As political turmoil continues in Lebanon, observers say Hezbollah, the Shia movement, is re-arming and pursuing fresh recruits for its armed wing. Hezbollah has not denied this.

The movement was launched in 1982 in response to Israel's occupation of southern Lebanon. Backed by Iran and supported for much of its history by Syria, its fighters carried out a series of suicide attacks against Israeli soldiers.

By the late 1990s, Hezbollah had developed into a political party and was funding schools, hospitals and social programmes for Lebanon's often impoverished Shia population.

While the movement adapted to Lebanon's political sphere, its armed wing, the Islamic Resistance, continued to attack Israeli forces occupying southern Lebanon until they pulled out on May 25, 2000.

Last year, Hezbollah fighters captured two Israeli soldiers and killed several more in a cross-border raid.

In retaliation, Israel bombarded Lebanon for 34 days in an attempt to destroy Hezbollah.

However, in the aftermath of the war, Hezbollah now enjoys increased popularity, with more fighters signing up.

One such recruit spoke to Al Jazeera on condition of anonymity.

Mohammed, a 22-year-old architecture student, joined after the war. He was following in the footsteps of his brother and father, both resistance fighters. . . . .

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6D9F553B-80DE-4CC3-8FFC-33946E24E592.htm

What with Hamas and the PLO's recent decline in funds, the Iranian military pays much better, so naturally the professional terrorists would start leaving their other mercenary outfits and signing up in the Iranian Special Forces units. It's a lot safer than the others, and has more bennies.

I'll grant you this, you titled this thread correctly. Yes, hezbollah is for dummies. You left out the best parts in the article, the most illuminating. From the interview of the soon to be dead new recruit:


"We, as Muslims, when we see oppression, we can't accept it."

" I am not married and I am young. It is fairer for someone like me to be martyred. This is why I joined Hezbollah."


"The resistance, Hezbollah, is like the mother and the father."

"These guys were 23, 24, 25 - in the prime of their lives with a big future ahead of them ... They always knew that they had a bigger duty - the duty to defend their country."

"The Lebanese army doesn't have weapons. It is not allowed to carry weapons because there is an international arrangement not to properly arm it."


"If the army had weapons then everyone would go back to their lines and the resistance would have to rethink its defence strategy. This is what [Hassan] Nasrallah [the Hezbollah secretary-general] said. He said once we have a government then come back and talk to us."

"Our akeedah [belief in our cause], as I told you, is a fundamental thing. The akeedah is what allowed a single fighter in a village to fight 30, 40, 50 Israeli soldiers. Why? Because he won't go back, he won't give up. He would rather be martyred than humiliated. This is in the blood of the martyrs and this is why we have all these victories."


Since you quoted this part of the article:

"However, in the aftermath of the war, Hezbollah now enjoys increased popularity, with more fighters signing up."

I'm wondering if you could (since the author didn't) show some proof that hezbollah's popularity has increased in Lebanon and maybe even show were they have increased in size.

I suggest you go to Lebanon and see for yourself. But then again, you probably believe that a "war against Christmas" is underway because some talking head on FOX news said so, while a ME based reporter for al-Jazeera is automatically suspect because. . . well, you just can't trust anything an A-rab says.

Despite their efforts to the contrary, Israel has succeeded in uniting Lebanon's Muslim and Christian communities, who now share a common enemy, thanks to Israel's indiscriminate bombing of Lebanese civilians in 2006.

I suggest you go to Lebanon and see for yourself. Are you posting from Lebanon?

But then again, you probably believe that a "war against Christmas" is underway You obviously don't know what I believe so why are you deflecting?
because some talking head on FOX news said so, I cannot recall the last time I sat down and watched the news on TV let alone FOX news... (Jut a little more proof you have no idea what I "believe")

Do these deflections have anything to do with the thread topic?

while a ME based reporter for al-Jazeera is automatically suspect because. . . well, you just can't trust anything an A-rab says. Did I say anything negative about al jazeera or the reporter in question?

I believe I posted some of the foolish statements from the tool being interviewed and I asked if you could back the statement from the author of the piece concerning hezbollah's popularity and numbers.

You respond with an attack on me and do not address my actual statements...I guess that means you have noting of relevance to add

Despite their efforts to the contrary, Israel has succeeded in uniting Lebanon's Muslim and Christian communities, who now share a common enemy, thanks to Israel's indiscriminate bombing of Lebanese civilians in 2006.I think maybe you are half correct....Israel may have succeeded in the former but as to 'common enemy'...maybe that is hezbollah who has brought much destruction to Lebanon....but you would know that better then I since you are from Lebanon and I am not qualified to speak on the matter.

