So, the House passed a bailout for homeowners in foreclosure and Bush says he'll sign it.

What other bad decision-making should we reward? How about giving tax dollars to people who make the questionable decision to buy a huge gas-guzzling SUV when prices were lower than today? Those people are hurting!

Maybe you can come up with something else to bail out?

If you want to bring down a nation this is the best way to do it . Make the citizens rely on the gov's tits and then when the weaklings are full, fat and lazy, sock it to them ! :)

Fock homeowners, fock bush, and most of all fock Fannie Mae And Freddie Big Mac. Let it all rot.

So, the House passed a bailout for homeowners in foreclosure and Bush says he'll sign it.

What other bad decision-making should we reward? How about giving tax dollars to people who make the questionable decision to buy a huge gas-guzzling SUV when prices were lower than today? Those people are hurting!

Maybe you can come up with something else to bail out?

I don't think its so much bad decision making as it was greed by the mortgage industry to make a killing making questionable loans. The mortgage industry encouraged borrowers to take loans using a lot of bad advice. Too many borrowers were allowed to make claims that were false, as income and assets claims, and the mortgage industries just looked the other way.
The only people who will make out like a bandit will be the mortgage industry who will be the beneficiary of these billion of dollars being pumped into this problem. The poor slob who made these dubious loans will still be libel.
Its nothing but another corporate bail out scheme and the tax payer will be holding the bag....dud, what's new?

What's next? Bail outs for people who lost all their money gambling in Las Vegas so they can make their house payments? http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1530/smellsst9.gif

What's next? Bail outs for people who lost all their money gambling in Las Vegas so they can make their house payments? http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1530/smellsst9.gif

You mean there is a chance I could get all back? :nice::drink:

So, what does this bailout mean for us *******s who have been saving up money waiting for the market to correct itself?

I read that in the law, for first time home owners they get a $7,500 tax rebate BUT you have to pay it back in full in installments over 15 years of your mortgage. How does that friggin help?

Must view video of the bailout...
Its all a mother****ing SCAM!
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Ironic how the feds (the taxpayers) have to foot the bill when so-called "freemarket" reforms come crashing down

Much of this can be traced to 'Foreclosure Phil' Gramm's failed experiment , the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, that allowed the banks to avert risk through the use of instruments called credit default swaps to insure the banks against bad debts , those risks were passed along to insurance companies and other investors, this was a huge departure from typical banking practice

I think this will be much worse than the S&L crisis when all is said and done .. the size of the unregulated credit default swap market is TWICE that of the entire US stock market

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/business/17swap.html?_r=1&sq=gretchen%20morgenson&st=nyt&scp=3&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

Hmmm .. the plot thickens ..

Now mind you that this is the man who helped push through The Financial Modernization Act of 1999, also known as the "Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act," which effectively repealed the Glass-Steagall Act which was passed during the Depression Era as a measure intended to avoid a repeat of the 1929 Stock Market Crash. The Glass-Steagall Act prohibited a bank from offering investment, commercial banking and insurance services, or from consolidating with other companies providing such services. The ill-advised, spurious and egregious repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act is the single most important factor driving the subprime and credit-crunch debacles because it allowed rampant fraud and outrageous conflicts of interest to develop between different financial sectors, resulting in a complete breakdown of confidence and trust in our system of finance which has been destroyed right before your eyes. "Gramm's Blunder" and "Greenspan's Folly" together have powered the fraud and deceit that made the subprime debacle possible. The passage of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, more than any other causal factor, destroyed the due diligence and integrity of the entire financial sector, and paved the way for rampant and outrageous fraud by dismantling the usual system of checks and balances.


And then there was the Commodity Futures Modernization Act which reprobate Gramm snuck through on an unsuspecting and uncomprehending Congress in the year 2000. This piece of work allowed the so-called Enron loophole which is currently being exploited by insolvent banks and other large financial institutions to speculate in oil futures. This speculation is now driving oil prices into the ozone so that these insolvent Illuminist banksters can save their balance sheets while what is left of our hapless economy is destroyed in the process, a process that will ultimately destroy the world economy as well. Mr. Gramm and his wife, Wendy, a former CFTC Chairwoman who later served on Enron's board of directors, were involved in the infamous Enron scandal up to their eyebrows. They are the ones who should have been on trial by the US government.


