Iraq has accused the United States of wanting U.N. arms inspectors to return to update intelligence information for a possible attack to oust President Saddam Hussein.

Foreign Minister Naji Sabri said Washington wants to topple the Iraqi government and install "a puppet regime" to control its oil, the world's second-largest reserve.

"The U.S. has an eye on Iraqi oil," he said in an interview with Reuters.

"They would come to this country, including U.S. spies, Israeli spies and British spies," Sabri said of U.N. inspectors who have been barred from Iraq since December 1998.

Washington and London launched a bombing campaign against Iraq in 1998 because of Baghdad's alleged failure to cooperate with the inspectors.

Iraq said at the time that the inspection teams had contained spies and it now says the same would happen should they allow inspectors to return.

"Those spies would update information about civilian, economic installations as well as security and military positions and give this data to U.S. intelligence and military bodies so as to use them in attacking Iraq," he said.

"The U.S. and British governments want to attack Iraq and intervene in its affairs and dream about changing its government and imposing a puppet regime on its population," Sabri said.

President Bush said this month his administration would use all tools at its disposal to topple Saddam. He has branded Iraq part of an "axis of evil" supporting terrorism and developing weapons of mass destruction.

The New York Times reported on Monday that Washington was considering taking Baghdad first and one or two command centres and arms depots to cause a quick collapse of Saddam's government.

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told a news conference on Monday that many of Iraq's chemical, biological and nuclear arms sites are "deeply buried" and would be difficult to destroy using air power alone.

"Baghdad hides its weapons, moves them and knows U.S. secrets for detecting them," Rumsfeld said.

Sabri said Iraqis would fight back against any U.S. military action.

"Iraqis are fighting against American and British colonialists for the last 12 years and if now they would expand their aggression all Iraqi people will fight to defend their freedom, independence and dignity against a colonial invasion."

Sabri said any talks with the United Nations on the return of inspectors should also focus on lifting 12-year-old sanctions and the U.S. and British enforced "no-fly" zones in southern and northern Iraq, imposed by the West after the 1991 Gulf War.

Sabri and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan have met for three rounds of talks but failed to reach an agreement on the return of the U.N. arms experts.

Resuming weapons inspections is key to suspending U.N. sanctions, imposed after Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990.

Iraqi analyst Dilip Hiro told CNN that a U.S. attack could bring problems -- including civil war.

"Iraq is split three ways. The Shias, who support Iran, would break away and the Kurds would split away. It would break up the country."

Hiro said that another thing to remember was that Iraq had the second largest oil reserves.

"Could you imagine what happens to the American economy and the stock market if the oil from Iraq goes kaput?"
www.cnn.com

i dont disagree that the we're probably just after the oil. we sure did it proficiantly in afghanistan.

If its war Bush wants then I say lets piss China off a little bit. They have screwed us around, killed more Americans than Iraq ever will.

Hello????
This guy has used NBC weapons and recent evidence shows he was trying to buy some kind of tubes for uranium....for building nukes.
Should we wait until he has them and launches one at whoever he is mad at?
He has violated his agreement terms in the surrender.
He's got to be taken out...sooner rather than later.
Its unpleasant but its just got to be before he kills even larger numbers of people.

Originally posted by Powerboss
Hello????
This guy has used NBC weapons and recent evidence shows he was trying to buy some kind of tubes for uranium....for building nukes.
Should we wait until he has them and launches one at whoever he is mad at?
He has violated his agreement terms in the surrender.
He's got to be taken out...sooner rather than later.
Its unpleasant but its just got to be before he kills even larger numbers of people.

I have no doubt the guy is trying his best to build the bomb, however, he still needs a delivery system even if he builds one.
He is not insane, therfore unlikely in my opinion to embark on an endeavor that will result in he and his young nations certain annihilation. And exactly who and what are we protecting anyway? Ourselves? Oil supplies? Jews? He has many enemies, eventhough we are probably at the top of the list.

Not to dwell on the past, but we should have taken care of this biz 12 years ago when his guts were hated equally on all sides, at a time when our allies might have footed the bill for us. Of course, this won't be the first time we have invaded a nation to oust a leader that we essentially created. Noriega comes to mind. A guy on my high school basketball team lost his entire leg in that one before his remaining foot ever touched the ground.

I could be way, way off, but it seems to me that all of this posturing by the Bush administration about a possible millitary invasion of Iraq is a bit too predictable, and not very hush, hush. I have no doubt such a mission would be successfull but I believe Bush knows the price tag is too high, the support lacking and will somehow use to his own political advantage, the inevitable failure of such an operation to ever develop. In a way, it doesn't make sense to dispose of the bastard since every administration needs a villian to launch missles at from time to time.

can't disagree with saddam. in this instance, he IS right.