I assumed it was common knowledge that Hizbollah's popularity was hugely boosted in the wake of its success during Summer 2006

BEIRUT - As the war in Lebanon approaches the one-month mark, and amid the destruction of much of Lebanon, Hezbollah appears to be gaining strength within the country and around the Arab world.

The Israeli aim of widespread bombing of the Lebanese infrastructure in order to create resentment against Hezbollah seems to have played into the strengths of Hezbollah.

The result is that rather than pressuring Hezbollah by destroying Lebanon, Israel has increased popular support for the group, and brought the wishes of most Lebanese more in line with the stated goals of Hezbollah to keep Israel at bay.

With Hezbollah engaged in at least 60 percent of the relief efforts in Lebanon, the kind of work that gave it power in the first place is now only increasing its popularity.

http://www.antiwar.com/jamail/?articleid=9500

Well, that's twp opinion pieces, one from al jazeera and one from antiwar.com that say hezbollah is much more popular. Of course what Guido just posted was written in August 2006 not December 2007 but I won't quibble. In case you missed what I said a couple times or skimmed over it both times, here it is a third time:

I asked if you could back the statement from the author of the piece concerning hezbollah's popularity and numbers.

You know, like a legit public opinion survey or an election result where hezbollah has increased it's size in government or maybe something concerning local donations to hezbollah (not those from syria or iran) and I'd also like you to address the second part of that statement and maybe show me how hezbollah's numbers are bigger then before the war.


BTW Guido, do you live in Lebanon too bcause suzuran has never questioned your thoughts or opinions?

Excellent thread you have started Suzaran. :nice: Maybe when you finish baiting and trolling in a couple other threads you can actually defend it's content.

I suggest you go to Lebanon and see for yourself. But then again, you probably believe that a "war against Christmas" is underway because some talking head on FOX news said so, while a ME based reporter for al-Jazeera is automatically suspect because. . . well, you just can't trust anything an A-rab says.

Despite their efforts to the contrary, Israel has succeeded in uniting Lebanon's Muslim and Christian communities, who now share a common enemy, thanks to Israel's indiscriminate bombing of Lebanese civilians in 2006.

Yea until next week when some muslim radical bombs a christian church, then its on again. Israel will bomb as long as rockets from lebanon continue to rain down on them.

Maybe when you finish baiting and trolling in a couple other threads you can actually defend it's content.

I don't have any proof, but hiding behind civilian women and children was a successful tactic, since the Israelis leafleted warnings for days before they went after the vermin, who of course forced their humans shields to stay at gunpoint. Such thuggery is wildly popular with the cowards since it increases their survivability, so it's highly possible some of the other thugs jumped ship and ran over to join the Iranian Special Forces, given the 'morals' of racist Arabs looking for a paycheck.

Yea until next week when some muslim radical bombs a christian church, then its on again. Israel will bomb as long as rockets from lebanon continue to rain down on them.

Actually, after the war Hezbalah is not attacing Israel anymore.

Excellent thread you have started Suzaran. :nice: Maybe when you finish baiting and trolling in a couple other threads you can actually defend it's content.

Thank you, ZiiT. I think the source material, plus the link provided by Guido speaks for itself. And ever since Krusty the Kroosader came along to dumb it down even further, I've sort of lost interest.

Thank you, ZiiT. I think the source material, plus the link provided by Guido speaks for itself. And ever since Krusty the Kroosader came along to dumb it down even further, I've sort of lost interest.

Hi Suzuran.

Here's a high quality two-part article on Hezbollah by Adam Shatz: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17060 (Part I); http://www.nybooks.com/articles/article-preview?article_id=17098 (Part II)

Thank you, Guido. I will read it now. Hope you are having a good morning.

Thank you for the good wishes, Suzuran, and I hope your doing well also.

Hezbollah is the future. Here's why:

Hezbollah’s reputation as an efficient grass-roots social service network — as opposed to the Lebanese government, regarded by many here as sleek men in suits doing well — was in evidence everywhere. Young men with walkie-talkies and clipboards were in the battered Shiite neighborhoods on the southern edge of Bint Jbail, taking notes on the extent of the damage.

“Hezbollah’s strength,” said Amal Saad-Ghorayeb, a professor at the Lebanese American University here, who has written extensively about the organization, in large part derives from “the gross vacuum left by the state.”

Hezbollah was not, she said, a state within a state, but rather “a state within a nonstate, actually.”