Even more toxic and mega-destructive than the Enron loophole is this act's deregulation of credit default swaps, which are essentially insurance policies against bond losses. Normally insurance products are regulated by the states, and this act keeps both the states and federal regulatory agencies such as the SEC and CFTC out of this arena. These swaps are what powered the subprime debacle by providing insurance to cover what might otherwise have proven to be risky investments and such insurance was used to justify the bogus AAA ratings, which lured in the unsuspecting sucker-dupes. The notional value of these swaps is in the tens of trillions of dollars and they are currently imploding as failing subprime borrowers, banks and business corporations default on their debts, adding to our current financial woes in spectacular fashion. Mr. Gramm now works for Illuminist bank UBS, which has become the biggest victim of this toxic legislation. No matter, performance is not an issue if you are an Illuminist piece of

Ignoring all the illuminist hysterics, this guy makes the connection between the Gramm-Enron loophole, the inflated price of oil AND the mortgage meltdown. Once the oil bubble bursts .. this financial shitstorm is going to get worse

sonofabitch ! :nonono:

More here: http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=2767

S1ZKqQByZQ0

Enron-Loophole / subprime link is confirmed .. the commodities desk of the international investment bank Lehman, which has been weakened by the sub-prime mess, has been put in the "penalty box" by the energy commodity firm Platts

So what the Hell is going on with Lehman's commodities desk? In the wee hours of the morning Lehman was shut out of a key energy trading window. Platts, the energy pricing company, suspended Lehman from its oil pricing window in Singapore for unknown reasons. The move will reportedly make it impossible for Lehman to trade certain oil contracts. And it all seems to be about Lehman's credit worthiness.

http://dealbreaker.com/2008/07/lehman_suspended_from_oil_trad.php

The one thing that can be bet on with certainty is that when this house of cards has finished crumbling .. the working middle class and small investors will be the ones that get hurt

I read that in the law, for first time home owners they get a $7,500 tax rebate BUT you have to pay it back in full in installments over 15 years of your mortgage. How does that friggin help?

It will if you run a mortgage company or a lending bank.....

Ignoring all the illuminist hysterics, this guy makes the connection between the Gramm-Enron loophole, the inflated price of oil AND the mortgage meltdown. Once the oil bubble bursts .. this financial shitstorm is going to get worse

The Financial Modernization Act of 1999

Didn't Bill Clinton sign this bill into law with his eyes wide open just as he signed NAFTA treaties into law a couple years before? Maybe it takes two to tangle, and you can't have a dance of one of them wants to sit it out. As far as the oil bubble bursting, didn't Clinton veto a bill to drill both off shore and in Alaska about the same time? Of course he did. If he hadn't veto that bill, we would be getting lower prices at the pump today.

Didn't Bill Clinton sign this bill into law with his eyes wide open just as he signed NAFTA treaties into law a couple years before? Maybe it takes two to tangle, and you can't have a dance of one of them wants to sit it out. As far as the oil bubble bursting, didn't Clinton veto a bill to drill both off shore and in Alaska about the same time? Of course he did. If he hadn't veto that bill, we would be getting lower prices at the pump today.

more like eyes wide shut .. it was slipped in at the last second before recess with a lame duck congress and prez .. without debate

IF ANWR was in full prodution the price at the pump would be about $.02 lower .. the speculative bubble has rasied the cost of crude 25-50% depending on the analysis

I don't think its so much bad decision making as it was greed by the mortgage industry to make a killing making questionable loans. The mortgage industry encouraged borrowers to take loans using a lot of bad advice. Too many borrowers were allowed to make claims that were false, as income and assets claims, and the mortgage industries just looked the other way.
The only people who will make out like a bandit will be the mortgage industry who will be the beneficiary of these billion of dollars being pumped into this problem. The poor slob who made these dubious loans will still be libel.
Its nothing but another corporate bail out scheme and the tax payer will be holding the bag....dud, what's new?I don't completely disagree. There is a lot of blame to go around. The thing is, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that if your take-home pay is $4000 a month, a $3500 mortgage is probably too expensive. I mean, people were getting qualified for loans with monthly payments exceeding their incomes. Ridiculous.

So, what does this bailout mean for us *******s who have been saving up money waiting for the market to correct itself?Exactly. No need to worry, though. I am skeptical that the bailout will do anything beyond just delaying the correction until after the election.

Ironic how the feds (the taxpayers) have to foot the bill when so-called "freemarket" reforms come crashing downYou're 100% correct. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

IF ANWR was in full prodution the price at the pump would be about $.02 lower .. the speculative bubble has rasied the cost of crude 25-50% depending on the analysis

Environmental and democratic talking points. And just where do you think we could get the energy supply we need right now and still be energy independent?

Are you saying its okay to continue to buy oil from the ME, who finance a terrorist network, and not drill where we can create our own energy at home? Thus creating jobs for Americans, at least until an alternative energy supply is found and developed in a quantity that can be cost efficient to produce.
Do you think buying oil from unstable countries such as Nigeria and Venezuela is good for America and for America interest? Those two countries are our biggest supplier of oil.