Originally posted by Joe
i dont disagree that the we're probably just after the oil. we sure did it proficiantly in afghanistan.

Just how much oil does Afghi control?:bs:

Originally posted by 86Dude


I have no doubt the guy is trying his best to build the bomb, however, he still needs a delivery system even if he builds one.
He is not insane, therfore unlikely in my opinion to embark on an endeavor that will result in he and his young nations certain annihilation. And exactly who and what are we protecting anyway? Ourselves? Oil supplies? Jews? He has many enemies, eventhough we are probably at the top of the list.

Not to dwell on the past, but we should have taken care of this biz 12 years ago when his guts were hated equally on all sides, at a time when our allies might have footed the bill for us. Of course, this won't be the first time we have invaded a nation to oust a leader that we essentially created. Noriega comes to mind. A guy on my high school basketball team lost his entire leg in that one before his remaining foot ever touched the ground.

I could be way, way off, but it seems to me that all of this posturing by the Bush administration about a possible millitary invasion of Iraq is a bit too predictable, and not very hush, hush. I have no doubt such a mission would be successfull but I believe Bush knows the price tag is too high, the support lacking and will somehow use to his own political advantage, the inevitable failure of such an operation to ever develop. In a way, it doesn't make sense to dispose of the bastard since every administration needs a villian to launch missles at from time to time.

I respectfully disagree, it is possible he is insane, acts like it sometimes, is at least evil.

We would be better off taking out Iraq first, and then dealing with China.

Originally posted by mrWr0ng
can't disagree with saddam. in this instance, he IS right.

And you KNOW this how?

Originally posted by Cosmo


Just how much oil does Afghi control?:bs:

Not for Afghan oil....but to build a pipeline THROUGH afghanistan...

it's pretty common knowledge that big oil desired to lay a pipe through afghanistan to get a line from the caspian sea to the indian sea, and the quickest way to do it was through afghanistan. and the taliban wasn't too keen on the idea, and the best way to get around that was to replace the government with a western friendly government.

Waht Pipeline are you speaking about, there is none being built there is there?

Maybe Malcolm X is not in your history book, because as you say in your sig, he tried, but didn't do much. He should be mentioned, at least for his terrible racism and message of hate.:topic:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1984459.stm

WOW THIS WAS SO DIFFICULT TO FIND THAT IT TOOK ME ALL OF 2 SECONDS TO DO A GOOGLE SEARCH ON THE WORDS "PIPELINE" AND "AFGHANISTAN" AND TAKE THE FIRST ENTRY THAT I FOUND.
MAN, THINKING FOR MYSELF IS VERY DIFFICULT.

There is no pipe3line under construction in Afghi is there?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1984459.stm

Afghanistan plans gas pipeline

Afghanistan hopes to strike a deal later this month to build a $2bn pipeline through the country to take gas from energy-rich Turkmenistan to Pakistan and India.
Afghan interim ruler Hamid Karzai is to hold talks with his Pakistani and Turkmenistan counterparts later this month on Afghanistan's biggest foreign investment project, said Mohammad Alim Razim, minister for Mines and Industries told Reuters.

"The work on the project will start after an agreement is expected to be struck at the coming summit," Mr Razim said.

The construction of the 850-kilometre pipeline had been previously discussed between Afghanistan's former Taliban regime, US oil company Unocal and Bridas of Argentina.

The project was abandoned after the US launched missile attacks on Afghanistan in 1999.

US company preferred

Mr Razim said US energy company Unocal was the "lead company" among those that would build the pipeline, which would bring 30bn cubic meters of Turkmen gas to market annually.

Unocal - which led a consortium of companies from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Japan and South Korea - has maintained the project is both economically and technically feasible once Afghan stability was secured.

"Unocal is not involved in any projects (including pipelines) in Afghanistan, nor do we have any plans to become involved, nor are we discussing any such projects," a spokesman told BBC News Online.

The US company formally withdrew from the consortium in 1998.

"The Afghan side assures all sides about the security of the pipeline and will take all responsibilities for it," Mr Razim said.

Reconstructing

Afghanistan plans to build a road linking Turkmenistan with Pakistan parallel to the pipeline, to supply nearby villages with gas, and also to pump Afghan gas for export, Mr Razim said.

The government would also earn transit fees from the export of gas and oil and hoped to take over ownership of the pipeline after 30 years, he said.