Sheik Nasrallah said in his speech that “the brothers in the towns and villages will turn to those whose homes are badly damaged and help rebuild them.

“Today is the day to keep up our promises,” he said. “All our brothers will be in your service starting tomorrow.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/world/middleeast/16hezbollah.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

As governments continue to be hollowed out, marginalized and emptied of their traditional functions via globalization (or, in the USA, following the Grover Norquist model of starving the government, which is ironically much like what Karl Marx envisioned as the "whithering away of the state" under communism) and privatization, non-governmental organizations like Blackwater and Hezbollah will rise to fill the void.

I think the source material, plus the link provided by Guido speaks for itself.
I've already addressed your opinion piece and also the opinion piece from guido.....I'd hardly call it "source material" As a matter of fact, it's source material I am asking you to provide to back your opinion.


Thank you, ZiiT.
.
.
.
And ever since Krusty the Kroosader came along to dumb it down even further, I've sort of lost interest.yeah.....I can see how you are offended by others dumbing down a thread

Hezbollah is the future. Simply amazing.

You and your kissing cousin should make bumber stickers out of this comment. Maybe you can make it your signature.



Hezbollah’s reputation as an efficient grass-roots social service network reputation is just more opinion. The fact they are they only ones able to provide social services to the people they have isolated does not imply they are efficient. How much money is funneled into the group and how much of that money is spent on social srvices?

— as opposed to the Lebanese government, regarded by many here as sleek men in suits doing well — was in evidence everywhere. Young men with walkie-talkies and clipboards were in the battered Shiite neighborhoods on the southern edge of Bint Jbail, taking notes on the extent of the damage. evidenced everywhere? Everywhere in Lebanon or just the areas hezbollah controls?

“Hezbollah’s strength,” said Amal Saad-Ghorayeb, a professor at the Lebanese American University here, who has written extensively about the organization, in large part derives from “the gross vacuum left by the state.”

Hezbollah was not", she said, a state within a state, but rather “a state within a nonstate, actually”

If there is a gross vacuum left by the state, it is in areas where hezbollah is strong and it is caused by hezbollah via syria via iran.

Your turd for a "source" has it wrong, that area should not be called a "nonstate" it should be called a "proxy state"

You and your kissing cousin should make bumber stickers out of this comment. Maybe you can make it your signature.

That's a good idea, but for the moment (unless Suzaran convinces me otherwise), I prefer my current signature.

ZiiT:

I'm willing to go with "Hezbollah is the Future" for my next change of signature. Might I suggest you do the same? It's certainly better than your current one: I know Jack Sh*t about world affairs but that's never stopped me from flaunting my ignorance on the subject (or any other) with tedious impunity".

Thank you for the good wishes, Suzuran, and I hope your doing well also.

Hezbollah is the future. Here's why:

Hezbollah’s reputation as an efficient grass-roots social service network — as opposed to the Lebanese government, regarded by many here as sleek men in suits doing well — was in evidence everywhere. Young men with walkie-talkies and clipboards were in the battered Shiite neighborhoods on the southern edge of Bint Jbail, taking notes on the extent of the damage.

“Hezbollah’s strength,” said Amal Saad-Ghorayeb, a professor at the Lebanese American University here, who has written extensively about the organization, in large part derives from “the gross vacuum left by the state.”

Hezbollah was not, she said, a state within a state, but rather “a state within a nonstate, actually.”

Sheik Nasrallah said in his speech that “the brothers in the towns and villages will turn to those whose homes are badly damaged and help rebuild them.

“Today is the day to keep up our promises,” he said. “All our brothers will be in your service starting tomorrow.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/world/middleeast/16hezbollah.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

As governments continue to be hollowed out, marginalized and emptied of their traditional functions via globalization (or, in the USA, following the Grover Norquist model of starving the government, which is ironically much like what Karl Marx envisioned as the "whithering away of the state" under communism) and privatization, non-governmental organizations like Blackwater and Hezbollah will rise to fill the void.

Thank you. A very enlightening read.

ZiiT:

I'm willing to go with "Hezbollah is the Future" for my next change of signature. Might I suggest you do the same? It's certainly better than your current one: I know Jack Sh*t about world affairs but that's never stopped me from flaunting my ignorance on the subject (or any other) with tedious impunity".

:lol::lol:

:lol::lol:

Oops. I tried posting ZiiT's signature in Arabic but it came up as a series of question marks. Never mind.