I little history here is needed. When oil was discovered on the North Slope this argument and others were used.
First: 'There was only about 10 year supply of oil there so it was not worth drilling'. Guess what? The fact is that was in 1978 and they are still pumping oil today.
Argument two, 'The wild life and environment would be destroyed'. Fact: The herd of Caribou around the pipe line have increased according to the native Alaskans and the state of Alaska. Those who live there and not some environmentist in California or New York City.
Argument three, 'The oil would be sold to Japan'. Fact: Only about 10% of oil from Alaska is sold on the open market, the rest is refined in Washington, Oregon and California for use in the western United States.
Fact: The Republicans have seen for at least the last 10 years that we must be more oil independed.
Fact: The democrats, backed by the environmentist, over the same time have allowed the increase of foreign oil dependency by hold up any real energy reform. Including increasing our oil refinery capacities, off shore drilling and nuclear energy.

Believe me when I tell you that the pressure on the price of oil will continue to be great as the 3rd world countries begin to emerge. Just as what happen in India and China that has help contribute to the price of gas at the pump today.

Note: Most of the oil futures are brought up by companies such as the airline industy, who must have a known price far in advance so their cost can be determined. Most of the speculators are not people out to make a buck, some but not all, but companies who have to buy in advance to keep their cost down.

Not talking points .. the $.02 gallon estimate comes from a DOE analysis

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/anwr/pdf/sroiaf(2008)03.pdf

The speculation estimates come from a variety of industry analysts who are are in rare agreement that current supply/demand cannot explain the rapid rise in crude prices

If you dont believe me .. watch the next few weeks as the crude price breaks and fund managers at lehman and goldman sachs freak when they can't make the margin call without liquidating even more funds or begging up uncle sam

Most of the oil futures are brought up by companies such as the airline industy

not true at all, they are minor players in the current futures market

btw .. When ANWR peaks .. THEN what ?

btw .. When ANWR peaks .. THEN what ?

I guess that same thing that has happened when oil in Pennsylvania, Ohio and other fields ran out, go out and look for more. I think that how oil was discovered in Oklahoma, Louisiana and Texas and a dozen other places in our own country.
However I would hope an alternative source would be found as oil from ANWR wouldn't hit the market until 7-10 years down the road if we could started drilling tomorrow. (which we won't as long as the democrats drag their heels)
If ANWR follows the amount of oil pumped from the North Slope, which has flowed for almost 30 years, you are looking at nearly 50 years supply down the road. Would ANWR oil stop the bleeding, no, but it would be an impact in the mean time and along with off shore drilling, nuclear and oil shale, we should have an enough stop gap fuel until something else is found to replace it.
Are you willing to change your life style waiting for an alternative to oil we don't have. :confused: Wind power and solar power is nothing but a pie in the sky.

Not talking points .. the $.02 gallon estimate comes from a DOE analysis

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/anwr/pdf/sroiaf(2008)03.pdf

The speculation estimates come from a variety of industry analysts who are are in rare agreement that current supply/demand cannot explain the rapid rise in crude prices

Notice it is all speculation.....:eek7:

After reading the DOE report, suggest you read the summary over again.
It say in part, 'Crude oil imports are projected to decline by one barrel for every barrel of ANWR oil production.'

It goes on to say the total oil in the ground could be about 2.6 billion barrels and between 780K to a high of 1.45 million barrels produced a day. Since the US imports about 3.3 million barrels a day, I don't see how that would only decrease gas prices only .02 cents.

Remember its all speculation and as I said this is the same thing that was said about oil production on the North Slope almost 35 years ago. :nice:

Notice it is all speculation.....:eek7:

After reading the DOE report, suggest you read the summary over again.
It say in part, 'Crude oil imports are projected to decline by one barrel for every barrel of ANWR oil production.'

It goes on to say the total oil in the ground could be about 2.6 billion barrels and between 780K to a high of 1.45 million barrels produced a day. Since the US imports about 3.3 million barrels a day, I don't see how that would only decrease gas prices only .02 cents.

Remember its all speculation and as I said this is the same thing that was said about oil production on the North Slope almost 35 years ago. :nice:

the "speculation estimates" were referring the the increase in spot market prices due to speculation .. not the effect of ANWR production

the reason the ANWR production will not have much effect is because oil is a global market .. it will be like a small dribble adding to a large river

Current US consumption is almost 21 million bbl per day (your stats are wrong we import about 12 million bbl not 3.3 million per day)

we would be better off reducing gasoline consumption by 10% , that would equal what ANWR is predicted to produce with many collateral benefits

btw .. When ANWR peaks .. THEN what ?Hopefully, by that point, we'd have alternatives up and running. Totally doable in my opinion.