The Asian Development Bank (ADB) has been surveying routes for transferring local gas from northern Afghan areas to Kabul, and to iron ore mines at the Haji Gak pass further west.

"ADB will announce its conclusion soon," Mr Razim said.

The pipeline is expected to be built with funds from donor countries for the reconstruction of Afghanistan as well as ADB loans, he said.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mrWr0ng
can't disagree with saddam. in this instance, he IS right. [/QUOTE


And you KNOW this how?:bs:

Originally posted by Cosmo
There is no pipe3line under construction in Afghi is there?

well usually a cross country pipeline takes a little time to get started for things like planning and such.

Originally posted by Cosmo


I respectfully disagree, it is possible he is insane, acts like it sometimes, is at least evil.

We would be better off taking out Iraq first, and then dealing with China.

Yep, he's evil no question about it, but as humans we often make the mistake of labeling someone insane just because we simply cannot come to terms with the evil they do. I have no way of knowing for certain, but I don't believe he is.

I was thinking about this earlier. If, in fact, if he is nearly nuclear capable, then the stakes will definitely be much higher once that capability is attained. Definitel a lot harder to dispose of him with the possibility of him lighting off a nuke. I don't know for sure what we should do, but I do think to a large degree we have made are own mess and are facing the consequences.

Originally posted by Joe


well usually a cross country pipeline takes a little time to get started for things like planning and such.

Ok, so how does that fact mean we fought the war to build the pipeline? As it was said earlier, this was first proposed back in the eighties. If it was a good idea then, why isn't it a good idea now?

because we didn't have an excuse to go blow up the taliban. with 9/11, we did.

Cosmo, this is called assembling some of the facts to fit your agenda.
"Its all about oil" has been a common mantra of the America Hating left and they try to tie every action to oil.
Im glad we can now build a pipeline, that puts more on the market, which lowers prices to consumers. But its a positive byproduct of liberating Afghanistan.
If a byproduct of liberating Iraq is putting more oil into the market, prices of oil will lower to consumers.
And as you well know Cosmo, we even have some radical leftists saying that Bush intentiionally let 9/11 happen so we could attack Afghanistan to replace the govt so they could build the pipeline
Typical, you radical leftist have everything completely backwards.


The fact he is a madman and is developing nukes, and will no doubt use them, is all irrelivant to radical leftists, as he is a peaceful muslim and everything that has ever happened anywhere, anytime, EVER, is because of Evil America. Please remember that Cosmo.

Cosmo got schooled yet he still denies the truth, amazing how ignorant most Americans are..

I've proved this over and over again that we are there for that pipeline ONLY, all you need to do is a search. It was kind of funny to hear Bush say he is no longer concerned with catching Bin Laden right after the pipeline deal went through. Yet on 9-11 he was going to find him "dead or alive" no matter what. Now Iraq is the big boogieman to take out, great more oil.

Originally posted by Powerboss
Cosmo, this is called assembling some of the facts to fit your agenda.
"Its all about oil" has been a common mantra of the America Hating left and they try to tie every action to oil.
Im glad we can now build a pipeline, that puts more on the market, which lowers prices to consumers. But its a positive byproduct of liberating Afghanistan.
If a byproduct of liberating Iraq is putting more oil into the market, prices of oil will lower to consumers.
And as you well know Cosmo, we even have some radical leftists saying that Bush intentiionally let 9/11 happen so we could attack Afghanistan to replace the govt so they could build the pipeline
Typical, you radical leftist have everything completely backwards.


The fact he is a madman and is developing nukes, and will no doubt use them, is all irrelivant to radical leftists, as he is a peaceful muslim and everything that has ever happened anywhere, anytime, EVER, is because of Evil America. Please remember that Cosmo.


:bs: :bs: Full of it as usual..


If it was Al Gore in office right now you'd agreeing with us. You're just blinded by the right. Typical of most radical Rightist fascists..

If it was Al Gore in office right now you'd agreeing with us. You're just blinded by the right. Typical of most radical Rightist fascists..

We'd be in greater trouble if Algore was in office.
I would not agree with radical lefists if he were in office.
Its a ridiculous, backwards, garbage. But since it fits your agenda of "get Bush", you use it.
WHo cares about the facts? Right? As long as you can twist things around to fit a giant conspiracy and further try to discredit and dishonor this country that you seem to hate so much, thats whats important.
The fact that Saddam is a psycho and will use nukes if he has them is irrelivant.
The fact that the Taliban allowed and sanctioned terrorism is irrelivant.
Whats relevant to you is that someone wanted to build a pipeline.
Id say your priorities are FUBAR.

ya know... I'd be willing to be that the US govt. had something to do with those airplanes crashing into the world trade center too.