????????? ????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ???????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ???? ????????????? (??) ???????? ??????? ???? ???????? ????????? ???? ???????????? ?????? ???????????? (??) ?????????????? ???????? ??? ??????????? ????? ?????? ???????????? ????? ??????????? ?????? ??? ????????? ??????? ???????? ??????????? (??)

:usa:

You're way cool, and your writing cuts like a machete.

:bowrofl::rock:

ZiiT:

I'm willing to go with "Hezbollah is the Future" for my next change of signature. Might I suggest you do the same? It's certainly better than your current one: I know Jack Sh*t about world affairs but that's never stopped me from flaunting my ignorance on the subject (or any other) with tedious impunity".


Odd...you claim I don't know anything about this the topic, yet is you that hasn't done anything to defend the opinions you posted

Then you claim that others have degraded the thread but it is you who has started the name calling. Seems you're no different the the rest of the stooges you pal around with.


And you people call caddis or ZIIZ the troll?...lol

You fit in well here suzuran...I'm sure you will last longer then I will :nice:

Odd...you claim I don't know anything about this the topic, yet is you that hasn't done anything to defend the opinions you posted

Then you claim that others have degraded the thread but it is you who has started the name calling. Seems you're no different the the rest of the stooges you pal around with.


And you people call caddis or ZIIZ the troll?...lol

You fit in well here suzuran...I'm sure you will last longer then I will :nice:

Guido has kindly posted several excellent links to articles on the subject of Hezbollah (it's aims, it's influence, its leadership, its political and military operations, its supporters, its financial backers, its history, etc etc) all meticulously documented and available for your perusal. When you have read them, I would be happy to discuss anything you like. Until then, I will amuse myself at your expense because it is fun.

Guido has kindly posted several excellent links to articles on the subject of Hezbollah (it's aims, it's influence, its leadership, its political and military operations, its supporters, its financial backers, its history, etc etc) all meticulously documented and available for your perusal. When you have read them, I would be happy to discuss anything you like. It's the responsibility of the poster to post pertinent information (And provide links) I have better things to do then try and defend your own threads.

Until then, I will amuse myself at your expense because it is fun.lol...doesn't guido, CA, and optimus have a word for that kind of behavior?

It's the responsibility of the poster to post pertinent information (And provide links) I have better things to do then try and defend your own threads.

Were this poster slightly more adept at thinking and expressing himself in English, this post would read:

"It's the responsibility of the poster to post pertinent information (And provide links) [sic] I have better things to do than try and defend my own opinions."

Sorry bub, as far as I have seen, you have posted opinions and anecdotal evidence to back the original opinion piece....I was hoping for something more.
You know, like a legit public opinion survey or an election result where hezbollah has increased it's size in government or maybe something concerning local donations to hezbollah (not those from syria or iran) and I'd also like you to address the second part of that statement and maybe show me how hezbollah's numbers are bigger then before the war. I'll be happy to concede those two points as soon as I am convinced.


You never did answer guido, are you posting from Lebanon? Ever been there? Been to Iran? Syria? Lands controlled by Palestine? What about your side kick? Not that it matters of course...ass-wipe statements like hers are an appeal to authority

Sorry bub, as far as I have seen, you have posted opinions and anecdotal evidence to back the original opinion piece....I was hoping for something more.
I'll be happy to concede those two points as soon as I am convinced.


You never did answer guido, are you posting from Lebanon? Ever been there? Been to Iran? Syria? Lands controlled by Palestine? What about your side kick? Not that it matters of course...ass-wipe statements like hers are an appeal to authority

I'm not going to waste my time "proving" something that is common knowledge among people who actually pay attention to these things.

One way in which people who have no valid argument attempt to evade that fact is by continually demanding "proof" that they are wrong, and then never accepting the proof that is offered, usually on the ground that the source is "biased," etc. You can see "Truth Teller" doing this again and again in the Hateful Jewish Settlers thread.

Another equally ineffectual method of evading honest discussion of facts is to imply that interlocator has no "personal experience" with the issue being discussed, as if facts were established only by way of "personal experience." It's ironic that you should accuse Suzuran of "appeal to authority" in this context because that's exactly what you are doing by implying that personal experience is the only valid authority.

Your only interesting post in this thread is when you characterized my statement about Hezbollah being "the future" as "amazing."

According to the tautology -- "Hezbollah is a terrorist organization" -- it is indeed "amazing," meaning, unacceptable to the conventional wisdom.

