Gaddafi's Daughters

[Truth Teller]

It turns out Gaddafi lied when he said Ronald Reagan killed his daughter Hanah:

http://www.gulfnews.com/news/region/libya/evidence-that-hana-gaddafi-s-1986-death-was-a-lie-1.859503

He has another daughter named Aisha who just gave birth in Algeria:


http://www.abcnews.go.com/blotter/gadhafi-daughter-aisha-gadhafi-birth-algeria-report/story?id=14410006

Maybe we can get a reality show called The Gaddafis that could put The Osbornes to shame.

Just sayin'. :shrug:

1UIsU-QZAvg

[Šñøü†ê®]

Folks notice how hypocritical neocons always have to have a boogeyman. Mr. Bin Laden, Mr. Saddam, Commander Gadaffi, the dude in charge of Iran, whoever the Algerian president is, Syria, etc. etc. These boogeymen are used by the necocons to take away your freedom and fulfill the objectives of PNAC. Notice too how the hypocritical neocons attack women while pretending to be upset about Laura Logan's adventures in the Middle East working for corporate MSM. :nonono:

[Truth Teller]

Folks notice how hypocritical neocons always have to have a boogeyman. Mr. Bin Laden, Mr. Saddam, Commander Gadaffi, the dude in charge of Iran, whoever the Algerian president is, Syria, etc. etc. These boogeymen are used by the necocons to take away your freedom and fulfill the objectives of PNAC.

:rofl:


Notice too how the hypocritical neocons attack women
I didn't attack Hana ,I said her dad lied about Reagan (whom I have no love for) killing her,because he did lie about it.

In fact ,I have sympathy for Hana ,she seems to be one of the few all right people from that family.

I didn't attack Aisha,in fact ,I think you and her ought to get married ,you deeply admire her father,and you'd fit in really well on the reality show,you'd really boost their ratings. :shrug:



while pretending to be upset about Laura Logan's adventures in the Middle East working for corporate MSM. :nonono:

Are you insinuating Lara Logan deserved what happend to her?:nonono:

[GanjaFreebird]

Gaddafi (although mostly Arab-Berber) is actually 1/4 ethnically Jewish on his mother's side, and has cousins who are Sephardic Jews living in Israel, therefore, if Snouter marries his daughter, his parents should approve of that!!:nice::nice:

[GanjaFreebird]

I didn't attack Aisha,in fact ,I think you and her ought to get married ,you deeply admire her father,and you'd fit in really well on the reality show,you'd really boost their ratings.

:rofl::jester:

[IFF]

further to what TT said, in the Irish Times last week (actually looking at various web pages, it seems the irish times were first with this according to articles from the telegraph, guardian and yahoo. they really need to brag more when they get breaking news. some papers here use the exclusive tag alot even when 3 other papers on the same day have the same article and the same exclusive tags on it), it had this article on Hana's supposed death


Hana’s death may be a myth to spark sympathy. She very much seems to have lived in the family compound, writes MARY FITZGERALD in Tripoli

FOR DECADES her name was invoked by Muammar Gadafy and his apologists as proof of his personal suffering as a result of the US bombing of his Tripoli compound in 1986.

After US aircraft struck the Bab al-Azizia complex on April 14th that year, in revenge for the bombing of the La Belle nightclub in Berlin by Libyan agents, the regime announced that an adopted infant daughter of Col Gadafy, named Hana, had died in the raid.

The news was carried on Libya’s radio, TV and print media, despite claims that Col Gadafy had moved his family to safety, having received prior warning of the strikes.

An American journalist at the time was shown the body of a baby and told it was Hana. Since then, Col Gadafy has repeatedly referred to her supposed death to bolster the notion that he had been a victim of western military aggression.

On the 20th anniversary of the US attack, the Libyan regime organised the “Hana Festival of Freedom and Peace” to commemorate the incident.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2011/0826/1224303001756.html

her supposed death had been used as propaganda by the Gadafy regime.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Are you insinuating Lara Logan deserved what happend to her?

I was pointing out your hypocrisy and the fact that you used and abused Laura Logan almost like an Egyptian as propaganda simply because doing so supports your AIPAC/PNAC/NEOCON objective of endless war to make a mess of countries that don't like zionism. :shrug:

[GanjaFreebird]

I was pointing out your hypocrisy and the fact that you used and abused Laura Logan almost like an Egyptian as propaganda

Snouter, if you want normal and sane people to stop looking down on Egyptian Arabs, you should encourage their society from acting like barbaric savages. Stopping the rape and sexual harrassment of innocent women would be a good start.


simply because doing so supports your AIPAC/PNAC/NEOCON objective of endless war to make a mess of countries that don't like zionism.

Then how can you explain TT opposing Mubarak and being very open minded about the revolution in Egypt, at least until the savages went wild and started raping everything in sight?:confused:

Again, I ALWAYS said "keep Mubarak, he ain't THAT bad for a Muslim Arab dictator and at least he knows how to control the beasts in his country", but TT actually was open minded about the "Arab spring"...not that I blame him, but obviously the barbarians let him and other liberals down, don't you agree?

[Šñøü†ê®]

Gongo, there are worse barbaric savages in the USA! :( The "revolution" in the Arab countries seems to be orchestrated and or manipulated by the NWO, and Teller supports the NWO! :shrug: But, I see you point about dictators being necessary sometimes since savages should not always have the right the vote! Now if you could apply that rationale to America, this country might turn around for the better! :p ;)

[GanjaFreebird]

Gongo, there are worse barbaric savages in the USA!

No there aren't:).


The "revolution" in the Arab countries seems to be orchestrated and or manipulated by the NWO, and Teller supports the NWO!

Well, I support strong pro-western dictators controlling the dogs in their countries, until their society decides to actually join humanity, which so far they haven't.


But, I see you point about dictators being necessary sometimes since savages should not always have the right the vote! Now if you could apply that rationale to America, this country might turn around for the better!

Americans are humans...bad humans, good humans, mediocre humans, but at least the society isn't insane/barbairc. The society in Arab Muslim countries still have yet to join humanity before they can be really treated as such.

[Šñøü†ê®]

UPDATE: DESPITE THE PROPAGANDA SPEWED BY TELLER AND HIS ILK, MR. GADDAFI IS STILL THERE! The atrocities and war crimes committed by ZATO are most troubling however. Hold the phone! Now the MSM continues to change the spelling of his name, as they did with Osama, and says Mr. Gaddafi is heading to Niger! :confused:

[Truth Teller]

I was pointing out your hypocrisy and the fact that you used and abused Laura Logan almost like an Egyptian as propaganda simply because doing so supports your AIPAC/PNAC/NEOCON objective of endless war to make a mess of countries that don't like zionism. :shrug:

Bullshit! :not:

[Šñøü†ê®]

Teller, since you consider Laurie Logan so special, the question you have to ask yourself is what has Logan done for you lately? :confused:

[GanjaFreebird]

The more important question is what did the barbarians in Egypt do to her lately and for what reason.

[jwreck]

:hitit:

[Truth Teller]

you used and abused Laura Logan almost like an Egyptian

How is advocating that a woman get justice use and abuse?:scratch:


And how is expressing admiration for a trauma survivor use and abuse?


If you knew anything about trauma (besides inducing it),you'd know that it's incredilble how far this woman has come in only six months,and that's while the world was watching ,and with several of those people watching being more unkind to her than they would be to most murderers.



as propaganda simply because doing so supports your AIPAC/PNAC/NEOCON objective of endless war to make a mess of countries that don't like zionism. :shrug:


It's not my fault that mob chanted "Israeli " and "Jew" at her.



Snouter, if you want normal and sane people to stop looking down on Egyptian Arabs, you should encourage their society from acting like barbaric savages. Stopping the rape and sexual harrassment of innocent women would be a good start.



Then how can you explain TT opposing Mubarak and being very open minded about the revolution in Egypt, at least until the savages went wild and started raping everything in sight?:confused:

Again, I ALWAYS said "keep Mubarak, he ain't THAT bad for a Muslim Arab dictator and at least he knows how to control the beasts in his country", but TT actually was open minded about the "Arab spring"...not that I blame him, but obviously the barbarians let him and other liberals down, don't you agree?
Actually,we don't know the full story in her case ,I hope we do find out someday, and before too long at that.

All evidence suggests to me that at the very least renegade elements in the Egyptian Army and/or people in the outgoing Mubarak regeme set her up.

In any case,their culture has been misogynistic and anti-Semitic for eons before Mubarak.



Gongo, there are worse barbaric savages in the USA!

Let's assume for the sake of argument that is true ,in the USA they are (most of the time) brought to justice.