I wonder how much the aliens paid those oppressed muslims who piloted those airplanes into those buildings.

The world may never know.......

>If it was Al Gore in office right now you'd agreeing with us.<

And the question is.. if Gore were in office would YOU still be spouting this crap?

Havent you seen the evidence RWZ?
That has already been established by some far left publications.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by RightWingZealot
ya know... I'd be willing to be that the US govt. had something to do with those airplanes crashing into the world trade center too.

I wonder how much the aliens paid those oppressed muslims who piloted those airplanes into those buildings.

The world may never know.......


Are you saying the feds who knew about it wouldn't turn a blind eye? I remember a time not long ago when Oswald called off the secret service one day, did Osama do something similar on 9-11?

Do you remember Northwoods or can we just chalk another one up to ingnorance for ya?

Originally posted by RightWingZealot
And the question is.. if Gore were in office would YOU still be spouting this crap?


Excellent!

As I pointed out in a different thread. He claims he hates the Dems as much but in the 3-4 years I've known him online, I cant recall ONE, thats right, ONE article specifically directed and critical of Clinton or Algore.
Of course I could be wrong, but I have a pretty good memory, and I have asked him about this before, and have never gotten a response.

Notice with Enron...as facts are coming out showing that Liebermand, Ruebin are important figures in this scam, he now ignores it.

Originally posted by RightWingZealot
>If it was Al Gore in office right now you'd agreeing with us.<

And the question is.. if Gore were in office would YOU still be spouting this crap?


I would continue pushing the truth, you see I don't support Al Gore or Bush like you do.

And I challenge you to prove the facts I've posted are crap? The only crap is coming from blind Republicans that trust their government {Laughs]

Originally posted by Powerboss



Excellent!

As I pointed out in a different thread. He claims he hates the Dems as much but in the 3-4 years I've known him online, I cant recall ONE, thats right, ONE article specifically directed and critical of Clinton or Algore.
Of course I could be wrong, but I have a pretty good memory, and I have asked him about this before, and have never gotten a response.

Notice with Enron...as facts are coming out showing that Liebermand, Ruebin are important figures in this scam, he now ignores it.


I've demonstrated on the streets against Al Gore, have you??

I've responded to your stupid questions every time you've asked them, quit telling lies. Right now I'm after those that are shredding the Constitution and leading us into oil wars.

I'm not ingnoring anything with Enron, it is you that has ignored it and every other corporate scandal, crime, etc.

Its not up to him or anyone else to prove your articles wrong.
Its up to you to prove it all right, and back it up with multiple sources. You are the one making the charges, the burden lies on you.
The articles you have posted in that matter are opinion, theory, and conjecture, with a few facts sprikled in to try to make it look somewhat legitimate.
People with a reasonable IQ level can take a glance at and see it for what it is, which is pure trash.

Originally posted by Corporate Avenger



I've demonstrated on the streets against Al Gore, have you??

I've responded to your stupid questions every time you've asked them, quit telling lies. Right now I'm after those that are shredding the Constitution and leading us into oil wars.

I'm not ingnoring anything with Enron, it is you that has ignored it and every other corporate scandal, crime, etc.


What lies? What articles have you ever posted speicifically aimed at and critical of Clinton/Algore?

Ive recently posted the articles outining Rubin and Lieberman...I didnt see a response in any way from you.

Originally posted by Powerboss
Its not up to him or anyone else to prove your articles wrong.
Its up to you to prove it all right, and back it up with multiple sources. You are the one making the charges, the burden lies on you.
The articles you have posted in that matter are opinion, theory, and conjecture, with a few facts sprikled in to try to make it look somewhat legitimate.
People with a reasonable IQ level can take a glance at and see it for what it is, which is pure trash.


And everybody on this website that I consider to have a reasonable IQ agrees with me. What I have posted on the matter are undisputable facts. They ARE NOT opinion, theory, or conjecture. YOU just say that because you don't want to believe it, I believe Phsychiatrists have a term for it but I can't think of it. It's a process where someone refuses to see reality in order to protect themselves from traumatizing events. And i admit, coming to the realization that our government is as evil as they are is a scary thing. I didn't believe things like this either at first because I thought our own government would never do something like that to us. But lookingt at it with an open mind and looking at history and the suppresses news stories that the controlled media won't report shows us what tyrants we really have on capitol hill. It doesn't matter whether they call themselves Reps or Dems, they are both the enemy of our freedoms. Some get it some don't.

