Much to my dismay I have come to find out that one of my good friends is the 'other woman' in a affair. I am frightened for her.

I just dont understand WHY ppl do this. My friend tells me you would be shocked at the ppl I personally know that is doing it.

Doesn't society have any morals? I mean I thought to be married was to be commited, unconditionally.

If you dont want to be married, then get a divorce. :confused:

Any comments on this?

Originally posted by Princess

Doesn't society have any morals? I mean I thought to be married was to be commited, unconditionally.

Weak minded people have affairs.

>Weak minded people have affairs.<


weak moralled people.

80% of men and like 40% of women do this last I heard.

sad.

It really just disheartens me to realize this happens. Makes me really want to find the right one.

I also realize almost how easily it can be hidden. Usually because the spouse trust the other so much, they do not question things.

Sick..How can you sleep with someone and come home and get in bed with your wife/husband?

Originally posted by RightWingZealot
>Weak minded people have affairs.<


weak moralled people.

80% of men and like 40% of women do this last I heard.

sad.

OK, weak minded, weak moralled people.

Scary statistics. I can't imagine cheating on my wife. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I did.

that is really sick to know they trust you, to break their trust, and ugh go back to being with your spouse after being with that other person.
I think it's also a little about ppl trying to be racey, and thinking they wont get caught. -and a bit of plain selfishness. I mean i bet a cheater knows that if their spouse found out, they would be heartbroken.

Affairs are usually the result of "already failed" marriages. They tend to be just the tip of the iceberg and are often used by the unfaithful spouse as an excuse to end a lingering marriage.

Besides the loss of "unconditional committment", there is usually the underlying loss of mutual respect and consideration present.

In my experiences, I've always found it immature and purile to "cheat" on a spouse. It solves nothing, and further ruins everything.

As for a person who is "the other": That person should back off until the spouse has "finished all previous business". It'll save that person a lot of head and heartache.

Redfield,

Sometimes it's an already failed marriage, others it's an already failed spouse if you know what I mean.

The third wheel person (unless they are totally blind, figuratively speaking) should know their 'boyfriend' or 'girlfriend' is someone's spouse. They are obviously not being particularly scruplulous to encourage or even allow that kind of interest from the married one.

The cheating spouse, to me, is the most to fault. Yes, a lazy slob husband that only interacts by yelling at his wife, or the harping nagging wife that does nothing but complain that her toys aren't new enough (or whatever) is definitely a contributor to the issue. If you drive your spouse off, they are going to see solace elsewhere unless they are freaky-patient with you. However, the one that actually steps outside the marriage bonds to have an intimate (and yes, it doesn't have to include sex) relationship with someone other than the spouse, carries the lion's share of the blame.

One of my dearest friends in the world had to divorce her husband because he cheated on her one time too many. IT broke her heart, because she was nothing but patient with him for a long time, and he was just a big jerk. That's not my bias toward her speaking either. I'd seen them interact for years before and after marrying.

marriage is a mutual compromise. sometimes some people compromise less than others. some people want more and can't get it.
therein lies your problem. being a weak willed or weak moralled person certainly plays a role, but i would like to say it is like this:
john and jane get married, john wants a lot of sex but jane only gives it up once in a while. as a result, john is unfulfilled. john looks for sex elsewhere.
now this is just a base argument, it directly involves sex, but it can be used in just about any scenario. if a person does not feel like he is getting enough LOVE from his wife, then he seeks it elsewhere. if he is not getting enough sex, seeks elsewhere. companionship, seels elsewhere.
marriage is supposed to be a mutual fulfillment, but oftentimes you see people talking about how they had sex 24/7 before they got married, and afterwards it dwindled to once a week, once a month.
some people stick it out, and that's all well and good, they're strong willed people, but ultimately, are they fulfilled? some people aren't. sometimes things just don't work out, but marriage is the responsibility of both partners to fulfill themselves and their partner. it often requires a compromise, but if one isn't willing to meet even halfway on something, then the other person eventually becomes desperate enough to seek somewhere else.

My problem always seems to lie more with the "third wheel", granted they know about the marriage, what right do they think they have having an affair? It's not their place to contribute to the downfall of the marriage. They need to get their ass out of there and back into the singles scene.

All these people reading this thread, surely someone has been involved in an affair in some capacity. Statistically, it's got to be true...

I know this doesn't happen very often, but I just want to say that not all extra-marital relationships are cheating. It's only cheating if it breaks the rules of the marriage. I know there are marriages like that because right now I'm the "third wheel" to that kind of marriage. The man I'm sleeping with loves his wife very much, and they have a very good relationship. He has no desire to leave his wife and I wouldn't want him to anyway. All there is between me and him is friendship and sex, which is all we are looking for in each other. Since we live in different cities it's a "whenever we're in the same city with some free time" sort of relationship.