In the Logan case ,you have a shitlaod of witnesses,still pictures and video tape of both suspects and witnesses,and what has the Cairo police done with it?

In this country ,even Barney Fife would be more than competent with such evidence to work on.



UPDATE: DESPITE THE PROPAGANDA SPEWED BY TELLER AND HIS ILK, MR. GADDAFI IS STILL THERE!

Actaully ,there are rumors he slipped over to Nigeria.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Actaully ,there are rumors he slipped over to Nigeria.

Actually Niger! Unless he can jump over Niger like a Nigerian! ;)

[GanjaFreebird]

Actually,we don't know the full story in her case ,I hope we do find out someday, and before too long at that.

All evidence suggests to me that at the very least renegade elements in the Egyptian Army and/or people in the outgoing Mubarak regeme set her up.

In any case,their culture has been misogynistic and anti-Semitic for eons before Mubarak.



I remember that a movie about Saddat (ond of the few Muslim Arab leader in recent history that deserve any kind of praise and respect) was banned in Egypt, because their society were offended that an African-American actor played Saddat:rolleyes::p. So I guess it's nothing personal against Jews or women either;):(.

The interesting thing is that Saddat was 1/4 (if not 1/2) Black African (which is why he kinda looked like a light skin Black guy, rather than then like most Egyptian Arabs), but apparently it's not a topic to be discussed in Egypt, as many people there get offended by the biological truth about Saddat...Snouter can relate to this;).

[Šñøü†ê®]

^Question: ARe there a lot of African-Americans in Israel and are they treated fairly? ;)

Answer: The zionist regime is giving African-AMericans $500 each in US taxpayer money to go back! :p

[86Dùde]

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD TELLER!

[86Dùde]

Obviously, Teller just isn't getting enough.

[GanjaFreebird]

Question: ARe there a lot of African-Americans in Israel

No:). Only a few immigrants from Chicago, known as Black Hebrews.


and are they treated fairly?

Yes, in fact, Whitney Houston comes to Israel for vacations and she loves it there, as does my friend, the legendary Bluesman John Lee Hooker Jr.:D.


Answer: The zionist regime is giving African-AMericans $500 each in US taxpayer money to go back!

Since African-Americans, as USA taxpayers, already paid Israel that money, there is nothing wrong with Israel returning some of it back to them and organizing some trips and vacations to Israel for African-Americans who are very spiritual towards Israel:).

[Šñøü†ê®]

No.

THAT IS WHAT I THOUGHT! :mad:


Only a few immigrants from Chicago, known as Black Hebrews.

Wowsa, you let Black Israelites in! You realize they hate jewish folk for stealing their identity don't you! Be careful! :(


Yes, in fact, Whitney Houston comes to Israel for vacations and she loves it there, as does my friend, the legendary Bluesman John Lee Hooker Jr..

Houston is horrible, but "legendary bluesman" means boring crap that sounds almost exactly the same for every song. I notice "legendary bluesman" claim playing a one or two notes "with feeling" covers up the fact they never took the time to learn more about music and evolve from boring 12 bars stuff. Lazy flucks. :shrug:


Since African-Americans, as USA taxpayers

^Evidence?

[86Dùde]

You need to get your terminology right Ganga: Black jews are "hebros".

[GanjaFreebird]

THAT IS WHAT I THOUGHT!



Right, because unlike White Americans, the Israelis built their own country by themselves and didn't need to enslave people in Africa to do the free work for them, and that is why African-Americans do not live in Israel:rolleyes:.


Wowsa, you let Black Israelites in! You realize they hate jewish folk for stealing their identity don't you! Be careful!


Some of them, but far from all. Some are a bunch of NOI wanabees ignorant anti-semites/racists, while most are nice, spiritually pro-Israel and Jewish-friendly African-Americans who really believe that they are a part of God's chosen people, that's why Ziggy Marley and Whitney Houston love going to Israel:).

And as far as I'm concerned, we can all be Israelites, Black or not, including you:D:nice:.


Houston is horrible, .

Now she might be, but she used to be one of the best vocalists in Pop music ever, at her best.


but "legendary bluesman" means boring crap that sounds almost exactly the same for every song

No, that's heavy metal and modern fusion;).


I notice "legendary bluesman" claim playing a one or two notes "with feeling" covers up the fact they never took the time to learn more about music and evolve from boring 12 bars stuff. Lazy flucks.

They are completely right. Playing with feeling is MUCH more important than technical knowledge. There are PLENY of musicians who know more than 12 bar blues, but only few actually really can play one or two notes with feelings.

Which is why Albert King sounds MUCH better than any metal/fusion player. He could do with 2 notes what they could NEVER do with even 2 million notes:p.

There are only FEW people who have BOTH soul/feeling and incredible all around technical skills, including Jimi, Clapton, SRV, Jeff Beck, Gary Moore, Lonny Mack, Albert Collins and George Harrison, which is why they are my favorites, but I still take soul/feelings over technical skills ANY day of the week.

[GanjaFreebird]

^Evidence?

IRS records. Most people who get in trouble for not paying/cheating on their taxes in America are White;).

[86Dùde]

I'm trying to figure out how we went from Momar's daughters to that crack ho Whitney!

[Truth Teller]

Teller, since you consider Laurie Logan so special, the question you have to ask yourself is what has Logan done for you lately? :confused:
That kind of myopic attitude (also expressed by jwreck implying he didn't care about Jews because none are in his life) perfectly fits modern-day conservatism and is one major reason why I am not a conservative.



The more important question is what did the barbarians in Egypt do to her lately and for what reason.
Correct.


:hitit:

Which one?

Hanna?

Aisha?

Lara?

I get the impression Aisha is your amoral ,authoritarian type,but please say which one you mean?


Actually Niger! Unless he can jump over Niger like a Nigerian! ;)
I didn't say it was true,I said that was the rumor.

The newest rumor is the rebels have him surrounded in Libya within a 40 mile radius.



Obviously, Teller just isn't getting enough.
I bet I get way,way more than you do.:shrug:

You need to get your terminology right Ganga: Black jews are "hebros".

LOL,even I must give that great pun a salute.:nice:

[Šñøü†ê®]

That kind of myopic attitude (also expressed by jwreck implying he didn't care about Jews because none are in his life) perfectly fits modern-day conservatism and is one major reason why I am not a conservative.

Your response is Typical Teller. :nonono: You, Teller, said she was the world's greatest journalist. Being the world's greatest journalist carries with it RESPONSIBLITY! Do you comprehend that! :mad:


I bet I get way,way more than you do.

You talk a big game Teller but the question we all have is....^EVIDENCE? :confused:

[jwreck]

Teller you're reading comprehension is as bad as neutrinos. :nonono:

[Truth Teller]

Teller you're reading comprehension is as bad as neutrinos. :nonono:

Don't blame me for your lack of articulation.

[86Dùde]

Sometimes I think that Teller and I may have gotten off on the wrong foot.

[Truth Teller]

You, Teller, said she was the world's greatest journalist.

Can you produce a verbatim quote of me saying that?

She is one of the world's greatest journalists ,but I never said even that until this very moment.



Being the world's greatest journalist carries with it RESPONSIBLITY! Do you comprehend that!

Name me something irresponsible that she's done as a journalist?

And I mean something factual about her work ,not all the endless ,mostly bullshit ,tabloid/internet rumors about her private life.

[Guido]

She is one of the world's greatest journalists ,but I never said even that until this very moment.

I searched using Google and I can't find any articles written by Lara Logan. Amazon doesn't list any of her books either.

Has Lara Logan ever written anything? Or does her "journalism" consist of reading stuff written by other people in front of a TV camera, primarily based on the fact that she's moderately attractive -- like a weather gurl?


Name me something irresponsible that she's done as a journalist?

As far as I can tell, she's never done anything as a journalist, responsible or not, and Robin Meade is hotter.

Anyway, as I see it, someone who doesn't write isn't a journalist at all. Maybe some kind of celebrity, but not a journalist.

[Truth Teller]

I searched using Google and I can't find any articles written by Lara Logan. Amazon doesn't list any of her books either.

She's a TV journalist.:doh:




Has Lara Logan ever written anything?

I think she began her career as newspaper reporter in South Africa.


Or does her "journalism" consist of reading stuff written by other people in front of a TV camera, primarily based on the fact that she's moderately attractive -- like a weather gurl?

:rofl:

When was the last time a "weather gurl" put herself,unarmed, in a war zone?

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As far as I can tell, she's never done anything as a journalist, responsible or not, and Robin Meade is hotter.