Suit yourself moe, don't back your side-kick, I could care less. In the future, maybe the cunt will defend her own tripe


I'm not going to waste my time "proving" something that is common knowledge Appeal to Belief
among people who actually pay attention to these things. Appeal to Authority

One way in which people who have no valid argument attempt to evade that fact is by continually demanding "proof" that they are wrong, and then never accepting the proof that is offered, usually on the ground that the source is "biased," etc. You can see "Truth Teller" doing this again and again in the Hateful Jewish Settlers thread. red herring


Another equally ineffectual method of evading honest discussion of facts is to imply that interlocator has no "personal experience" with the issue being discussed, as if facts were established only by way of "personal experience." It's ironic that you should accuse Suzuran of "appeal to authority" in this context because that's exactly what you are doing by implying that personal experience is the only valid authority.
Maybe you weren't paying close attention. It was suzuran that introduced the appeal to authority. It is why I have asked you and her to to clarify your "expertise" on the matter.

I suggest you go to Lebanon and see for yourself. But then again, you probably believe that a "war against Christmas" is underway because some talking head on FOX news said so, while a ME based reporter for al-Jazeera is automatically suspect because. . . well, you just can't trust anything an A-rab says. Not only does she imply I don't understand because I have not been to Lebanon but she also tosses in a red herring of her own and inserts a lie



Despite their efforts to the contrary, Israel has succeeded in uniting Lebanon's Muslim and Christian communities, who now share a common enemy, thanks to Israel's indiscriminate bombing of Lebanese civilians in 2006.I have asked for a little evidence that backs this statement and another. She hasn't given me anything but ad hominem attacks and you have giving me nothing except more opinion-based links. The Burden of Proof is on her.
But if she can't prove anything she could at least defend the article with some sound reasoning

But if she can't prove anything she could at least defend the article with some sound reasoning

There's nothing to defend. She posted the article to help dummies understand what Hezbollah really is, as opposed to the comic book caricature that is peddled in our worthless mass media. Note the title of the thread: "Hezbollah for Dummies."

Apparently at least one dummy isn't interested in learning; perhaps another dummy is.

G.S.M

Stratfor report on Hezb'allah


Hezbollah: Signs of a Sophisticated Intelligence Apparatus
By Fred Burton and Scott Stewart

On Dec. 4, Samar Spinelli, a U.S. Marine captain, pleaded guilty in U.S. district court in Detroit to conspiring to commit citizenship and passport fraud. By pleading guilty, Spinelli admitted to having conspired with her former roommate, Nada Nadim Prouty, to fraudulently obtain U.S. citizenship. Prouty, a former FBI agent and CIA case officer, pleaded guilty in the same court in November to accessing a federal computer system to obtain information about the Lebanese-based militant group Hezbollah and conspiracy to defraud the U.S. government, among other charges. Spinelli's other former roommate, Elfat El Aouar -- Prouty's sister -- is serving an 18-month prison sentence for tax evasion. All three women were born in Lebanon.

The evidence, allegations and related cases suggest that Hezbollah has established a sophisticated intelligence apparatus that reaches into the United States. Moreover, it is possible -- though certainly not proven -- that Spinelli and Prouty used their positions in government agencies to provide Hezbollah with sensitive information. If these women were indeed Hezbollah plants, the magnitude of the information they provided to Hezbollah and Iran could be similar in importance to the information Robert Hanssen provided to the Soviets and Russians -- and the damage could prove to be just as great.

The Web

Although the network of interpersonal relations and sham marriages muddle the story, the evidence appears as follows:

One of the three former roommates, El Aouar, is married to fugitive Talal Chahine, an alleged Hezbollah financial operative who is believed to be hiding in Lebanon. Chahine was charged in 2006 in the Eastern District of Michigan with tax evasion in connection with a scheme to conceal more than $20 million in cash received by a chain of restaurants he owns and routing those funds to "persons in Lebanon." In October 2007, Chahine, along with a senior Immigrations and Customs Enforcement official in Detroit and several other people, was charged in a bribery and extortion conspiracy in which federal immigration benefits allegedly were awarded to illegal aliens in exchange for money that also apparently ended up in Hezbollah's coffers.

According to court documents, Spinelli, whose maiden name was Khalil Nabbouh, entered the United States from Lebanon on a student visa in 1989. After her arrival, she lived in Taylor, Mich., with sisters Elfat El Aouar and Nada Nadim El Aouar (who would later become Nada Prouty). The El Aouar sisters also had entered the United States on student visas, and had failed to return to Lebanon once their studies ended.

On April 13, 1990, Spinelli entered into a fraudulent marriage with Jean Paul Deladurantaye in order to remain in the United States and obtain U.S. citizenship. On Aug. 9, 1990, Spinelli then facilitated Prouty's fraudulent marriage to Chris Deladurantaye, the brother of Spinelli's sham husband.