I know I may get some flak for this, but nothing can change how I feel about the situation. I'm in this relationship with a clear conscience since I know that no one is getting hurt and I know that I'm not breaking up a marriage.

My problem always seems to lie more with the "third wheel", granted they know about the marriage, what right do they think they have having an affair? It's not their place to contribute to the downfall of the marriage. They need to get their ass out of there and back into the singles scene.

I disagree. Yes, #3 should not encourage or provide the means for someone to have an affair, and they should feel like **** for doing it, but I blame the person in the marriage who has the affair most. A) their marriage is their responsibility, they made the committment B) if they are willing to cheat on and hurt their partner, then I think it would happen with someone eventually C) if they aren't happy in the marriage and/or are in love with someone else, they have the power and the responsibility to change their situation.

If I thought I had found the one and we got married and I gave my virginity to him and he cheated I would probably kill myself.

So, Freya, since your lover is not breaking the rules of his marriage, that means the wife knows of you and approves of his conduct? Is this a "swinging" or open marriage?

DotCom, that man wouldn't be worth ending your life over. Having his ended by sterile means, OTOH....

Originally posted by DotCom
If I thought I had found the one and we got married and I gave my virginity to him and he cheated I would probably kill myself.
I should hope not. That would only mean you were punishing yourself for his infidelity.

Originally posted by Redfield

I should hope not. That would only mean you were punishing yourself for his infidelity.

yes but don't you see where she is coming from.. many people wait until they get married to have sex, and try to have one those ol' fashion families, where the families don't get a divorce and actually do make it.. not saying that they are better.. it's just what she wants.. and working all that time to watch it disappear, will only hurt..

i have personally seen some of the best families be absolutely destroyed b/c of affairs.. you would never think of it to some of them.. now there kids are rebellious and in and out of jail.. i would like to think that the kids would not of choosen so ignorantly if they parents were to stay together and be faithful

Originally posted by Freya
It's only cheating if it breaks the rules of the marriage. I know there are marriages like that because right now I'm the "third wheel" to that kind of marriage. The man I'm sleeping with loves his wife very much, and they have a very good relationship.

so she isnt trusting him to be faithful, and he isnt breaking that trust?
what about the rule in marriage that deals with fidelity? that one isnt broken?

Originally posted by turtle_o


so she isnt trusting him to be faithful, and he isnt breaking that trust?
what about the rule in marriage that deals with fidelity? that one isnt broken?

In almost every marriage monogamy is an unspoken rule. Since that is the social norm most people don't have to tell their spouse that they expect them to not sleep with anyone else. But in some marriages couples have talked about it and decided that monogamy isn't a requirement of their marriage.

From what I know of how these things work there are two big ways that an open marriage would work (and I mean work well, with both people happy and loving each other). One of the ways is when one or both of the people are polyamorous, and believe that their love isn't finite. As in, just because they truly love a second person, doesn't mean they love the first person any less. But that's not the situation I'm in.

What I've managed to find is a guy who shares my opinions on sex and love. Both he and I see sex and love as two completely separate things. And while it's great when they overlap, like in marriage, you can have sex without love and love without sex. So sex without love can be nothing more than a pleasant way to spend some free time.
But for this situation to work it helps a lot to have the mindset that the important thing is who you love, and that you've married someone because you love them with your whole heart and want to spend the rest of your life with them.

But let me make it perfectly clear that I know that most people aren't like this, and that this setup not only wouldn't work for most couples, but they wouldn't want it to anyway. I also believe that if this situation hasn't been explicitly discussed then any extra-marital relationship is a break of the other person's trust and is wrong.

Sorry about the long diatribe, these aren't very popular opinions and I don't get to explain them very often.

I've friends that are swingers. They're all okay people indvidually. The thing I don't get is, why even get married if you don't plan on being loyal? If you want to be promiscuous, isn't that better done while being single? Why add to the divorce rate?

I have no respect for people that cheat on their spouses, especially over and over. I have less respect for the woman or man that allows themselves into such a situation. The world is filled with people, and you know, some of them ARE single.

Originally posted by Freya
What I've managed to find is a guy who shares my opinions on sex and love. Both he and I see sex and love as two completely separate things. And while it's great when they overlap, like in marriage, you can have sex without love and love without sex. So sex without love can be nothing more than a pleasant way to spend some free time.
But for this situation to work it helps a lot to have the mindset that the important thing is who you love, and that you've married someone because you love them with your whole heart and want to spend the rest of your life with them.