Anyway, as I see it, someone who doesn't write isn't a journalist at all. Maybe some kind of celebrity, but not a journalist.

:cuckoo:

[Šñøü†ê®]

Right, because unlike White Americans, the Israelis built their own country by themselves.

:p Your hatred of White people is blinding you from basic reality!


And as far as I'm concerned, we can all be Israelites, Black or not, including you.

That is true. I can declare myself an Israelite and it is indeed just as valid as your claim since nobody knows where the Lost Tribes of Israel are!

[GanjaFreebird]

Your hatred of White people is blinding you from basic reality!


I don't hate White people, I just know facts about American slavery and the creation of Israel, nothing to do with hate, just history, read about it sometimes:D.


That is true. I can declare myself an Israelite and it is indeed just as valid as your claim since...BOTH OF US ARE JEWS!

EXACTLY, meh Israelite, YOU GOT IT!!!!!!!:nice::nice:

[86Dùde]

Will someone please ban all reference to Lora Logan? Please, god, someone make this pain stop.

[Guido]

She's a TV journalist.

Like Robin Mead and the weather gurl.

What's a "TV journalist"?

Someone who stands/sits in front of a TV camera reading a script written by someone else?

Has Lara Logan ever in her life written an article?

I can think of lots of journalists -- many of whom not only visit but live for extended periods of time in war zones -- who not only write articles, but also books, and perform journalism's historical function of challenging government authority and propaganda.

It seems like Lara Logan has never done anything like that in her entire life.

So tell me, what exactly distinguishes Lara Logan as a "journalist" -- other than the fact that she's moderately attractive, like Robin Mead, and has visited war zones, like thousands of other journalists, including quite a few real journalists (as opposed to "TV journalists")?

[Truth Teller]

Like Robin Mead and the weather gurl.

What's a "TV journalist"?

Someone who stands/sits in front of a TV camera reading a script written by someone else?

Has Lara Logan ever in her life written an article?

I can think of lots of journalists -- many of whom not only visit but live for extended periods of time in war zones -- who not only write articles, but also books, and perform journalism's historical function of challenging government authority and propaganda.

It seems like Lara Logan has never done anything like that in her entire life.

So tell me, what exactly distinguishes Lara Logan as a "journalist" -- other than the fact that she's moderately attractive, like Robin Mead, and has visited war zones, like thousands of other journalists, including quite a few real journalists (as opposed to "TV journalists")?

Did you watch the video links I provided?

If you had you'd find out that she didn't read teletype ,she was in combat with the troops ,only they were armed and she wasn't.

Look up both "journalism" and "journalist" at www.dictionary.com and you'll find she meets both definitions.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Did you watch the video links I provided?

Not really since you usually post EXTREMELY boring stuff. :shrug:


If you had you'd find out that she didn't read teletype ,she was in combat with the troops ,only they were armed and she wasn't.

What is teletype? You mean teleprompter like President TelePrompta? :p TV celebrities broadcasting with troops are probably not allowed to carry weapons or they would definitely be considered targets...although that rule of engagement has not stopped the zionists in the past!

[Guido]

Did you watch the video links I provided?

If you had you'd find out that she didn't read teletype ,she was in combat with the troops ,only they were armed and she wasn't.

Look up both "journalism" and "journalist" at www.dictionary.com and you'll find she meets both definitions.

So, you agree that Logan has never actually written any articles or books, right?

Lots of "journalists" were "in combat with the troops" -- that's called "embedding" reporters with the military and the function is to ensure that they don't write or report anything that isn't pre-approved by the military. In other words, the purpose is to make sure that these fraudulent "journalists" don't actually do any journalism.

Consider the view of Amira Hass (in my opinion, the best working journalist in the world), who lives among the "enemy" and sees her job has giving voice to the dispossessed. The purpose of journalism, according to Hass, is to "monitor power and the centers of power."

By contrast, Lara Logan's function is to present an attractive face to power so that people will have a more difficult time figuring out how it really works -- controlling and destroying lives.

[Šñøü†ê®]

It is very refreshing to see someone like Amira who is the real deal and a stark contrast to fake, phony, MSM celebrity types.

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[Šñøü†ê®]

Another real journalist is my friend Chris Jones. Long retired, he said he cannot even write a memoir type thing at the present time because the folks he lived very close to in so-called communist countries might be endangered.

[Guido]

Excellent video, Snouter.

[Truth Teller]

So, you agree that Logan has never actually written any articles or books, right?

She began her career as a newspaper reporter in South Africa,so it's safe to assume she wrote some articles.

Anyway,look up "journalism" and "journalist" at www.dictionary.com ,amongst the defintions are one who keeps a record of events in print ,photography or broadcasting.

She is a broadcast journalist,but you already knew that,you're just being a troll.




Lots of "journalists" were "in combat with the troops" -- that's called "embedding" reporters with the military and the function is to ensure that they don't write or report anything that isn't pre-approved by the military. In other words, the purpose is to make sure that these fraudulent "journalists" don't actually do any journalism.

Then why have so many right-wingers (especially Bush 43 and Cheney) called her a "terrorist sympthizer" for often reporting the Iraq War was a quagmire?

Why did she put gory footage of a battle in Iraq on the internet after her own network censorsed it?




Consider the view of Amira Hass (in my opinion, the best working journalist in the world), who lives among the "enemy" and sees her job has giving voice to the dispossessed. The purpose of journalism, according to Hass, is to "monitor power and the centers of power."

The job of a real journalist is to be impartial and accurate,Hass is not a journalist but a pundit,one who voices opinions ,not objective facts.




By contrast, Lara Logan's function is to present an attractive face to power so that people will have a more difficult time figuring out how it really works -- controlling and destroying lives.

Common,pseudo-revolutionary, rhetoric espoused by one who yells "Viva revolution" in the comfort of his bourgeois home.:rolleyes:

"I admire real reporters:The Lara Logans and Richard Engels and Dexter Filkins,Jeremy Scahill-people who go to Afghanistan and go to these hellholes,the worst places in the world ,and sometimes don't come back.That's real journalism"-Bill Maher.

[Guido]

The job of a real journalist is to be impartial and accurate,Hass is not a journalist but a pundit,one who voices opinions ,not objective facts.

Your ignorance is just beyond the pale.

The great and non-TV journalist Amira Hass addressed the question of "objectivity" in her profession (journalism), like this:

"There is a misconception that journalists can be objective. Palestinians tell me I'm objective. I think this is important because I'm an Israeli. But being fair and being objective are not the same thing. What journalism is really about – it's to monitor power and the centers of power."

Unlike phony "TV reporter" such as Lara Logan, Hass is not the sort of journalist that allows herself to be "embedded" with the military -- because that might impair her ability to perceive and report the "objective facts" (assuming that such a thing exists at all).

Rather, Hass went to live among those the military was oppressing, to see what it is like and reveal the truth to her own countrymen.

"During the Gulf War, I reached Gaza under curfew – I'd gone to give Palestinians their checks from Israeli employers. That's when my romance with Gaza started. No Israeli journalist knew or covered Gaza. My editor was very sympathetic. When in 1993 the 'peace process' broke out" – Hass requests the inverted commas round the phrase – "Ha'aretz suggested I cover Gaza. One of the editors said: 'We don't want you to live in Gaza.' And I knew at once that I wanted to live there."

"Their towns were being portrayed in the Israeli press as a 'nest of hornets'. But I really wanted to taste what it means to live under occupation – what it is like to live under curfew, to live in fear of a soldier. I wanted to know what it was like to be an Israeli under Israeli occupation." She has used that word "taste" again, just as she did about Romania under dictatorship. She says she was still thinking about her mother's trip to Belsen. "It was this idea of not intervening, not changing anything. And luckily, this combined in me with journalism." Hass is possessed of the idea that change can come only through social movements and their interaction with the press – an odd notion that seems a little illogical.

But there is nothing vague about her vocation. "Israel is obviously the center of power which dictates Palestinian life," she says. "As an Israeli, my task as a journalist is to monitor power. I'm called 'a correspondent on Palestinian affairs', but it's more true to say that I'm an expert in Israeli occupation."

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0826-04.htm


Then there's Lara Logan.


She began her career as a newspaper reporter in South Africa,so it's safe to assume she wrote some articles.

Where can I find these articles by Logan? There don't seem to be any articles by Lara Logan on the Internet.