Im very sorry you cannot distinguish the differences between a factually truth article and an article lined with theory and conjecture.

I dont know of many here who agree with you that the US planned and orchestrated 9/11
Probably Wrong, but who else?

>And I challenge you to prove the facts I've posted are crap?<

It's your job to prove that they are facts.
You have never done this. All I have ever seen ya do is post links to wierd conspiracy theorist web-sites.
It makes for interesting reading, but how can you trust a site that has such an obvious bias against the govt?
It doesnt take any more brains to by cynical of the govt, and assume that everything they do is evil; than it does to accept everything that govt does is for our own good.

Ya know?

short from atcually going over to afghanistan and taking pictures for ourselves, there isnt much we can do in the way of proving our articles. but what we can do is post articles from reputable sources like the BBC (one somewhat not subject to what our leaders want to be said and not said). now saying that the govt planned and rchestrated 9/11 is a bit far, but if you think this "war on terrorism" is some noble campaign to rid the world of evil doers you blind. to argue "well we'd all be dead right now if al gore were president" is a stupid waste of time because he's not and we'll never know what he would have done, you cant even guess about it. as far as the "you wouldnt be spewing this crap if al gore was president" stuff again, that all depends on a situation that we will never know because it can never happen. if in fact he were doing the same things as bush (read: the bush administration. does anyone really think he is actually in control?) yes most of the people arguing against bush would be saying the same against gore. from what i can tell most of the "leftist" here realize the fact that there is little to no difference between the 2 parties and arent blinded by political allegance. the only difference is we would be agreeing with powerboss cosmo and rightwingzealot (if i didnt include anyother rightwinger too bad your name didnt come to mind...)

Originally posted by Corporate Avenger
Cosmo got schooled yet he still denies the truth, amazing how ignorant most Americans are..

I've proved this over and over again that we are there for that pipeline ONLY, all you need to do is a search. It was kind of funny to hear Bush say he is no longer concerned with catching Bin Laden right after the pipeline deal went through. Yet on 9-11 he was going to find him "dead or alive" no matter what. Now Iraq is the big boogieman to take out, great more oil.

But I am not as smart as you keep telling us you are, so try to be a little more tolerant. And I think I read most of what you posted on the subject of 9-11, but you posted opinions and not proof. If there was the slightest chance of what you say being true, Hillary would be all over it so she can be president. And since we know she is the smartest woman in the world, are you saying you are even smarter than Hillary?

BTW, did you ever follow up on those brutal police you identified on July 4th? I was kind of hoping you'd share your crusade.

Originally posted by Cosmo

Maybe Malcolm X is not in your history book, because as you say in your sig, he tried, but didn't do much. He should be mentioned, at least for his terrible racism and message of hate.:topic:

:topic:

Malik's terrible racism and message of hate is just so evident in this letter...

Letter from Makkah

Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and the overwhelming spirit of true brotherhood as practiced by people of all colors and races here in this Ancient Holy Land, the home of Abraham, Muhammad and all other prophets of the Holy Scriptures.For the past week, I have been utterly speechless and spellbound by the graciousness I see displayed all around me by people of all colors.

I have been blessed to visit the Holy City of Mecca. I have made my seven circuits around the Ka'ba, led by a young Mutawaf named Muhammad. I drank water from the well of Zem Zem. I ran seven times back and forth between the hills of Mt. Al-Safa and Al-Marwah. I have prayed in the ancient city of Mina, and I have prayed on Mt. Arafat.

There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue eyed blonds to black skin Africans. But we were all participating in the same rituals, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had lead me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white.

America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have considered 'white' -- but the 'white' attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color.

You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to re-arrange much of my thought patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have always been a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experiences and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth.

During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass, and slept in the same bed, (or on the same rug) -- while praying to the same God -- with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the same words and in the actions and in the deeds of the 'white' Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana.

We were truly all the same (brothers) -- because their belief in one God had removed the 'white' from their minds, the 'white' from their behavior, and the 'white' from their attitude.

I could see from this, that perhaps if white Americans could accept the Oneness of God, then perhaps, too, they could accept in reality the Oneness of Man -- and cease to measure, and hinder, and harm others in terms of their differences in color.

With racism plauging America like an incurable cancer, the so-called 'Christian' white American heart should be more receptive to a proven solution to such a destructive problem. Perhaps it could be in time to save America from imminent disaster -- the same destruction brought upon Germany by racism that eventually destroyed the Germans themselves.