Spinelli enlisted in the U.S. Marines in 1990 and, after receiving her citizenship, divorced Deladurantaye and married a fellow Marine, Capt. Gary Spinelli, in 1995. Commissioned as a Marine officer in 1997, Spinelli rose to the rank of captain and was awarded several decorations. She reportedly was serving her second tour of duty in Iraq when she was called back to face the fraud charges.

Meanwhile, Prouty worked as a waitress at one of Chahine's restaurants as she earned a bachelor's degree from Detroit Business College. After gaining her U.S. citizenship in 1994, she moved to Pennsylvania to pursue an MBA at Bloomsburg University. While at Bloomsburg, she met and married Andrew Alley, who had served as a Marine during Operation Desert Storm. In 1997, the FBI hired Prouty as an agent and assigned her to the FBI's Washington field office, where she worked on an extraterritorial squad investigating crimes against U.S. persons overseas -- terrorism cases. As part of her duties, she investigated the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole and the 2002 assassination of American diplomat Laurence Foley, in Amman, Jordan. In 2000, Prouty divorced Alley and later married Foreign Service officer Gordon Prouty, who had served at U.S. embassies in Islamabad, Pakistan, and Cairo, Egypt.

Knowing Nada Prouty from her work as an FBI agent working terrorism cases, the CIA hired her in 2003, and she became an agency case officer. She reportedly was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, and participated in a number of interrogations of high-value suspects, including captured al Qaeda members. When the CIA learned of Prouty's immigration fraud in December 2005, the agency reportedly moved her to a less sensitive language-training post.

Elfat El Aouar also was involved in a sham marriage in 1990 and, like her sister, went on to earn an MBA. She became the financial manager of the La Shish restaurants and married La Shish owner Chahine in 2000. She was convicted on tax evasion charges and sentenced in May 2007. A third sister, Rula Nadim El Aouar, also has been charged with immigration fraud as a result of her 1992 sham marriage to a man who worked as a dishwasher at a La Shish restaurant. It was the investigation into the activities of Chahine and El Aouar that eventually led authorities to Prouty and Spinelli.

The Potential Blowback

Although there is no evidence at this point that Prouty and Spinelli worked on behalf of Hezbollah, we cannot ignore the fact that the U.S. government has produced evidence that Prouty's sister and Chahine attended an August 2002 Hezbollah fundraiser in Lebanon -- during which Chahine was seated in a position of honor at the right hand of Hezbollah's spiritual leader, Sheikh Muhammed Hussein Fadlallah.



Additionally, Prouty did admit in her guilty plea that in September 2000 she used the FBI's computerized Automated Case System (ACS) without authorization to look up her own name, her sister's name and that of Chahine. Prouty also admitted that in June 2003 she accessed the ACS to obtain information relating to an FBI national security investigation into Hezbollah -- though she had not been officially assigned to work any Hezbollah cases.

It is important to note, however, that the FBI did, and still does, employ relatively few native Arabic speakers, and even fewer special agents who speak the language. The bureau is a hierarchical organization with a very agent-oriented culture, meaning agents are regarded far more highly than are analysts, technicians or translators. Agents trust other agents and will often discuss matters among themselves that they will not discuss with outsiders or translators. They also will seek assistance from fellow agents who have rare skills, such as native Arabic ability. So, although Prouty was assigned to a squad with an extraterritorial focus, she undoubtedly was given access to many cases that she was not officially assigned to work, gaining insight into the bureau's domestic counterintelligence capabilities in relation to Arabic-speaking terrorist groups such as Hezbollah.

The timing of Prouty's transfer to the CIA is also interesting in that it came on the eve of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. A case officer who spoke native Arabic would have been indispensable in an environment such as Iraq, especially at a time when there were many high-value suspects to interrogate and sources to interview. Such an employee undoubtedly would be given insight into almost everything happening in the CIA's station and would have ready access to a great deal of information.

This is the kind of information that would be of utmost importance to Iran. Tehran, considering the invasion as a potential threat to its own interests -- believed the U.S. operations in Iraq required close monitoring. Following the invasion, the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad became one of the most significant in the world -- especially from the Iranian perspective. While the Iranians undoubtedly planted their loyalists in the local guard force and the embassy's local support staff, those people would not have had nearly the same access as a cleared American officer.