On the other hand, I know how to find Amira Hass' articles, because they are collected in her books for easy reference:

Drinking the Sea at Gaza: Days and Nights in a Land Under Siege

http://www.amazon.com/Drinking-Sea-Gaza-Nights-Under/dp/0805057404/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315861294&sr=8-1

Reporting from Ramallah: An Israeli Journalist in an Occupied Land

http://www.amazon.com/Reporting-Ramallah-Journalist-Occupied-Semiotext/dp/1584350199/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1315861294&sr=8-2

Diary of Bergen-Belsen: 1944-1945 by Hanna Levy-Hass and Amira Hass

http://www.amazon.com/Diary-Bergen-Belsen-1944-1945-Hanna-Levy-Hass/dp/1931859876/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1315861294&sr=8-3

[Truth Teller]

You've mastered what Orwell called "Newspeak" very well Guido,just like your right-wing buds have.

Now go back to your bourgeois home and cheer on the "revolution" by watching riots on You Tube. :rofl:

And when's the last time you had the balls to go into a war zone unarmed?Or even armed?

I think it kills you that a woman has the guts to do that:

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[Guido]

You've mastered what Orwell called "Newspeak" very well Guido,just like your right-wing buds have.

Now go back to your bourgeois home and cheer on the "revolution" by watching riots on You Tube. :rofl:

And when's the last time you had the balls to go into a war zone unarmed?Or even armed?

I think it kills you that a woman has the guts to do that:

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Perhaps if you spent less time watching hot gurls doing teevee news and more time reading books, you'd be in a position to discuss journalism (or politics, or foreign policy, or the Middle East, etc., etc.) with me. As for now, you're unable to participate.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Teller, does your Denny's have WiFi? :confused: It would be nice if it did so in the event of a road trip, we all can watch You Tube vids together while enjoying a juicy burger, some fries, and a Coke! :nice: And don't worry, we will get all leftist for ya and give you a reasonable tip even if you do not do a good job in serving the food!

[Truth Teller]

Perhaps if you spent less time watching hot gurls doing teevee news and more time reading books,

I'm currently reading Susan Jacoby's latest book.

Jacoby is a true intellectual ,the pseudo-revolutionary propagandists you call "journalists" don't even come close. :rofl:


you'd be in a position to discuss journalism (or politics, or foreign policy, or the Middle East, etc., etc.) with me. As for now, you're unable to participate.

Go sit in your bourgeois home and cry your crocodile tears for the "dispossessed". :violin:

[Guido]

Go sit in your bourgeois home and cry your crocodile tears for the "dispossessed".

This post raises the question: What in your view is the most appropriate attitude toward people who are dispossessed, abused, oppressed, disenfranchised, forced to live under military occupation, etc.?

Sarcasm?
Mockery?
Indifference?
Contempt?

All of the above?

As a contrast to your attitude toward the dispossessed, journalist Amira Hass describes her own attitude, as a journalist and a genuine (as opposed to fraudulent human being) as follows:

Q: Before we talk about the occupation and the suicide bombers, let's talk a little about the way you see your craft, the methodology you use and so on. You, in your work, have gone to live in the communities that you write about. Tell us about that choice as a way to do your craft as a journalist.

Hass: I think it's so natural for a journalist to do so. If I were asked to cover French affairs, I would go and live in Paris, and travel a lot in France, not write about France from Germany. So this a basic in this sort of journalistic work. Then, also, I have this research curiosity which I could satisfy by living there, because what it is, is an ongoing research. So I'm very lucky; I discover a new society and I discover all kinds of facets of this society by living in it, but still by being some sort of an observer and not part of the society in the real sense of the word. Of course, you become part of it sort of, but I'm always in this position of observer while living in the society. It's interesting.

Some have compared my work with anthropological work -- maybe more progressive anthropological work. So this, for me, has been very important also, personally. I do have an obsession with getting the taste of the flavor of things from inside. When I was twenty, I lived for four or five months in Romania. It was under Ceausescu. I felt this philosophical responsibility, I will tell you, because I came from a communist family. I didn't have any illusions about the regimes in Eastern Europe. I felt because I come from such a family and from such ideological background, I have a philosophical responsibility to taste life in the mutation or in this terrible dictatorship that evolved in Eastern Europe.


Q: You wrote in the introduction to the Gaza book: "It has always been my conviction that history is made more in the currents of ordinary life than it is by rulers and their ceremonies."

Hass: I referred there to why I was not interested in the coming of Abu Mazen to Gaza, after he had one of a series of feuds and disagreements with Arafat. He came all of a sudden, so everybody was very interested in this. But for me, it just looked like a boring ritual of people who think themselves at the top of the Olympus. I prefer to be with friends who made their own history.

Q: Tell me a little about your craft as a writer. Your pieces are beautifully written. They are comprehensive and they detail every day life. There's an eye for things that people ignore. How do you do this? How did you come to do it so well?

Hass: Thank you. That's not the basic requirement of journalism.

Sometimes I see kind of a film, and then I feel I have to describe the film in words. If I were a filmmaker, that's how I would have done it with pictures. So that's my way. Then, also, of course, I don't only write features, I write op-eds. I know that I have to expose the analysis, but I prefer to expose it through examples from daily life, and not to burden with slogans. I'm trying to avoid slogans as much as possible, because I live in a society, both Israeli and Palestinian, that is really overcrowded with slogans and one-sentence exclamations. And I'm very ... I'm appalled by it.

http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/people3/Hass/hass-con2.html

[Šñøü†ê®]

I'm currently reading Susan Jacoby's latest book.

It must be really educational! :rolleyes:


Jacoby is a true intellectual ,the pseudo-revolutionary propagandists you call "journalists" don't even come close.

That would be a NO. :nonono: But we know why your are interested in her ;) you are so predictably racist :( but she is EXTREMELY unintellectual and actually as you like to say, a buffoon! :shrug: Also, she does NOT even claim to be a journalist!

Teller, you are so clueless, it is really fascinating. :)

[Truth Teller]

This post raises the question: What in your view is the most appropriate attitude toward people who are dispossessed, abused, oppressed, disenfranchised, forced to live under military occupation, etc.?

Sarcasm?
Mockery?
Indifference?
Contempt?

All of the above?

As a contrast to your attitude toward the dispossessed, journalist Amira Hass describes her own attitude, as a journalist and a genuine (as opposed to fraudulent human being) as follows:

Q: Before we talk about the occupation and the suicide bombers, let's talk a little about the way you see your craft, the methodology you use and so on. You, in your work, have gone to live in the communities that you write about. Tell us about that choice as a way to do your craft as a journalist.

Hass: I think it's so natural for a journalist to do so. If I were asked to cover French affairs, I would go and live in Paris, and travel a lot in France, not write about France from Germany. So this a basic in this sort of journalistic work. Then, also, I have this research curiosity which I could satisfy by living there, because what it is, is an ongoing research. So I'm very lucky; I discover a new society and I discover all kinds of facets of this society by living in it, but still by being some sort of an observer and not part of the society in the real sense of the word. Of course, you become part of it sort of, but I'm always in this position of observer while living in the society. It's interesting.

Some have compared my work with anthropological work -- maybe more progressive anthropological work. So this, for me, has been very important also, personally. I do have an obsession with getting the taste of the flavor of things from inside. When I was twenty, I lived for four or five months in Romania. It was under Ceausescu. I felt this philosophical responsibility, I will tell you, because I came from a communist family. I didn't have any illusions about the regimes in Eastern Europe. I felt because I come from such a family and from such ideological background, I have a philosophical responsibility to taste life in the mutation or in this terrible dictatorship that evolved in Eastern Europe.


Q: You wrote in the introduction to the Gaza book: "It has always been my conviction that history is made more in the currents of ordinary life than it is by rulers and their ceremonies."

Hass: I referred there to why I was not interested in the coming of Abu Mazen to Gaza, after he had one of a series of feuds and disagreements with Arafat. He came all of a sudden, so everybody was very interested in this. But for me, it just looked like a boring ritual of people who think themselves at the top of the Olympus. I prefer to be with friends who made their own history.

Q: Tell me a little about your craft as a writer. Your pieces are beautifully written. They are comprehensive and they detail every day life. There's an eye for things that people ignore. How do you do this? How did you come to do it so well?

Hass: Thank you. That's not the basic requirement of journalism.

Sometimes I see kind of a film, and then I feel I have to describe the film in words. If I were a filmmaker, that's how I would have done it with pictures. So that's my way. Then, also, of course, I don't only write features, I write op-eds. I know that I have to expose the analysis, but I prefer to expose it through examples from daily life, and not to burden with slogans. I'm trying to avoid slogans as much as possible, because I live in a society, both Israeli and Palestinian, that is really overcrowded with slogans and one-sentence exclamations. And I'm very ... I'm appalled by it.

http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/people3/Hass/hass-con2.html
"Propaganda all is phony"-Bob Dylan.