Each hour here in the Holy Land enables me to have greater spiritual insights into what is happening in America between black and white. The American Negro never can be blamed for his racial animosities -- he is only reacting to four hundred years of conscious racism of the American whites. But as racism leads America up the suicide path, I do believe, from the experience that I have had with them, that the whites of the younger generation, in the colleges and universities, will see the handwriting on the wall and many of them will turn to the spiritual path of truth -- the only way left to America to ward off the disaster that racism inevitably must lead to.

Never have I been so highly honored. Never have I been made to feel more humble and unworthy. Who would believe the blessings that have been heaped upon an American Negro? A few nights ago, a man who would be called in America a 'white' man, a United Nations diplomat, an ambassador, a companion of kings, gave me his hotel suite, his bed. By this man, His Excellency Prince Faisal, who rules this Holy Land, was made aware of my presence here in Jedda. The very next morning, Prince Faisal's son, in person, informed me that by the will and decree of his esteemed father, I was to be a State Guest.

The deputy Chief of Protocol himself took me before the Hajj Court. His Holiness Sheikh Muhammad Harkon himself okayed my visit to Mecca. His Holiness gave me two books on Islam, with his personal seal and autograph, and he told me that he prayed that I would be a successful preacher of Islam in America. A car, a driver, and a guide, have been placed at my disposal, making it possible for me to travel about this Holy Land almost at will. The government provides air conditioned quarters and servants in each city that I visit. Never would I have even thought of dreaming that I would ever be a recipient of such honors -- honors that in America would be bestowed upon a King -- not a Negro.

All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of all the Worlds.

Sincerely,

El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (Malcom X)



:topic:


Cosmo, Cosmo, Cosmo......:rolleyes:

Kareem , would you like to compare quotes? Your not going to tell me he wan't a violent racist are you? What good did Malcom the Tenth ever do? Besides getting himself offed by one of his own thugs.

Originally posted by Joe
short from atcually going over to afghanistan and taking pictures for ourselves, there isnt much we can do in the way of proving our articles. but what we can do is post articles from reputable sources like the BBC (one somewhat not subject to what our leaders want to be said and not said). now saying that the govt planned and rchestrated 9/11 is a bit far, but if you think this "war on terrorism" is some noble campaign to rid the world of evil doers you blind. to argue "well we'd all be dead right now if al gore were president" is a stupid waste of time because he's not and we'll never know what he would have done, you cant even guess about it. as far as the "you wouldnt be spewing this crap if al gore was president" stuff again, that all depends on a situation that we will never know because it can never happen. if in fact he were doing the same things as bush (read: the bush administration. does anyone really think he is actually in control?) yes most of the people arguing against bush would be saying the same against gore. from what i can tell most of the "leftist" here realize the fact that there is little to no difference between the 2 parties and arent blinded by political allegance. the only difference is we would be agreeing with powerboss cosmo and rightwingzealot (if i didnt include anyother rightwinger too bad your name didnt come to mind...)

So you dont' agree with KA that the gov planned and carried out 9-11? Good, its a start. Why would you wnat to go to Afghi, what pictures would you watn to take? I was there in the 80's, have some photos.,, would that help?

I do think we are engaged in a war, saw the towers go down with my own eyes, smelled it for days. Its not just terorism we are fighting, not just terrorists, we are in a culture war.

Originally posted by Cosmo
Kareem , would you like to compare quotes? Your not going to tell me he wan't a violent racist are you? What good did Malcom the Tenth ever do? Besides getting himself offed by one of his own thugs.

violent...never.....racist..at one point...but did he evolve and did his ideas change...yes..

and Malik did alot of things good...and he was offed by thugs backed the govt.

if you all want to discuss Mr. X... please do so in another thread

:D

Originally posted by Cosmo


So you dont' agree with KA that the gov planned and carried out 9-11? Good, its a start. Why would you wnat to go to Afghi, what pictures would you watn to take? I was there in the 80's, have some photos.,, would that help?

I do think we are engaged in a war, saw the towers go down with my own eyes, smelled it for days. Its not just terorism we are fighting, not just terrorists, we are in a culture war.


i never said i would want to go there, i said that would be the only way prove our sources truthful 100% since thier word obviously isnt enough. yes we are engaged in a war obviously. and what is point of this culture war as you put it? to make everyone like americans? it seems to me that if its our culture against thiers the only way to win would be conversion of thier culture to ours. even if its true that the war is a culture war and not an oil war bush is still lying about it.

Originally posted by Powerboss
Im very sorry you cannot distinguish the differences between a factually truth article and an article lined with theory and conjecture.