Sorry about the long diatribe, these aren't very popular opinions and I don't get to explain them very often.

dont apologize, this was damned neat, and some of it made sense to me... but are you saying that you KNOW that his wife agrees with this? I mean, if she doesnt know about this, and it would hurt her if you she found out,... then she's being betrayed, and I would want to know how someone could knowingly be a part of that.
<but if she knows all about it, then i'll just keep my mouth shut ;) >

Originally posted by turtle_o


but are you saying that you KNOW that his wife agrees with this? I mean, if she doesnt know about this, and it would hurt her if you she found out,... then she's being betrayed, and I would want to know how someone could knowingly be a part of that.
<but if she knows all about it, then i'll just keep my mouth shut ;) >

I don't know how much his wife knows about me personally, but I know that they talked about this and decided that this behavior (casual relationships with safe, non-stalker people) was acceptable within the rules of their marriage. I haven't asked about their specific setup because I feel that it's none of my business unless he feels like telling me, but all that matters to me is that to them this isn't wrong. It would be really hard for me to be part of a normal style affair because I couldn't be friends with, let alone respect, any guy who would betray the woman he's supposed to love (and really, why would you want to sleep with someone that you wouldn't even want to be friends with?).

On the other hand, the wife may not know anything about the affair being that it only happens when he leaves the city. He may only be saying that she says it's ok to justify it to you.

Originally posted by Freya


I don't know how much his wife knows about me personally, but I know that they talked about this and decided that this behavior (casual relationships with safe, non-stalker people) was acceptable within the rules of their marriage.

So he says. A cheating man is dishonest to begin with. Why should he tell you the truth about whether or not his wife knows about you? I'm glad to know that your emotionally empty relationship with this guy is satisfying for you, though. More power to ya.

My guess: He's full of sh!t that his wife knows about you, and she would divorce him if she found out.

My problem always seems to lie more with the "third wheel", granted they know about the marriage, what right do they think they have having an affair? It's not their place to contribute to the downfall of the marriage. They need to get their ass out of there and back into the singles scene.

Though I put a lto fo fault in the third wheel, they share none of the blame. The blame rests 100% with the person having the affair.

As frong said, there are many factors of WHY the affair happened, but come on...it is not hard to NOT CHEAT. It is very easy to just break it off or get emotionally stable.

I should rephrase that. Cheating may happen in the heat of the moment, but a continued affair...no excuse other than a lack of compassion, honesty, and care/thought for the other person.

I had a best friend who was married to a great guy. He made good money, she didn't have to work and could do what she wanted. But she decided she was unhappy and shortly after he went out and bought her a truck (a few days to be exact), she kicked him out of the house they had just bought the year before at her urging. At this time she had a younger guy she worked with and she kept telling me they were "just friends" and she was "advising" him on how to work out his marriage. Well, after her and hubby split, he asked me honestly whether she was having an affair and I honestly said no. I kinda suspected something but gave her the benefit of the doubt. About a week after he asked me, she confessed to having been having the affair(the only reason she confessed was because my parents were in real estate and had listed her house on the market. The day they planned to do a walk-through her and the guy she was having an affair with were in the family room having a romp with some olive oil (she couldn't find any baby oil ) when my parents and some other agents walked in. She had to tell me before they did. I was mad to say the least. Not only had she ruined my trust in her because she lied to me, but had caused me to inadvertantly lie to her husband who was also a good friend. I'm not sure how I would have handled the question if I had known, and I didn't like being put in that position in the first place. I do not believe in affairs and think if a person is unhappy enough in a relationship to consider having an affair they should end the relationship before taking that step. Cheating on a spouse or having a relationship with a married person is just out an out wrong. People with morals like that can't be trusted at all as far as I am concerned.

I knew a woman who was a 'third wheel'. She knew the guy was married, but continued to see him. He told her that his marriage was on the rocks, and he and his wife only remained married 'for the children'. She was asked not to call or write to his home, for the sake of appearances, but his wife knew of his affair, just did'nt want it shoved in her face by phone calls, and letters.

I asked if she really believed that line, and she said yes. In fact, this guy even gave her his home phone number, to show his devotion, (????), the stipulation being that she was'nt to call it. She eventually did call it, and found out it was for a gas station.

She continued to see him anyway, because it was fun.

