I was watching a news program last night where they played some of the messages the athiest guy that started this whole thing is getting on his answering machine. People calling him a stupid motherf***er, and they hope he dies. Death threats, curse words, insults, and more. These are the christian people that want to keep our faith in god in the allegiance? I'm sorry, but that makes me sick.

My own experience with the pledge. I went to a (non religious) private school until high school and we never said it in school. Looking back on my experience, I can say I'm glad of that.

People that claim the daughter didn't complain about the words are probably right. I'm almost certain she didn't, because of two reasons. 1) Most kids (I'm thinking grades 1-4 or so) don't have that capacity of thought to think, "I don't believe in god, I don't want to say this." The teacher tells them to say it, so they figure they should. 2) I don't think kids that age really know what they're saying anyway. Maybe on a vague and/or subconscious level, they pick it up, but I think to most kids it's just a bunch of words.

This is why I'm glad I didn't say it. I would have blindly recited those words every day, not really thinking about what I'm saying, but having the meaning sink in anyway. Young kids are extremely impressionable and it seems a little like indoctrination to me. You might say, "hey, it's good indoctrination, teaching them to be faithful to their country and patriotic." I say, there's no such thing as good indoctrination. Period.

I don't hate this country, and I don't want to see it toppled, anything like that, but I like the fact that I was able to mature and decide for myself what I think of it instead of having an idea drilled into my head as a kid.

I'm sure this is not going to be a popular idea for many people on this board. Oh well.

:stupid:

Originally posted by Scott
:stupid:
You know, I don't really understand the i'm with stupid icon. Are you agreeing with me and callig me stupid at the same time? :)

Originally posted by igofast
These are the christian people that want to keep our faith in god in the allegiance? I'm sorry, but that makes me sick.
How do you know this?:confused:

Originally posted by Redfield

How do you know this?:confused:
You're right, it's an assumption. It's possible that they are people that believe in god, but not a christian god. It has been my observation that the people that strongly oppose this whole issue identify as christians, so that's where my assumption comes from, but you're right in pointing it out to me.

I dont care what anyone else says....I like you just fine. :)

Originally posted by igofast
People calling him a stupid motherf***er, and they hope he dies. Death threats, curse words, insults, and more. These are the christian people that want to keep our faith in god in the allegiance? I'm sorry, but that makes me sick.

Do you always allow the most vocal minority to sway your opinions? A few nut-jobs threaten this guy, and you are ready to condemn christianity as a whole. Tell me, do you also condemn Islam because some of it's followers are terrorists?



This is why I'm glad I didn't say it. I would have blindly recited those words every day, not really thinking about what I'm saying, but having the meaning sink in anyway. Young kids are extremely impressionable and it seems a little like indoctrination to me. You might say, "hey, it's good indoctrination, teaching them to be faithful to their country and patriotic." I say, there's no such thing as good indoctrination. Period.

I don't hate this country, and I don't want to see it toppled, anything like that, but I like the fact that I was able to mature and decide for myself what I think of it instead of having an idea drilled into my head as a kid.

I'm sure this is not going to be a popular idea for many people on this board. Oh well.

You've had literally thousands of ideas drilled into your head as a child. Why is this one idea so repugnant to you? If you're an atheist, then 'God' is just a word. It's on many of our public buildings, it's on our money, it's part of our history. I don't see this one word denying anyone their rights, why can't we just leave it alone?

Originally posted by DngrMse
Do you always allow the most vocal minority to sway your opinions? A few nut-jobs threaten this guy, and you are ready to condemn christianity as a whole. Tell me, do you also condemn Islam because some of it's followers are terrorists?
:rolleyes: First, your response is rather patronizing. Second, I don't condemn christianity as a whole. I was a devout christian myself. My ex gf who I'm very close to is a devout christian still. I don't condemn chritianity, I condemn people that are christians that don't f-in act like it.


Originally posted by DngrMse
You've had literally thousands of ideas drilled into your head as a child. Why is this one idea so repugnant to you? If you're an atheist, then 'God' is just a word. It's on many of our public buildings, it's on our money, it's part of our history. I don't see this one word denying anyone their rights, why can't we just leave it alone?
Yes I have had thousands of ideas drilled into my head. But this thread was my thoughts on this one specific example and that's all I wrote about. And if you read my original post, it's not about the term "under god." I said I'm glad I didn't recite any of the pledge. Go ahead and call me unpatriotic or whatever you want for having that thought, I disagree.

Originally posted by Raynewitch
I dont care what anyone else says....I like you just fine. :)
Thanks rayne, the feelings mutual.

Originally posted by igofast

You know, I don't really understand the i'm with stupid icon. Are you agreeing with me and callig me stupid at the same time? :)


a little bit of both..


i'm agreeing with you...


:)....stupid in a positive sence ;)

Originally posted by igofast

:rolleyes: First, your response is rather patronizing. Second, I don't condemn christianity as a whole. I was a devout christian myself. My ex gf who I'm very close to is a devout christian still. I don't condemn chritianity, I condemn people that are christians that don't f-in act like it.

Was'nt trying to be patronizing, it just seemed you were rather jaded with the whole of christianity based on the empty headed actions of a few idiots.



Yes I have had thousands of ideas drilled into my head. But this thread was my thoughts on this one specific example and that's all I wrote about. And if you read my original post, it's not about the term "under god." I said I'm glad I didn't recite any of the pledge. Go ahead and call me unpatriotic or whatever you want for having that thought, I disagree.

Nice thing about this country, you don't have to recite it if you don't want to. I did'nt even know this was an issue....

Originally posted by DngrMse
Nice thing about this country, you don't have to recite it if you don't want to. I did'nt even know this was an issue....
Like I said, I went to a private school so I can't speak from experience, but it's my understanding from what I've been told that kids are told to stand, face the flag, and recite it every day. When you're in grades 1-3, if the teacher tells you to do that, then for all intensive purposes, you HAVE to do that.

Originally posted by igofast

Like I said, I went to a private school so I can't speak from experience, but it's my understanding from what I've been told that kids are told to stand, face the flag, and recite it every day. When you're in grades 1-3, if the teacher tells you to do that, then for all intensive purposes, you HAVE to do that.

Speaking from experience, if the parents of these kids have an issue with it, they can contact the school, and have their kids excused from reciting it.

You said it was'nt just because someone stuck the word 'God' in it, what else about a pledge of allegiance bothers you?

In this land of freedom, one of our rights is the freedom of religion. Of those religions, their Higher Being, Spirit, or God has many different names. To me, the Pledge of Allegiance is an oath that we Americans will uphold our freedoms, ALL of our freedoms. Including the freedom of speech. We all have differing opinions, however in a democracy, the majority will rule.

Well ... ummm here goes ... I agree with Igofast on this one. I actually never said the pleadge after grade 7 b/c I dont agree with "under god". The law states that we have to have at least one min of patriotism every morning to start off the day in public schools ... they can easily sing a song cant they? Umm maybe "star spangled banner"? And if I remember correctly they added that phrase during the Cold War (ADD kicked in forget the actual reason) but the Cold War is over folks and we can DROP it and go back to the original form now