I dont know of many here who agree with you that the US planned and orchestrated 9/11
Probably Wrong, but who else?


It's clear you don't read the stuff I post then, the whole deal with Afghhanistan isn't some wild conspiracy theory. What I have posted about the pipeline deal through Afghanistan has come from either government, corporate, or easily verifiable sources. The testimony of Unocals CEO I posted in the past was taken from a government website. It was not an editorial or an opinion from anyone. It was his words only. All the rest of the facts about Afghanistan are simply putting two and two together. 2 plus 2 equals 4, all the facts about Afghanistan equals we're there for the pipeline, OBL is just a bonus if we ever catch him.

Since you are disputing my sources I will take the irrefutable stuff from some of my old posts and re-post them here later for you to see.

I don't think the whole entire US government planned an orchestrated 9-11. I'm still looking for the absolute truth which might never come out. Especially with the gov. trying to do away with the Freedom of information act now. I believe either higher up criminal elements in the CIA and the White house knew what was going to happen and "turned the other cheek" or dark elements in the CIA helped to an extent. There are far too many facts that point this out. You can call them conspiracy theories if you wish, I'm sure people told those who saif Oswald wasn't the shooter that they wre too "conspiracy theorists". Operation Northwoods shows that there are elements in our government that would do exactly like I've said. We just need to look at history. There are so many things that don't make sense or don't jive with the official story. We are being lied to and I will not take it. I don't care what I'm called, I'm out for the truth. Mainstream corporate media has been lying to us for decades. They can never be trusted, why all of a sudden are we supposed to take their words as Gospel?

Im not disputing a pipeline....I think its a great idea in fact and hope they get it done as it will create jobs and put more gas/oil in the market.

What I dispute is the point that we assisted or planned 9/11 by helping or purposely ignoring the warning signs (as you have charged), in order to have a reason to remove the Taliban to build this pipeline.

What happened re 9/11 and our failure is several reasons.
1) Poor intelligence....defanged and deballed by democrats over the years led by Sen John Kerry who had the nerve to try to blame the now apparrant inadequecies of those organizations on Bush when it rests in his lap.
And the bohemeth buerocracy......

2) Political correctness....had we issued warnings about possible muslim terrorists, the race card would most definetly have been played, as it is being played now by many including some members here, and considering the bad press the FBI has been getting for the past several years, they were petrified to open thier mouths.
The airlines had policys that even though some of them were flagged by the system, they were afraid to do anything out of fear of lawsuits of racism and civil rights.

3) Not taking care of this when we shouldve. Clinton had the opportunity to have Bin Ladin handed over to him and we said no, at least twice.
Clinton also vowed to get him and his effort consisted of a few cruise missiles.

Originally posted by Corporate Avenger



It's clear you don't read the stuff I post then, the whole deal with Afghhanistan isn't some wild conspiracy theory. What I have posted about the pipeline deal through Afghanistan has come from either government, corporate, or easily verifiable sources. The testimony of Unocals CEO I posted in the past was taken from a government website. It was not an editorial or an opinion from anyone. It was his words only. All the rest of the facts about Afghanistan are simply putting two and two together. 2 plus 2 equals 4, all the facts about Afghanistan equals we're there for the pipeline, OBL is just a bonus if we ever catch him.

Since you are disputing my sources I will take the irrefutable stuff from some of my old posts and re-post them here later for you to see.

I don't think the whole entire US government planned an orchestrated 9-11. I'm still looking for the absolute truth which might never come out. Especially with the gov. trying to do away with the Freedom of information act now. I believe either higher up criminal elements in the CIA and the White house knew what was going to happen and "turned the other cheek" or dark elements in the CIA helped to an extent. There are far too many facts that point this out. You can call them conspiracy theories if you wish, I'm sure people told those who saif Oswald wasn't the shooter that they wre too "conspiracy theorists". Operation Northwoods shows that there are elements in our government that would do exactly like I've said. We just need to look at history. There are so many things that don't make sense or don't jive with the official story. We are being lied to and I will not take it. I don't care what I'm called, I'm out for the truth. Mainstream corporate media has been lying to us for decades. They can never be trusted, why all of a sudden are we supposed to take their words as Gospel?

I don't dispute the quotes from Unocal, I dispute what you take them as proof of. NO SANE BUSINESS MAN WOULD INVEST IN A COUNTRY WITH AN UNSTABLE GOV'T. This goes for Venezuela, Nigeria, adn so on.

The pipeline is a great idea, but you cna't build it in a country like TalibaN Afghi.

