again if you don't mean those vows don't take them.

People often write their own vows nowadays.

Just sayin'.

[Truth Teller]

TT would definitely dump his wife. He's probably dumped 2 already.
Yawn.





If marriage isn't going to be monogamous for either of you please tell me why you went to the trouble in the first place? Wedding gifts?
Most people get married for legal reasons like insurance,property rights .etc.






Maybe he just doesn't care to talk about it, especially since the long-term memories are usually the last ones to go

Yeah,but everyone is not effected the same way.

The only reason coulmnist Hugh Sidey found out about Ronald Regan's Alzhemier's was at Richard Nixon's funeral when Reagan started talking to Sidey about first working with Nixon in 1960.

Sidey then asked Reagan "What did you think when you first heard about Watergate?" and Reagan honestly had no idea what Watergate was,then Nancy Reagan told Sidey the truth and Sidey agreed to keep it secret until Regan himself was ready to make it public.


Of course, but that's hardly unique for Alzheimer's victims, especially in the music business. Johnny Winter doesn't remember (or at least says he doesn't) playing at Woodstock AT ALL (and his manager tells people that interview him to not even mention anything about that),

Does Johnny Winter have Alzheimer's?



Because not every marriage is a traditional Christian marriage, not even in Jesusland:p.

Ask Newt Gingrich.






Maybe because some people separate love and sex. You can be completely in love with each other, without wanting to be sexually monogamous. I know a lot of people like that:shrug:.
Me too.



Are you scared that if your wife got some other dick she'd leave you? lol You're pretty insecure about your sexual ability apparently.
:not:




My prayers are with you and your relative.

Thank you.



I'd love to know this parallel universe where people aren't judged by their actions. For every 1 person that thinks it's ok to leave a spouse w/ Alzheimer's, there will 10 that judge. That's life. It's not to say the spouse might not find companionship somewhere else because they might and I think people would understand that. But abandoning someone because it's "too difficult" shows a lack of character. And from things I've read, Alzheimer's patients deteriorate rapidly when they have no one familiar to care for them or visit them. If a spouse deserts the Alzheimer's patient, it also puts all the responsibility on the children. How is that fair?

On the other hand,what is fair for the caregiver too?




And if you don't think people are judged by their actions... both Newt and John Edwards will NEVER recover politically because they left their wives with cancer.

Newt was a Bible-thumping hypocrite,in the case of Edwards ,it wasn't the affair itself but his hubris and the cover up.

If Edwards had manned up from the start and fessed up I bet he'd be Attorney General now,and a great one.




P.S. TT, there is a new Pfizer drug for lung cancer if that is indeed what he has... the person has to get a test to see if they have a genetic mutation and if they do, the results are promising.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-26/pfizer-wins-u-s-approval-for-tumor-fighting-medicine-to-treat-lung-cancer.html

Thank you,I'll pass that on.

[garyd]

Do a will. It's easier to change than just ending a marriage. You can put anyone on your life insurance policy. You can give anyone power of attorney in case of emergencies. If that is why you are getting married you're an idiot.

[Truth Teller]

Do a will. It's easier to change than just ending a marriage. You can put anyone on your life insurance policy. You can give anyone power of attorney in case of emergencies. If that is why you are getting married you're an idiot.

In a ideal world maybe,but in real life it doesn't always work out that way.

Wills can be broken,or at the very least can be tied up in court for years and years.

I have one relative who works in insurance,this person had a couple as clients,they were married in every sense but legally,the only reason they weren't married legally was the guy's wife wouldn't give him a divorce because she was a Catholic.

The woman became terminally ill,her companion stuck by her side all the way,she left him everything in her will,after she died her son (who never once came to see her) got a judge to break the will, giving her son all of her estate and her companion nothing.

The only foolproof legal contract around things like that is marriage, and that is the actual reason the majority of people get married and that is the reason same-sex couples want the right to marry as well.

[garyd]

That is extremely rare and in such circumstance even marriage isn't fool proof. And you are right love isn't sex but real love would preclude you risking your health and that of your spouse for fifteen minutes of pleasure with some one else.

