Not too wild about either of these sources, but I'm curious if anyone else thinks this makes sense. If it is, katie bar the door, we'll be out of Iraq with our tail between our legs so fast it'll make Bill Kristol cry. :rolleyes:


Turkey in the throes of Islamic revolution?
By Spengler

Turkey is half pregnant with political Islam, if one believes Western foreign ministries and the mainstream press. Its Islamist government last week arrested 82 alleged coup plotters from Turkey's military and intellectual elite, on the strength of a secret indictment of 2,445 pages. Turkish media have offered fanciful allegations linking the secular leaders of the alleged "Ergenekon" plot to al-Qaeda as well as the violent Kurdish Workers' Party. Among those detailed are pillars of the secular establishment, including the head of the Ankara Chamber of Commerce and the Ankara editor of the country's leading daily newspaper, Cumhuriyet.

continued (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JG22Ak02.html)






Crisis in Turkey

The news from Turkey is terrible, and the US State Department thinks it is good news.

Since the US is, for many reasons, committed to an alliance with Israel, our options in the Middle East are limited. Note I make no comment on the Israel Alliance: it is as much a fact as the daily sunrise, and it is not going to change without tearing the nation apart.

But it limits our options as to allies. Given the reality of the US-Israel alliance, our choices of other allies in the Middle East were in effect confined to: The Shah of Iran (but not the mullahs); Saddam Hussein and the Baathist party; and the Kemalist Secularists in Turkey (but not necessarily the people of Turkey). For a while we could cultivate the multi-party coalition in Lebanon, but when we failed to support that regime by sufficient force -- a combat brigade would have done -- but we didn't send that, and when we lost those Marines in the barracks explosion we abandoned Lebanon to its fate.

continued (http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/2008/Q3/view528.html) - this site is poorly organized, you need to scroll down

Ataturk established a secular government and thats was a while ago and things change-they always do...young people dont think like old people...this is not a bong hit post...

i dont think its this black /white, eigheter for or against a seculair state. in turkye, theres many fanatical groups, from commies to facists to turkish rebels, that don bomb attacks and want power. this one seems to be an ultra-nationalist group (bunch of facists)




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7521463.stm

Turkey makes 'coup plot' arrests

Police in Turkey have arrested a further 20 people over a suspected plot to overthrow the government, according to Turkish media reports.

The arrests are part of an ongoing investigation into a shadowy ultra-nationalist group known as Ergenekon.

Eighty-six people have already been charged with involvement in the group.

The latest arrests took place in five provinces around the country, according to the Anatolia news agency, including 12 people in Konya province.

Other arrests took place in Istanbul, neighbouring Kocaeli, the eastern province of Elazig and Mersin, on the Mediterranean coast.

Among those detained were three senior members of a small leftist party and a journalist.

Court case

The indictment announced earlier this month against the 86 suspects includes charges of creating an "armed terrorist organisation", attempting to use violence to oust the government and fomenting an armed rebellion.

Another 21 people were arrested this month as part of the same probe, including two retired high-ranking military generals.

The police investigation against Ergenekon was launched in June 2007 after explosives were found in a house in Istanbul.

Prosecutors say the group is behind a series of violent acts including the bombing of a secular newspaper and an armed attack on a court - attacks they say were designed to provoke a response by nationalists, and a coup by the army.

But the opposition says that the arrests are political retaliation for a case brought against Turkey's governing AK Party.

The AK Party risks being outlawed if the constitutional court decides it is violating the country's secular constitution by trying to impose Sharia law in Turkey, a claim denied by the party.

The AK Party risks being outlawed if the constitutional court decides it is violating the country's secular constitution by trying to impose Sharia law in Turkey, a claim denied by the party.

The largest political party in Turkey is clearly pro-Islamist, oki. What is not so clear, I grant, is that they're trying to impose some variant of Sharia law on the country. But this is still a huge shift from the past when the majority at least went along with the ideas of secularlism.