Originally posted by Joe



i never said i would want to go there, i said that would be the only way prove our sources truthful 100% since thier word obviously isnt enough. yes we are engaged in a war obviously. and what is point of this culture war as you put it? to make everyone like americans? it seems to me that if its our culture against thiers the only way to win would be conversion of thier culture to ours. even if its true that the war is a culture war and not an oil war bush is still lying about it.

Since the war was started by Islam, the point would be to destroy America. It now may have to be the other way around, but it is what it is. I base this on the pronouncements of Islams "holy" leaders. Not all, but many. It is a jihad, a holy war, I dont' know how else to interpret it.

What is Bush lying about? I dont' follow that part at all. Maybe you can clear it up?

bush in many cases has said that its not a war against islam, but you say it is. one of you has to be lying.

Not neccessarily. It is a war against terrorism, or Al Qaeda and some other terrorist organizations. Some of these will inevitably seek assylum in another country which we will then have to invade in defiance of the UN and Int'l LaW, AS A MATTER OF SELF PRESERVATION.

In my opinion, ( I can't and wouldn't speak for Bush) MOST (not all) of Islam is at war with the US, we just havent recognized it yet. To a Muslim, there is no diffference bewteen politics and religion. It is their culture. In everry case where Muslims become the majority they turn to a muslim gov't, sometimes a fundamentalist one.

Cleared up now? Or is one of us still lying.

What do you think it is Joe?

Bush is playing it safe and trying to be PC because he's a wuss, but this is a war against radical Islam.

Originally posted by RightWingZealot
>And I challenge you to prove the facts I've posted are crap?<

It's your job to prove that they are facts.


Been there, done that. You either ignore them or you just say they are crazy because they don't fit into your beliefs.


You have never done this.


So you say, you have never dis-proven anything. Calling them conspiracy theories and nuts doesn't dis-prove the facts.



All I have ever seen ya do is post links to wierd conspiracy theorist web-sites.


Could you PLEASE point out one of these "weird conspiracy theory websites"? I use many mainstream media sources, actually much more than most conservatives on this board who only post stuff from websites such as "Frontpagemagazine" or the "National review". I'm thinking you don't even look at any of the links I post. For example: Operation Northwoods was reported by ABC news. Do you consider ABC's website a "conspiracy theory website"??



It makes for interesting reading, but how can you trust a site that has such an obvious bias against the govt?


I don't know which site you are speaking of but I wouldn't call it a "bias against the government", I'd call it a search for the truth.
Anyone who investigates the US government will find out how corrupt they are. The real question should be.. "Who would trust the word of the government who lies to us about everything"...??



It doesnt take any more brains to by cynical of the govt, and assume that everything they do is evil; than it does to accept everything that govt does is for our own good.


I don't think everything they do is evil, a whole lot of it is Evil, bad, whatever you want to call it. Why some can't see it I don't know, whether it's apathy, carelessness, etc.. But I'm sorry, anybody who believes everything those self serving bastards do is for our own good can't be too bright. Why be pc about it..?
[/QUOTE]

Originally posted by Corporate Avenger
"Who would trust the word of the government who lies to us about everything"...??

I don't think everything they do is evil, a whole lot of it is Evil, bad, whatever you want to call it. Why some can't see it I don't know, whether it's apathy, carelessness, etc.. But I'm sorry, anybody who believes everything those self serving bastards do is for our own good can't be too bright. Why be pc about it..?
[/QUOTE]

You say they lie about everything, but not everythng they do is not evil. Seems to be a contradiction.

I know the gove't is capable of doing some pretty stupid things, even the President has done some evil things in my NSHO. (Remember selling state secrets for campaign donations?) The gov'et is run buy humans who are capble of anything, but i dont believe Bush and the gov;'t engineered 9-11. I do think that theory is nuts.

Originally posted by Cosmo


You say they lie about everything, but not everythng they do is not evil. Seems to be a contradiction.


Just because somebody lies about something doesn't make it evil. Everything they do always has an ulterior motive, everything statement they release has some sort of spin..

I know the gove't is cakpable of dointg soem pretty stupod things, even thee President has done some evil things in my NSHO. (Remember selling state secrets for campaign donations?) Teh gov'et is run buy humans who are capble of anything, but i dont believe Bush and the gov;'t engineered 9-11. I do think that theory is nuts.


Or looked the other way? Or took an opportunistc hold of it?

Or armed the Contras? Or push the drug war? Is it any surprise they'd let American citizens get in harms way to push an agenda? Looking at history governments have always done it. Somehow our tyrants are above these things? Did the Romans, the Germans, the Russians also think so??