There are two types of love in the world. There is Godly love or complacent love, a love that is complete in the existence of its object, and beneficient love a love that is dependent on the actions of it's object. The latter can turn into hate when those actions are no longer performed. The former never does. The former is until death. The former places its object over and above all else.

[Truth Teller]

That is extremely rare

That doesn't mean shit if you're the one it happens to.

[garyd]

And it also isn't an excuse to be an idiot. As I said marriage isn't fool proof either. Especially in circumstances involving divorce and multiple progeny by differnt spouses.

[GanjaFreebird]

Does Johnny Winter have Alzheimer's?


No, it's probably the drugs and alcohol in his case.

[garyd]

Almost certainly ganja, booze and certain drugs tend to be hell on braincells. Hell look at Ozzie, dude acts like he's always on downers.

[berdache]

I'd have to say that if they entered their marriage via a 'christian church', they should be held to the stipulations set forth by that 'church handbook' concerning divorce (and subsequent re-marriage).

[Truth Teller]

That is extremely rare and in such circumstance even marriage isn't fool proof. And you are right love isn't sex but real love would preclude you risking your health and that of your spouse for fifteen minutes of pleasure with some one else.

There are two types of love in the world. There is Godly love or complacent love, a love that is complete in the existence of its object, and beneficient love a love that is dependent on the actions of it's object. The latter can turn into hate when those actions are no longer performed. The former never does. The former is until death. The former places its object over and above all else.


And it also isn't an excuse to be an idiot. As I said marriage isn't fool proof either. Especially in circumstances involving divorce and multiple progeny by differnt spouses.
Can you name me a case of a marriage contract that another party got broken in court?

I've never heard of one.



No, it's probably the drugs and alcohol in his case.
Whew,you scared me there.



I'd have to say that if they entered their marriage via a 'christian church', they should be held to the stipulations set forth by that 'church handbook' concerning divorce (and subsequent re-marriage).

Not all Christian churches are alike.

[GanjaFreebird]

Whew,you scared me there.


In fact, my good friends opened for Johnny Winter a few months ago and he is still an excellent performer and can still really play the guitar, and same is true to 85 year old Chuck Berry (he rocked so hard a few days ago that people were on their feet for 15 minutes yelling for him to come back and do one more after a good hour show...he left with a few hot groupies right away though, as usual, oh well, God bless him:p)...my point was that they have/had certain health issues and their memory isn't what it used to be from one reason or another, but that still doesn't prevent them from performing great and getting women:).

That's why I think and hope that Glen Campbell will also be able to play and sing and have a great relationship with his wife for a while, especially if the modern medicine slows his illness...he seemed to be in a very good shape physically and mentally for anybody his age, let alone who is suffering from Alzheimer's.

[garyd]

TT the best known such case would of course be Marshal vs marshall.

[queenlillian1962]

Got a friend who's Mother is going through this;stage 4. Her Brother and 78 year old father are taking care of her at home. The devotion of her father is touching. She doesn't recognize anybody really and has trouble doing the simplest of tasks.

I can understand someone going through this seeking companionship from another person as people with this disease can hang on for years not knowing really whats going on around them. I however would expect the spouse to be there for the sick person until the end. Basically if someone had an affair on a person with late stage alzheimers, I wouldn't blame them, but they need to stick by the spouse like they promised in there vows until the end.

[Arkady]

I know it would be hard to care for someone with the disease. My great aunt has it and she doesn't even know who we are anymore.

I can understand wanting to go elsewhere, but at the same time, if you promise to stay with someone until the day they die, through sickness and in health, you shouldn't violate those vows.

[Truth Teller]

TT the best known such case would of course be Marshal vs marshall.

I would argue that one exception proves the rule.

Marhsall v. Marshall is a very complicated legal case invovling all sorts of things including multiple marriages,children, state laws,and the husband getting lazy about legal matters.

I argue that this one exception is not the rule for at least 95% of all marriages out there,and in fact proves the rule.

If you don't get lazy with legalities or complicate your life ,then marriage is an unbreakbale contract ,that can't be said about anything else.

And if all else fails,you better call Saul:

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