It must be really educational! :rolleyes:

It's intelligent and human.







But we know why your are interested in her ;) you are so predictably racist

WTF?:scratch:


:( but she is EXTREMELY unintellectual and actually as you like to say, a buffoon! :shrug:

Read The Age Of American Unreason (one of my very favorite books) and then say that.


Also, she does NOT even claim to be a journalist!

That's because she isn't a journalist,she's a pundit,a commentator and a real intellectual.


Unlike Guido,I don't confuse those things.:shrug:


Teller, you are so clueless, it is really fascinating. :)

Did you type that in your parents basement?

[Guido]

"Propaganda all is phony"-Bob Dylan.


Is Bob Dylan really the author of the illiterate quote you attribute to him, or is the illiteracy your own work?

I've never heard of Susan Jacoby. Is she one of those cute, perky news anchors you like to jerk off to?

[Šñøü†ê®]

Susan Jacoby's claim to fame is running around the MSM with a book she put together that features a survey by someone else indicating Christians don't know Genesis or the four Gospels. I proved Ganga doesn't know them either, so I am wondering if that can be the basis of a book too! I will have to have my agent check with the MSM publishers and discuss the topic.

[GanjaFreebird]

by someone else indicating Christians don't know Genesis or the four Gospels. I proved Ganga doesn't know them either, so I am wondering if that can be the basis of a book too!

:jester:

I know way more about Christianity than you, in fact, I also know even more about your own religion, Judaism;):p.


I will have to have my agent check with the MSM publishers and discuss the topic.

Snouter, stop bullshitting, your dad will not go talk to the MSM publishers to get a publishing deal for your drunk schizophrenic bullshit, he knows better than that:p:D.

[Truth Teller]

Is Bob Dylan really the author of the illiterate quote you attribute to him, or is the illiteracy your own work?

I've never heard of Susan Jacoby. Is she one of those cute, perky news anchors you like to jerk off to?
I see your "vacation " has taught you nothing.



Susan Jacoby's claim to fame is running around the MSM with a book she put together that features a survey by someone else indicating Christians don't know Genesis or the four Gospels

Well,she went to Catholic schools,so I bet she would know.

Again,read The Age Of American Unreason, agree with it (as I mostly do) or disagree with it,that book is not the product of a light thinker.

[Šñøü†ê®]

But Teller, why did you attempt to discredit a real journalist like Amira Hass by presenting us with that Jacoby clown? Why do you hate the truth so much damnit!

[Guido]

But Teller, why did you attempt to discredit a real journalist like Amira Hass by presenting us with that Jacoby clown? Why do you hate the truth so much damnit!

Logically, he'd have to recognize the truth in order to hate it, but in fact he's utterly lost in a wilderness of nonsense where the truth is as rare and fleeting as a quark.

[Powerboss]

I see your "vacation " has taught you nothing.

Tell us, What did your "vacation" teach you?

[86Dùde]

Tell us, What did your "vacation" teach you?

That having sex with thai boys has certain repercussions.

[Truth Teller]

But Teller, why did you attempt to discredit a real journalist like Amira Hass
Hass is a pundit ,not a journalist.




Logically, he'd have to recognize the truth in order to hate it, but in fact he's utterly lost in a wilderness of nonsense where the truth is as rare and fleeting as a quark.

:rofl:

[Truth Teller]

Tell us, What did your "vacation" teach you?
To say what I want to say ,in a smarter way.


That having sex with thai boys has certain repercussions.

And you've been reported.

[Guido]

Hass is a pundit ,not a journalist.


We can now add "the meaning of the English words 'journalist' and 'journalism'" to the long, apparently interminable list of subjects of which you are ignorant.


To say what I want to say ,in a smarter way.

:lol::lol::lol:

[Guido]

Hass is a pundit ,not a journalist.

Someone -- like Teller, for instance -- should inform Ha'aretz that its employee is not a real journalist and she's been fooling them all these years about her credentials:

Haaretz reporter Amira Hass arrested upon leaving Gaza
Hass released on bail after promising not to reenter the coastal territory over the next 30 days.
By Haaretz Service

Israel Police on Tuesday detained Haaretz correspondent Amira Hass upon her exit from the Gaza Strip, where she had been living and reporting over the last few months.

Hass was arrested and taken in for questioning immediately after crossing the border, for violating a law which forbids residence in an enemy state. She was released on bail after promising not to enter the Gaza Strip over the next 30 days.

Hass is the first Israeli journalist to enter the Gaza Strip in more than two years, since the Israel Defense Forces issued an entry ban following the abduction of IDF soldier Gilad Shalit in a 2006 cross-border raid by Palestinian militants.

Israel Press Council chairwoman Dalia Dorner, a former Supreme Court justice, commented then that even journalists are subject to the law and the council cannot defend a reporter who breaks the law. Instead, she said, local journalists ought to petition the High Court of Justice against the army's order.

http://www.haaretz.com/misc/article-print-page/haaretz-reporter-amira-hass-arrested-upon-leaving-gaza-1.275889?trailingPath=2.169%2C2.216%2C

The International Women's Media Foundation should also be told the news:

International Women’s Media Foundation Honors Israeli Journalist Amira Hass with 2009 Lifetime Achievement Award.

Amira Hass is a reporter and columnist for Ha’aretz Daily, a newspaper based in Tel Aviv, Israel. She has been a journalist for two decades.

http://www.iwmf.org/archive/articletype/articleview/articleid/968/amira-hass.aspx

[Powerboss]

That having sex with thai boys has certain repercussions.

ROFL. You knew he was going to report you for that one.... LOL


To say what I want to say ,in a smarter way.

"Evidence"? I see no evidence of that. You seem to be the same old angry, vile, hate-filled poster than you have always been.




And you've been reported.

Be honest; How many times a day do you use the "report post" button? I've heard that the mods are sick and tired of your whining and your ability to dish it out but not take it. Obviously you have Siv-Vulk pampering you right now but I'm sure over time that will work itself out once he sees what a crybaby you are.

[Truth Teller]

We can now add "the meaning of the English words 'journalist' and 'journalism'" to the long, apparently interminable list of subjects of which you are ignorant.

Aw,that's not nice Guido,plus that's a violation of the TOS.

Again ,you are doing what George Orwell called "newspeak" (your right-wing buddies are the real masters at it though)what I've said about journalism and journalists is consistant with the defintions at www.dictionary.com which are the definitions as used by most of society.

I know you think every self-hating Jew with a anti-Israel blog is a journalist, but that is not the case.


ROFL. You knew he was going to report you for that one.... LOL

Why should I have good will for someone who has no good will for me? :scratch:


"Evidence"? I see no evidence of that. You seem to be the same old angry, vile, hate-filled poster than you have always been.

I don't cross the line anymore,I might hit the line(and I don't do that near as much as I used to) but I don't cross it.


Be honest; How many times a day do you use the "report post" button?

Latley,not that often.



I've heard that the mods are sick and tired of your whining and your ability to dish it out but not take it

Have you heard that since my last "vacation"?

I didn't think so.


Obviously you have Siv-Vulk pampering you right now but I'm sure over time that will work itself out once he sees what a crybaby you are.

I honestly have no idea who is resposible for your two homeys (and my one homey) getting banned,nor do I really care.

I do know that I had virtually nothing to do with it(although it wouldn't be wrong if I did),and I haven't violated the TOS recently ,unlike some people I could name.

[Guido]

Again ,you are doing what George Orwell called "newspeak" (your right-wing buddies are the real masters at it though)what I've said about journalism and journalists is consistant with the defintions at www.dictionary.com which are the definitions as used by most of society.

I know you think every self-hating Jew with a anti-Israel blog is a journalist, but that is not the case.


Here's how Christiane Anampour introduced Amira Hass when she accepted her Lifetime Achievement Award (it appears that Anampour doesn't understand that Hass is not a journalist; the only one who understands this is Teller):

Amira Hass was awarded the 2009 Lifetime Achievement Award from the International Women’s Media Foundation at a ceremony in New York Tuesday. We’ll go to her acceptance speech in a moment, but first here is CNN’s Christiane Amanpour introducing Amira Hass, whom she described as, quote, "one of the greatest truth-seekers of them all."


CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Amira monitors power by following the lives of average people caught in its machinations, and she’s on the ground listening and collecting their testimonies. And as I said, she is often providing the material for those of us who don’t know the story as well or who sometimes are not able to go where she goes to be able to follow her leads.


She writes what the Palestinian journalists think about their country’s leadership but dare not say themselves. She writes what she thinks citizens of Israel should know about their leadership but do not want to hear.