So, if Prouty were working on behalf of Hezbollah and its Iranian masters, she would have been able to gather a significant amount of information regarding the FBI's domestic counterterrorism capabilities and programs, as well as information pertaining to investigations it was running against Hezbollah. More importantly, she would have had an insider's view of how the FBI conducts such operations, which would allow her to determine how a group such as Hezbollah could use gaps in that capability and coverage to avoid detection. If Prouty was used to translate Arabic conversations from telephone taps or other listening devices, she could have learned the targets of such devices and the locations where the device were planted. Furthermore, if she were asked to interview Arabic-speaking sources, she would have little trouble identifying them.

As a CIA case officer, Prouty would also be able to provide Hezbollah and Iran with a detailed look at CIA training and intelligence tradecraft, in addition to a wide variety of information pertaining to the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, as well as the CIA station and its sources of intelligence there. Just the classified cable traffic she would be privy to would be a treasure trove to a hostile intelligence agency, especially the operational reports that might be useful in identifying sources. Even though sources are identified by codes rather than their real names, the characterization of the source, the information provided and the timeframe in which the source provided the information can be very useful to a counterintelligence service. Such revelations can, and do, lead to the deaths of sources.

In the past, it was thought that only nation states such as Russia or Israel had the potential to send agents into another country to infiltrate their most sensitive government agencies. In this case, it could turn out that a militant group (perhaps with a little help from its Iranian mentors) was able to accomplish this feat. In this case, the agents might not only have penetrated those agencies, but maneuvered themselves into positions and locations of critical importance to Hezbollah and the Iranians. It would be quite a coup for Hezbollah to pull off such a feat while the United States and Iran were in the midst of a covert intelligence war.

Flaws in the System

These cases highlight the gaps in U.S. immigration policy and demonstrates the ways in which individuals -- and militant organizations -- can exploit those vulnerabilities to enter or remain in the United States fraudulently.

Furthermore, the cases demonstrate that the FBI, CIA and Marine Corps all failed to detect this web of sham marriages when they conducted background investigations on the women in question, especially since the marriages were within the seven-year investigative window required for Prouty's FBI clearance and Spinelli's enlistment in the Marine Corps. A full field background investigation should have been able to determine the nature of the sham marriages, given that the women never lived with their purported husbands.

The problem, however, is that background investigations often are seen as mundane tasks, and thus are not given high priority -- especially when there are so many other "real" cases to investigate. Furthermore, the work is most often done by contract investigators whose bureaucratic bosses emphasize speed over substance, meaning important leads can be ignored because of a case deadline. The contractors who do dig deeply sometimes are accused of trying to milk the system and acquire more points (the basis upon which contract investigators are paid.)

Of course, in cases involving Lebanese citizens (and many other Middle Easterners) it is extremely difficult to investigate their lives prior to their arrival in the United States. Even verifying the identity of such a person is difficult, not to mention that it would be relatively easy for a Lebanese Shi'i to claim to be a Maronite or a Druze. Furthermore, even if the person is who he or she claims to be -- and has entered the United States with good intentions -- the powerful militias back home, such as Hezbollah, still could force that person to provide them with information by threatening his or her relatives in the home country.

After Prouty's arrest, an FBI spokesman noted that she passed a polygraph test before being hired (she undoubtedly also passed one before being hired by the CIA, as it is standard agency procedure). However, the U.S. government has long known that the results of polygraph tests administered to Middle Easterners, Muslims in particular, can be seriously flawed. The reason, frankly, is that for a host of cultural and religious reasons, lying does not stress Middle Easterners and Muslims as much as it does Western Christians. This allows them to defeat polygraph tests. For a system that depends so heavily upon polygraphs -- especially when the system is working hard to recruit people with Arabic and Farsi language skills -- this is a serious vulnerability.

The fact that Prouty and Spinelli were intelligent female candidates with desired language skills further allowed them to exploit the flaws in the system. Spinelli, who served two deployments to Iraq, would have found herself in a very good position to collect intelligence regarding military deployments, capabilities and intentions, as well as sensitive details regarding the Iraqi military. A female Marine officer in a war zone would also be able to gather a boatload of information from social contacts in Iraq. As for Prouty, a female Arabic speaker with an MBA, there is almost no way the FBI would have passed on the opportunity to hire such a perfect candidate.

Whether the two women exploited their positions for personal advancement or for Hezbollah might never be fully revealed -- though the many coincidences in these cases and the Hezbollah connections certainly are intriguing.