Some people.......:rolleyes:

Freya, I know people that have a relationship like your friend that you sleep with. In fact, if I found a woman that felt the same, I could probably be in that kind of relationship. I am not a cheater. I have been tempted, even by a gorgeous woman, naked in my bed, asking me to come join her, I still said no. However if I was with a woman that I truely, honestly with all of my heart loved and she knew that and was ok with me sleeping with someone else, I might. I can seperate love and sex as Freya described. A relationship like that would require an incredible amount of trust and communication, which I'd like to have anyway.

Manu, remember at Tiff's party we were talking about a similar thing? I don't care if my woman flirts with others as long as I know she's coming home with complete love for me? This could concievibly go for sex as well. I've never had that kind of relationship, so I don't know, but I'm not a jealous person when I know for a fact that my woman is mine and mine only.

I think open/polyamorous relationships can work if both people are 100% sure that they're okay with the situation. I understand that people can care deeply about more than one person at a time -- I know I have. And I guess I've technically been in open relationships in the past -- although neither of us ended up sleeping with anyone else.

I think that's because I can't be in more than one sexual relationship at a time. I've learned that I can't really separate sex and deep feelings. I don't like the thought of my partner engaging in sexual activity with other women -- even if it's just meaningless sex. I mean I know that he's chosen me as his partner -- I guess it should be enough to know that he's coming home to me after he's finished traipsing through his adventures -- with other women and other things. I admit it's a little selfish to want him all to myself -- and I think it's absurd to claim the right to someone else's sexuality. But if I'm investing love into a relationship, I want to be all the woman my partner wants and needs -- both romantically and sexually. That's why communication is so important in healthy relationships. If there's some need that one of us isn't fulfilling, it needs to be discussed. Hopefully it can be resolved -- but if it can't, then maybe it's time to re-evaluate things.

That said, I don't judge people who are polyamorous. I actually think that we'd all be happier if we could learn to live and love a little more freely. As intelligent and fun and devilishly handsome as I think my guy is, I will admit that I sometimes find myself attracted to other men. But when it comes down to it, I guess I prize what we have a little too much to be generous with it right now.

Originally posted by Wedge


yes but don't you see where she is coming from.. many people wait until they get married to have sex, and try to have one those ol' fashion families, where the families don't get a divorce and actually do make it.. not saying that they are better.. it's just what she wants.. and working all that time to watch it disappear, will only hurt..
Wedge feels where I'm coming from! Yay!

Originally posted by Freya

I'm in this relationship with a clear conscience since I know that no one is getting hurt and I know that I'm not breaking up a marriage. Ummm... excuse me, I'm not trying to give you flak, but does the wife in your situation know about you? Is she ok with it? If not, your statement that you are not hurting anyone is false. And, it may turn out to hurt all three of you later on.

Here's an example:

I lived with someone for several years after my divorce. (I do NOT share) She went to a "family reunion" for ten days... the last thing she said, as she left was I love you, I'll call you when I get there. 8 days later, after STILL not hearing from her, I started calling family members (mother, grandfather, etc...) All of them were back home, and had not heard from her (they said) On that 8th day, the phone bill also came. Normally, she took care of all the bill paying, so I didn't even see them. On this infamous phone bill was a number I didn't recognise. I called it, and when a man answered, I politely asked to speak to her. He asked me to hold on, and then called her. When she came on the phone, I said two things ( I was having a really hard time breathing) First, why?, second, nevermind, it's not important. Have your chain of command come here to get your things. (we were both in the Army) Even though she had two more days, and I am not the destructive type, she felt the need to drive 11 hours right then, to come back and try to change my mind. I don't know how many hours she sat outside... I had changed the locks. I wanted to get drunk so bad. I wanted to kick her ass from Georgia to Timbucktu and back again.

I really don't want to finish this, the wounds are still raw. The relationship is over, and I have never seen her again. I picked up the pices of my life, and stayed sober, and Tami has picked up the pieces of my heart, and over time has restored a good bit of my ability to trust.

Let's just say, that if you are in a committed relationship, do the right thing. If you find yourself wanting someone else, break up from the person in your relationship. It hurts far less to be broken up with than to be lied to, cheated on, etc.. If you truly LOVE the person in your relationship, then there is no excuse for cheating. If you are the outside person with the cheater, you are just as guilty. Left to MY decision, you and the cheater (not you specifically) would be drawn, quartered, branded, skinned alive, and then manually castrated with dull implements, and then BURNED to death.

Boy, I'm not bitter, am I?

alex, her friend that she sleeps with is in an open relationship with his wife. Meaning his wife knows that he is sleeping with another woman. Freya stated in ealier posts that while she has not met the wife, the wife knows that it is not a monogamous marriage and is ok with it. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it would break my heart as well, but it doesn't really have much to do with freya's situation.