Some call her a traitor. It is uncomfortable to hear the truth; it’s very uncomfortable to tell the truth. Some say that she is the only voice of truth in a polarized conflict. For twenty years, she’s paid no attention to either of these camps, choosing instead to follow her own path. Amira knows what Irena just said, that dictators do not like journalists, but more than that, democracies often don’t like journalists either.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/10/21/israeli_journalist_amira_hass

[Guido]

Here is Hass' acceptance speech. Ironically, Hass, like Teller, refers to "Orwellian newspeak."

AMIRA HASS: Shalom, marhaba.


Allow me to start with a correction. “Ah, how impolite,” you’d rightly think. But anyway, we Israelis are being forgiven for much worse than impoliteness. What is so generously termed today by the International Women’s Media Foundation as my “lifetime achievement” needs to be corrected, because it is failure. Nothing more than a failure. A lifetime failure. Come to think of it, the “lifetime” part is just as questionable. After all, it is about a third of my life, not more, that I have been engaged in journalism. Also, if the “lifetime” part gives you the impression that I am soon going to retire, then this impression has to be corrected, as well. I’m not planning to end soon what I’m doing.


What am I doing? I’m generally defined as a reporter on Palestinian issues. But, in fact, my reports are about the Israeli society and policies, about domination and intoxications. My sources are not secret documents and leaked-out minutes which were taken out of meetings of people with power and in power; my sources are the open ways by which the subjugated are being dispossessed of their equal rights as human beings.


There is still much more to learn about Israel, to learn about my society and about the Israeli decision makers, who invent restrictions such as: Gazan students are not to study in a Palestinian university in the West Bank, some seventy kilometers away from their home. Another ban: children above the age of eighteen are not to visit their Palestinian parents in Gaza, if the parents are well and healthy. If the parents are dying, Israeli order-abiding officials would have allowed a visit. If the children are younger than eighteen, the visit would have been allowed, as well. But on the other hand, second-degree relatives are not allowed to visit dying or healthy siblings in Gaza. It is an intriguing philosophical question, not only journalistic. Think of it. What, for the Israeli system, is so disturbing about reasonably healthy fathers or mothers? What is so disturbing about a kid choosing and getting a better education? And these are but two in a long, long list of Israeli prohibitions.


Also, when I write about the progressively decimated and fragmented Palestinian territory of the West Bank, it’s not just about people losing their family property and livelihood that I write. It’s not only about the shrinking opportunities of people in disconnected, crowded enclaves. It is in fact a story about the skills of Israeli architects. It is a way to learn about how Israeli on-the-ground planning contradicts official proclamations, a phenomenon which collectivizes the acts of all Israeli governments in the past as in the present.


In short, there is so much to keep me busy for another lifetime, or at least for the rest of my lifetime. But, as I said, the real correction is elsewhere. It’s not about achievement that we should be talking here, but about a failure. It is the failure to make the Israeli and international public use and accept correct terms and words which reflect the reality, not the Orwellian Newspeak that has flourished since 1993 and has been cleverly dictated and disseminated by those with invested interests. The peace process terminology, which took reign, blurs the perception of real processes that are going on: a special Israeli blend of military occupation, colonialism, apartheid, Palestinian limited self-rule in enclaves, and a democracy for Jews.


It is not my role as a journalist to make my fellow Israelis and Jews agree that these processes are immoral and dangerously unwise for all of us. It is my role, though, to exercise the right for freedom of the press in order to supply information and to make people know. But as I’ve painfully discovered over the years, the right to know does not mean a duty to know. Thousands of my articles and zillion of words have evaporated. They could not compete with the official language that has been happily adopted by the mass media and is used in order to dis-portray the reality, official language that encourages people not to know. Indeed, a remarkable failure for a journalist.

[Guido]

I know you think every self-hating Jew with a anti-Israel blog is a journalist, but that is not the case.


Here's what "self-hating Jew and anti-Israeli blogger" Amira Hass (who doesn't have a blog but is a correspondent for Ha'aretz and the author of several highly praised books) has to say about her family background and her motivation for writing non-journalism:

AMIRA HASS: I grew up in the houses of survivors and left wing activists since before the Holocaust and afterwards. This was like — the things, this quest for justice, the anger with power, the being dissidents, it was a way of life. It was as natural as you waking up in the morning. So, that’s why I say it wasn’t — all my decisions later on, my — related to work and then going to Gaza were not such a revolutionary — they were not so revolutionary as it might sound. You could say I’m even conservative. I follow the suit of my parents.

AMY GOODMAN: Your parents — one of your parents in the concentration camps?

AMIRA HASS: My mother was a survivor of Bergen-Belsen. In Bergen-Belsen, she wrote a diary, which was, of course, very dangerous. She would put — she would be killed on the spot if the Germans discovered her writing the diary. She also ran a clandestine school for the little children, Yugoslav children, in her barrack. This needed, of course, a lot of cooperation with the other inmates. While she was writing in her diary, other inmates were watching around and making sure that no cop or no collaborator, no other — no German approaches or gets closer to the barrack. And teaching the children was without books, of course, without anything, just to keep them busy and maybe to let them — to let their curiosity go across this terrible reality where they were all of them. I don’t know how many of them were left alive afterwards. My father was in a ghetto in Romania for three, four years, in the Ukraine. And I lived in this — I grew up in this environment where one never shied about what happened to the Jews as victims. One always — I learned to ask from my parents how the Germans could kill like that, not how the Jews could have died like that. And I think it was a very important message for me. Later on, I knew that my parents came as refugees to Israel. They were not Zionists, and they chose to come to Israel, even not really understanding why they chose to come to Israel, but later on with the years, I realized, and I might have even given this answer myself, there was such a vacuum — such a vacuum was created in Europe after the Holocaust, not only because of the 6 million, not only because of the murder of the 6 million, and all of the graves and unknown graves that were there, but the fact is that Europe did not know how to accept back the Jews who remained alive. In so many countries, in the east — in east Europe and west Europe alike, the people who returned from concentration camps were seen almost as strangers, as if it wasn’t their place. This was one of the reasons why my parents as refugees chose to go and maybe to try to live a better world in Israel. Then they are on — then they were so very frustrated with the knowledge that while coming and becoming refugees — seeking for refuge in Israel, and the establishment of the state of Israel was involved with the terrible dispossession with another people, of the Palestinians. And this life in this contradiction, I think, has determined our lives all of these years long and until their death a few years ago.

http://www.democracynow.org/2005/4/12/israeli_journalist_amira_hass_reflects_on

The Guardian newspaper is also under then impression that Hass is a "journalist" rather than a self-hating Jewish blogger:

Only Amira Hass could have received the International Women's Media Foundation lifetime achievement award by saying her life as a journalist had been a failure. By her standards maybe, but then she sets them high. If her aim is to stop successive Israeli governments lying about what they do in the occupied territories, then it is true that the language laundromat, as she once put it, keeps on turning. But make no mistake, the Haaretz columnist fully deserves this award. She is the only Israeli journalist to have lived in and reported from Gaza and Ramallah for much of the last two decades. In describing the effects of the occupation on the lives of Palestinians, she has been pilloried by Israelis and fallen foul of Hamas. Her moral anchor is firmly rooted in painful collective memories. Her mother survived a concentration camp and her father the ghettos of Romania and Ukraine. "What luck my parents are dead," Hass wrote at the height of the Gaza operation in January. Her parents could not stand the noise of Israeli jet fighters flying over the Palestinian refugee camps in 1982, and nor could they have tolerated going about their daily chores in Tel Aviv with the knowledge of what was going on in their name in Gaza: "They knew what it meant to close people behind barbed-wire fences in a small area." Only a Jew can invert the "never again" logic of the Holocaust that is used to justify Israel's least justifiable actions. It is that very experience, Hass argues, that should teach Israel to behave differently.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/24/in-praise-of-amira-hass

[Truth Teller]

Robin Meade is hotter.

Actually ,the most attractive journalist IMO is Betty Nguyen ,and she is a very good reporter too,though nowhere in Logan's league:

NW_ef-lv2l0







someone who doesn't write isn't a journalist at all.

Orwellian newspeak.:shrug:


Journalists are in print ,audio and video.

[Guido]

Orwellian newspeak

Teller, is this your way of begging for further humiliation? If so, I am happy to oblige. (It's easier than falling off a log, after all.)

[Guido]

Robert Fisk, correspondent for the Independent, also needs to be informed by Teller that Amira Hass is a self-hating Jew who writes an anti-Israel blog, and not a "journalist."