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Good thread. I'm sorry it was dragged down by people who shouldn't even be posting here. Anyway, I thought I'd add, for the slower people, the same finding by the UNSC, as reported by an Israeli daily.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/916759.html

More than a year after the summer war in southern Lebanon ended, the United Nations said Wednesday the Hezbollah militia has "rebuilt and even increased its military capacity."

A report to the United Nations Security Council on progress to pacify southern Lebanon said Hezbollah's military strength is now comparable to the period before the July-August 2006 war with the Israel Defense Forces, which ended with a council-ordered ceasefire.



that is hezbollah who has brought much destruction to Lebanon


It wasn't Hezbollah who carpet bombed Lebanon . . . it was Israel.

Good thread. I'm sorry it was dragged down by people who shouldn't even be posting here. Then why are you posting here?

Anyway, I thought I'd add, for the slower people, Add what, an insult?

the same finding by the UNSC, as reported by an Israeli daily.
Thanks for the opinion of the UNSC. It doesn't verify what I have asked to be verified but thanks for playing :nice:




It wasn't Hezbollah who carpet bombed Lebanon . . . it was Israel.No, but is was hezbollah that violated the terms of Israel’s withdrawal from southern Lebanon...you know, that bit about disarming. And it was hezbollah that operates outside the control of the government of Lebanon (but within the control of Iran and Syria) that attacks Israel, that disrupts any chance for peace between the legitimate government of Lebanon and Israel. It was Israel that retaliated and invaded Lebanon as a direct result of the actions of hezbollah....not as a direct result of the actions of Lebanon. The fault lies squarely on the shoulders of the rogue military group and it's supporters

There will never be peace between Israel and Lebanon as long as hezbollah is armed and has influence in the region. And the people you pretend to weep for, are the ones that will pay the price.

It was Israel that retaliated and invaded Lebanon as a direct result of the actions of hezbollah...

It's been acknowledged by the Israeli government that the last invasion of Lebanon was planned for many months before the border incident.

And it was hezbollah that operates outside the control of the government of Lebanon (but within the control of Iran and Syria) that attacks Israel, that disrupts any chance for peace between the legitimate government of Lebanon and Israel.

Were it not for Hezbollah, Israel would still be occupying Southern Lebanon today.

Thanks for posting something of substance, Kaliayev. :nice: You're one of the only posters on here whose posts I always read.

However, I don't think that the evidence presented in that article proves that Prouty was a Hezbollah agent. All it proves is that the was born in Lebanon and worked for the FBI. She lived in the US for a long time. She may have looked up information on Hezbollah out of curiosity. That's a much more reasonable explanation in my opinion.

Besides, Hezbollah isn't an enemy of the US. It's an enemy of Israel. Israel isn't one of the fifty states.

Besides, Hezbollah isn't an enemy of the US. It's an enemy of Israel. Israel isn't one of the fifty states.I somehow think the families of the 241 Marines killed in the attack in Beirut, as well as many others would disagree with you.



It's been acknowledged by the Israeli government that the last invasion of Lebanon was planned for many months before the border incident. So what. I'd venture to guess they are drawing up contingency plans for another invasion if hezbollah were to continue firing rockets into Israel. This doesn't absolve hezbollah from it's actions.

I recall (sorry no link) that in the aftermath of the Israeli incursion and subsequent withdrawal from Lebanon there was an on-the-spot report by a BBC reporter who said that opinion he canvassed was simply hatred of the Israelis, support for Hezbollah, who were seen as Freedom Fighters and disdain for the powers in Beirut for failing to protect their subjects.
The BBC report also mentioned the "social program" run by Hezbollah, saying that they had men at bombed sites the day after handing out generous wads of US dollars in compensation.

In other words, Israel, by using the BA method of striking out blindly is strengthening support for what is seen as Lebanese civilians only means of defence.

Besides, Hezbollah isn't an enemy of the US.

Not quite. They were probably, in fact I'm convinced they were, definitely, behind in the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing (220 marines+ some sailors and soldiers all killed, and all never avenged), though the Reagan response was simply to...go home. Most Marines killed since I think Iwo Jima and all we do is pack up and leave. :nonono: I wonder if that makes President Reagan a cheese eating surrender monkey in the eyes of the resident tough talkers?

In any event they're certainly no friends of ours, they've certainly shown that.

It's an enemy of Israel.

That it is. Though Israel can't remove them, Hezbollah can't really do much of anything to Israel beyond above a nuisance level, either. If they came out in the open they'd be slaughtered.

Israel isn't one of the fifty states.

Yeah, but we interjected ourselves there to such an extent, we're going to involved with anything that happens for decades. Barring a Ron Paul presidency.