Jewish journalist Amira Hass doesn't merely report on the experiences of Palestinians on the West Bank - she shares their lives

by Robert Fisk

Whenever Amira Hass tries to explain her vocation as a journalist, she recalls a seminal moment in her mother's life. Hannah Hass was being marched from a cattle train to the concentration camp of Bergen-Belsen on a summer's day in 1944. "She and the other women had been 10 days in the train from Yugoslavia. They were sick and some were dying. Then my mother saw these German women looking at the prisoners, just looking. This image became very formative in my upbringing, this despicable 'looking from the side'. It's as if I was there and saw it myself." Amira Hass stares at you through wire-framed glasses as she speaks, anxious to make sure you have understood the importance of the Jewish Holocaust in her life.

In her evocative book Drinking the Sea at Gaza, Hass eloquently explains why she, an Israeli journalist, went to live in Yasser Arafat's tiny, garbage-strewn statelet. "In the end," she wrote, "my desire to live in Gaza stemmed neither from adventurism nor from insanity, but from that dread of being a bystander, from my need to understand, down to the last detail, a world that is, to the best of my political and historical comprehension, a profoundly Israeli creation. To me, Gaza embodies the entire saga of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; it represents the central contradiction of the state of Israel – democracy for some, dispossession for others; it is our exposed nerve."

Now living in the West Bank town of Ramallah – with the Palestinians whom many of her people regard as "terrorists", listening to the Palestinian curses heaped upon "the Jews" for their confiscations and dispossessions and murder squads and settlements – Amira Hass is among the bravest of reporters, her daily column in Ha'aretz ablaze with indignation at the way her own country, Israel, is mistreating and killing the Palestinians. Only when you meet her, however, do you realize the intensity – the passion – of her work. "There is a misconception that journalists can be objective," she tells me, the same sharp glance to ensure my comprehension. "Palestinians tell me I'm objective. I think this is important because I'm an Israeli. But being fair and being objective are not the same thing. What journalism is really about – it's to monitor power and the centers of power."

Each day, Amira Hass writes an essay about despair, a chronological narrative she maintains when talking about her own life and about her parents: her mother, a Sarajevo Jew who joined Tito's partisans and was forced to surrender to the Nazis when they threatened to kill every woman in the Montenegrin town of Cetinje; her father Avraham who spent four years in the Transnistria ghetto, escaping a plague of typhus only to lose his toes to frostbite.

The story of the secular Jews Hannah and Avraham is essential to an understanding of Amira. "My parents came here to Israel naively. They were offered a house in Jerusalem. But they refused it. They said: 'We cannot take the house of other refugees.' They meant Palestinians. So you see, it's not such a big deal that I write what I do – it's not a big deal that I live among Palestinians." Hass became a journalist by default. She had survived on odd jobs – she once worked as a cleaner – and traveled to Holland. "I sensed there the absence of Jewish existence. And this told me many things, especially about my attitude to Israel, how not to be a Zionist. This is my place, Israel, the language, the people, the culture, the colors..."

Hass dropped out of the Hebrew University where she was researching the history of the Nazis and the attitude of the European left to the Holocaust. "I was stuck. The first intifada broke out and I didn't want to sit in academia while all this was happening. I used wasta – you know that Arabic word? – to get a copy-editing job on the Ha'aretz news desk in '89." Wasta means "pull" or "influence". Ha'aretz is a liberal, free-thinking paper, the nearest Israel has to The Independent. When the Romanian revolution broke out, Hass pleaded to be sent to cover the story – she had many contacts from a visit to Bucharest in 1977 – and much to her surprise, Ha'aretz agreed, even though she'd been with the paper only three months.

"When I'd gone to Romania before, I felt I had this philosophical responsibility to taste life under this socialist regime," she says. "It was a thousand times worse than I imagined. There was this terrible pressure – life under Israeli occupation is not as bad as life in Ceausescu's Romania. It was unbelievable suffocation. So I covered the revolution for two weeks and then went back to the paper. Ha'aretz didn't know if I could write – I knew I could. But I also knew never to look for what all the other journalists are looking for."

In 1990, with her parents' support, she joined a group called Workers' Hotline, which assisted Palestinians who were cheated by their Israeli employers. "During the Gulf War, I reached Gaza under curfew – I'd gone to give Palestinians their checks from Israeli employers. That's when my romance with Gaza started. No Israeli journalist knew or covered Gaza. My editor was very sympathetic. When in 1993 the 'peace process' broke out" – Hass requests the inverted commas round the phrase – "Ha'aretz suggested I cover Gaza. One of the editors said: 'We don't want you to live in Gaza.' And I knew at once that I wanted to live there."

From the start, Hass recalls, there was "something very warm about the Palestinian attitude – there was a lot of humor in these harsh conditions." When I suggest that this might be something she had recognized in Jews, Hass immediately agrees. "Of course. I'm an east European Jew and the life of the shtetl is inbuilt in me. And I guess I found in Gaza a shtetl. I remember finding refugees from Jabalya camp, sitting on a beach. I asked them what they were doing. And one said he was 'waiting to be 40 years old' – so he'd be old enough to get a permit to work in Israel. This was a very Jewish joke."

But Hass found no humor in the Israeli policy of "closure", of besieging Palestinian towns and throttling their economy and people. "I spotted as early as 1991 that the policy of 'closure' was a very clever step by the Israeli occupation system, a kind of pre-emptive strike," she says. "The way it debilitates any kind of Palestinian action and reaction is amazing. 'Closure' was also a goal: a demographic separation which means that Jews have the right to move about the space of Mandatory Palestine. The 'closure' policy brought this to a real perfection."

Hass found herself fascinated with the difference between Palestinian image and reality. "Their towns were being portrayed in the Israeli press as a 'nest of hornets'. But I really wanted to taste what it means to live under occupation – what it is like to live under curfew, to live in fear of a soldier. I wanted to know what it was like to be an Israeli under Israeli occupation." She has used that word "taste" again, just as she did about Romania under dictatorship. She says she was still thinking about her mother's trip to Belsen. "It was this idea of not intervening, not changing anything. And luckily, this combined in me with journalism." Hass is possessed of the idea that change can come only through social movements and their interaction with the press – an odd notion that seems a little illogical.

But there is nothing vague about her vocation. "Israel is obviously the center of power which dictates Palestinian life," she says. "As an Israeli, my task as a journalist is to monitor power. I'm called 'a correspondent on Palestinian affairs', but it's more true to say that I'm an expert in Israeli occupation." Israeli reaction, she says, is very violent towards her. "I get messages saying I must have been a kapo [a Jewish camp overseer for the Nazis] in my first incarnation. Then I'll get an e-mail saying: 'Bravo, you have written a great article – Heil Hitler!' Someone told me they hoped I suffered breast cancer. 'Until we expel all Palestinians, there will be no peace,' some of them say. I can't reply to them – there are thousands of these messages."

But many Israelis tell Amira Hass to keep writing. "People misled themselves into believing that Oslo was a peace process – so they became very angry with the Palestinians. Part of their anger is directed at me. Israelis do not go to the occupied territories. They do not see with their own eyes. They don't see a Palestinian village with a settler on its land and a village that has no water and needs government permission even to plant a tree, let alone build a new school. People don't understand how the dispersal of Jewish settlements dictates Israeli control over Palestinian territory."

As her mother lay dying this spring, Amira feared that she would be trapped by the Israeli siege of Ramallah – where she now lives – and spent hours commuting the few miles to Jerusalem. Now she is alone. The woman who taught her to despise those who were "looking from the side" died two months ago.


http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0826-04.htm

I wonder why Robert Fisk isn't writing about real journalists such as Lorie Logan??? Teller, do you know?

[Truth Teller]

Amira Hass when she accepted her Lifetime Achievement Award

Lara Logan will get a Lifetime Achievement Award in a couple of months,yet you don't think she's a journalist (though I'd bet most people would disagree with you).:shrug:

[Truth Teller]

people who are dispossessed, abused, oppressed, disenfranchised

And what is your attutude about people who are dispossessed,abused,oppressed,disenfranchised and killed in the jihadist nations you support?

I've yet to see you show any concern about the victims of misogyny and anti-Semitism in those nations.

[Guido]

Lara Logan will get a Lifetime Achievement Award in a couple of months,yet you don't think she's a journalist (though I'd bet most people would disagree with you).:shrug:

Logan probably fits within the definition of "journalist" in the trivial sense that TV news personalities are "journalists." Heraldo Rivera is also a journalist, I suppose, and the various "news anchors," etc.

But they aren't good, or worthwhile, or significant journalists because they don't produce anything of lasting value, like books and articles. In fact, I honestly can think of anything Laura Logan has ever done, other than being groped in Cairo. I can't think of any article she's written, any book, any television or radio report -- nothing. In other words, I can't think of any work of journalism that Logan has authored or even contributed to.

Of course, this is in stark contrast to what I consider to be genuine journalists like Amira Hass, Robert Fisk, Nir Rosen and many others from whom I have learned and continue to learn about the world every day. I agree with Hass that the basic function of a journalist is to "monitor power," and that's why the people I rely on are systematically marginalized and ignored by the media establishment in the United States. In fact, I would say that the best measure of someone's real value as a journalist is the degree to which he or she is ignored and marginalized by the corporate media and the political establishment.

Honestly, I don't even watch TV news at all. I consider it all to be worthless and a waste of time -- just a recycling of the conventional wisdom, which I reject -- so maybe that's why I don't know Logan's work.

[jwreck]

And you've been reported.
WAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! THE WORDS ON THE SCREEN SAY MEAN THINGS!!!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!

[Truth Teller]

I've never heard of Susan Jacoby. Is she one of those cute, perky news anchors you like to jerk off to?
Susan Jacoby is an author,intellectual and commentator.

You and Snouter should read her book Half-Jew, it is both her memoir and her dissertation of anti-Semitism.

Her mother was Catholic ,her father was a Jew who converted to Catholicism,she didn't know about the Jewish half of her family until she was well into her 20s and then only found out about it by accident.

Today,she is an atheist ,but she is also very proud of her Jewish heritage, nor does she regret her Catholic education.

Guido,I think you once said that ethnically you are Jewish but religiously you are Christian (both of which makes your support of Islamic jihadists all the more incredible IMO).

In one segment of Half-Jew ,Jacoby notes that it is one thing if a Jew converts to Christianity to save their neck,but it's another thing if one converts (like her father and most of his kin did) because being Christian gave one more social advantage than being Jewish did.

She found out the main reason her father and most of his kin converted was because they didn't want their children to be subjected to anti-Semitic taunts like he/they were.

Now,she added her father also liked the Catholic faith and that one can convert for sincere religious reasons,but even then one is still deprived of the spiritual sustenance (that is their birthright/heritage) offered by religious Judaism and cultural Jewishness.


Logan probably fits within the definition of "journalist" in the trivial sense that TV news personalities are "journalists."
A true journalist is someone who reports honestly and objectively as Logan does,propagandists are not journalists.





I consider to be genuine journalists like Amira Hass, Robert Fisk, Nir Rosen

They are propagandists and commentators,they are not journalists.

[Guido]

Teller, one thing I really appreciate about you is that you just don't know when to quit. You don't know the meaning of "cut your losses."

When you're in a deep hole, your natural instinct is to dig an even deeper hole. It's like reading "Journey to the Center of the Earth," but not as well written.

Continuation of this protracted exercise in humiliation is your choice and I will accommodate.


I consider to be genuine journalists like Amira Hass, Robert Fisk, Nir Rosen
They are propagandists and commentators,they are not journalists.



A true journalist is someone who reports honestly and objectively as Logan does,propagandists are not journalists.

Disregarding the world's best journalist (Amira Hass, who in my opinion is a far superior journalist to Fisk) for the moment, you're saying that Robert Fisk is not a journalist?

Robert Fisk (born 12 July 1946) is an English writer and journalist from Maidstone, Kent. As Middle East correspondent of The Independent, he has primarily been based in Beirut for more than 30 years.[1] He has published a number of books and has reported on the United States's war in Afghanistan and the same country's 2003 invasion of Iraq. Fisk holds more British and International Journalism awards than any other foreign correspondent.

A vernacular Arabic speaker, he is one of few Western journalists to have interviewed Osama bin Laden, and did so three times between 1994 and 1997.[4][5] His awards include being voted International Journalist of the Year seven times.

Fisk has said that journalism must "challenge authority, all authority, especially so when governments and politicians take us to war." He has quoted with approval the Israeli journalist Amira Hass: "There is a misconception that journalists can be objective ... What journalism is really about is to monitor power and the centres of power."[6]

Speaking on “Lies, Misreporting, and Catastrophe in the Middle East,” at the First Congregational Church of Berkeley, September 22, 2010, Fisk stated, "I think it is the duty of a foreign correspondent to be neutral and unbiased on the side of those who suffer, whoever they may be."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_fisk

Fisk won the Orwell Prize for Journalism in 1999:

http://theorwellprize.co.uk/shortlists/robert-fisk/

Robert Fisk, The Independent's Middle East correspondent, has won a prestigious prize dedicated to serious political journalism for his investigation into the 1915 massacre of Armenian Christians by the Turks.


Robert Fisk, The Independent's Middle East correspondent, has won a prestigious prize dedicated to serious political journalism for his investigation into the 1915 massacre of Armenian Christians by the Turks.

Fisk became the 14th recipient of the David Watt prize for "outstanding contributions towards the clarification of political issues and the promotion of their greater understanding". The prize was set up in memory of Watt, a journalist who spent five years as director of the Royal Institute of International Affairs (Chatham House).

"This award for me as a foreign correspondent is a kind of flak jacket, probably more powerful and protective than the 12 pounds of steel we wretched journalists had to walk around Bosnia in to protect us from the shells."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/fisk-wins-award-for-political-journalism-678347.html

Robert Fisk, The Independent's Middle East correspondent, will receive the International Prize today at the prestigious Amalfi Coast Media Awards in Italy.


The awards celebrate the best of contemporary journalism in Italy and abroad and the winners are chosen by a jury of senior figures in the industry. In honouring Mr Fisk the jury said he demonstrated "objectivity and a desire to bring the news, whatever the cost".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/robert-fisk-wins-international-prize-2299315.html

You would like say that Fisk and Hass are not journalists because you don't like their viewpoints, which from your conventional establishment perspective, are too left wing, too challenging of the status quo, and government power. You prefer "TV journalist" Lara Logan whose degraded posture as a "journalist" is epitomized in her response to Michael Hastings' report on General McChrystal:

Logan stated that the Rolling Stone reporter violated an "unspoken agreement" that journalists are not supposed to "embarrass [the troops] by reporting insults and banter."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/28/lara-logan-slams-michael_n_627601.html

Needless to say, it's literally impossible to imagine Amira Hass or Robert Fisk -- or any genuine journalist -- adopting Lara Logan's servile posture toward government authority -- and that's why Hass and Fisk are infinitely more valuable journalists than Lara Logan.


Fortuntely, it's not up to you to determine the meaning of words in the English language, as is evident from the fact that most of the world, especially including many people (including me) who know a hell of a lot more about journalism than you do, considers these people to be exemplary journalists, and infinitely more valuable journalists than Lara Logan who may or may not have written a few articles years ago and has written no books.

If you were more intelligent and honest, you'd just say that while Fisk and Hass are journalists, you don't like their journalism because it's too challenging for your taste. It's OK, however -- I understand what you're getting at.

[Truth Teller]

I don't agree with Fisk.

A true journalist is not an advocate ,a advocate is a pundit or a commentator.

I don't know about Fisk's entire career ,it's possible he engnaged a real journalism and derserved his awards for that.

And I've said one million times that I disagree with Logan on Hastings ,though I also think she made some good points on that subject and I can understand where she was coming from.

But she wasn't being a journalist who was reporting on that issue,she was a private citizen giving her opinion about a controversy in her profession,and she was careful to say it was her opinion,not a fact.

[Guido]

I don't agree with Fisk.

You don't agree with Fisk?

About what? The weather? His existence?

This is hopeless. Forget it.

[Truth Teller]

I don't agree with him about his personal definition of "journalism". :doh:

[Guido]

I don't agree with him about his personal definition of "journalism". :doh:

Do you disagree with the people and institutions who gave Fisk more British and International Journalism awards than any other foreign correspondent?

Or have you now revised your earlier view that Fisk is "not a journalist"?

You did say that Fisk used to be a journalist in the past. When exactly did he case being a journalist?

[Truth Teller]

Do you disagree with the people and institutions who gave Fisk more British and International Journalism awards than any other foreign correspondent?

Or have you now revised your earlier view that Fisk is "not a journalist"?

You did say that Fisk used to be a journalist in the past. When exactly did he case being a journalist?

Guido,you are deliberately taking what I said out of context (as you always do) ,that is not debate ,that is simply being a troll,like the infamous Snouter.

[Truth Teller]

And what is your attutude about people who are dispossessed,abused,oppressed,disenfranchised and killed in the jihadist nations you support?

I've yet to see you show any concern about the victims of misogyny and anti-Semitism in those nations.

Hey Guido ,I'm still waiting for an answer to this.