http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/6198/christianbuddhist.html

I believe it may be possible that Christ and Buddha taught the same thing. Basically its about salvation of the soul, love of neighbors and peace to all.

I am aware that a number of faiths, including Gnostics, Manichean, and more modern religions such as Universalist Unitarian and Bahaii faiths revere both Christ and Buddha. Even the Catholic church has acknowledged Buddha as a saint (calling him Josephat.)

What are your thoughts on this?

I would say yes that is possible in the minds of some people but I dont think its possible. How can one truely embrace two religions?

Im leaning towards no in a big way.

I know people who have tried to mix Hinduism and Christianity and well I dont see it working out.

Sometimes the mixes no work out for example Voodoo and Christianity but that occured successfully due to years of assimilation.

Voodoo sprang out as a mix of Christianity and some African religion(s)

Anyway, to accept two religions at once is just to see them as two different angles at which you can see the same spiritual reality. It's not as uncommon as you'd think - faiths can mix in borderline areas, and many Christian missionaries would include the local gods, e.g. as demons, when presenting people with Christianity.

I would say no to this. Buddhism doesn't teach one to worship gods. In some areas Christianity and Buddhism directly contradict each other.

christianity is the acceptance and worship of jesus of nazareth as the promised christ, and as god. the christian message is that the sole means of redemption for a fallen nature is through christ. it's ultimately exclusive. so, no; certainly you can find bits of truth and good sense in many religions, but that doesn't necessarily make them worthy of being adhered to, and certainly not if you claim to accept jesus as god and the saviour of mankind.

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/6198/christianbuddhist.html

I believe it may be possible that Christ and Buddha taught the same thing. Basically its about salvation of the soul, love of neighbors and peace to all.

I am aware that a number of faiths, including Gnostics, Manichean, and more modern religions such as Universalist Unitarian and Bahaii faiths revere both Christ and Buddha. Even the Catholic church has acknowledged Buddha as a saint (calling him Josephat.)

What are your thoughts on this?
No. You can hold the same values as another religion, but you can't be both. I'm pretty sure there are some values in Islam and Christianity that are the same, but that doesn't make a person both a Muslim and Christian.

I understood that Buddhism was a philosophical way of viewing your place in the world, not strictly a "religion".

So I guess one could be a practising Christian who followed Buddhist philosophy...

At least one book has been written stating the similarities of both Christianity and Buddhism--there are a lot. I believe in both but with reservations about both. In a sense all true religions are saying the same thing. A pity that Christians split hairs about things that dont matter and Jesus would probably give them a wake up answer. I believe and disbelieve a lot of things that are in the Bible and what the Church teaches. Buddhism is the most tolerant of other religions and the most tolerant in their own teachings. I believe in both eventhough the Church would not recognise me as a Christian. I dont think you have to follow the teachings of any domination of Christianity to believe that Jesus was a great spiritual leader (whether devine or not).

Voodoo sprang out as a mix of Christianity and some African religion(s)


You are mistaken.

Voodoo is a religion seperate and apart from Christianity. Voodoo is not as a result of a mixture between Christianity and some African religion. Voodoo is the African religion that was practised by Africans for centuries when these Africans were forced to the New World during the trans-atlantic slave trade and acculturation took place and they were forced to embrace Christianity aspects of Christianity got mixed with Voodoo.

In Africa and for most of Haiti the voodoo practised has no Christian influences.

At least one book has been written stating the similarities of both Christianity and Buddhism--there are a lot. I believe in both but with reservations about both. In a sense all true religions are saying the same thing. A pity that Christians split hairs about things that dont matter and Jesus would probably give them a wake up answer. I believe and disbelieve a lot of things that are in the Bible and what the Church teaches. Buddhism is the most tolerant of other religions and the most tolerant in their own teachings. I believe in both eventhough the Church would not recognise me as a Christian. I dont think you have to follow the teachings of any domination of Christianity to believe that Jesus was a great spiritual leader (whether devine or not).

your right. you can believe whatever you like. and maybe there are similarities in certain ways. but if you don't accept jesus' divinity, and accept the need for his sacrifice, then you aren't a christian. if you do accept those things, then it would would be rather silly and pointless to call yourself anything else, at least in regard to religion.

christianity is the acceptance and worship of jesus of nazareth as the promised christ, and as god. the christian message is that the sole means of redemption for a fallen nature is through christ. it's ultimately exclusive. so, no; certainly you can find bits of truth and good sense in many religions, but that doesn't necessarily make them worthy of being adhered to, and certainly not if you claim to accept jesus as god and the saviour of mankind.
Could it be that both Christ and Buddha were incarnations of the same being?

Maybe Christ was sent to the western world and Buddha to the east.

You are mistaken.

Voodoo is a religion seperate and apart from Christianity. Voodoo is not as a result of a mixture between Christianity and some African religion. Voodoo is the African religion that was practised by Africans for centuries when these Africans were forced to the New World during the trans-atlantic slave trade and acculturation took place and they were forced to embrace Christianity aspects of Christianity got mixed with Voodoo.

In Africa and for most of Haiti the voodoo practised has no Christian influences.- "combines theological and magical elements of African religions (http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9354697) and ritual elements of Roman Catholicism (http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9377116). Practitioners profess belief in a supreme God but give more attention to a large number of spirits called the loa, which can be identified as local or African gods, deified ancestors, or Catholic saints."
- http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9382129

Could it be that both Christ and Buddha were incarnations of the same being?

Maybe Christ was sent to the western world and Buddha to the east.

please elaborate on why that would ever have been necessary in this small, small world, especially given the whole of christ's recorded words, taken in context.

In terms of information, the world was a lot bigger back then.

- "combines theological and magical elements of African religions (http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9354697) and ritual elements of Roman Catholicism (http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9377116). Practitioners profess belief in a supreme God but give more attention to a large number of spirits called the loa, which can be identified as local or African gods, deified ancestors, or Catholic saints."
- http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9382129


Somehow I knew that next you would post some link, I am well educated on such topics formally and informally and have tons of books and know people who actually practice these religions. Now what you have posted in my quote more relates to Obeah which is closely related to voodoo.

Like I said you are mistaken and what you are posting is erroneous in regards to Voodoo being bourne out of African religions and Catholicism. Voodoo is its own stand alone religion that the slaves brought with them to the New World when Christianity was forced on them inevitably it was mixed with Voodoo. 99.9% of the Voodoo people in Africa practice voodoo without any Christian influences.

Well, I hope you understand that I'll believe Britannica over a self professed expert on the internet :) But I'll keep that in mind for future occasions.

*rolls eyes* Discussing anything with you I have quickly found out is a grand waste of time. If you would like me to to photograph my library of books for you on the subject I will do so.

Please tell me how then is Voodoo practised by Africans who have new set foot outside of Africa and come from a long line of people who have never travelled to a region which embraces the Roman Catholic faith or have never had aspects of Catholicism taught to them.

Logically if people have never been taught or have had Christianity pushed on them clearly their religion can have no influences from Christianity.

Which brings me back to the FACT that in Africa 99.9% of the people practice Voodoo, Obeah and other religions without any European influences.

Also note that not many people outside of the US and Europe respect Britannica and the internet for providing credible material on topics relating to the trans-atlantic slave trade and the history of several places Africa included. As a matter of fact the professors will tell you dont go to the internet go to the library.

Its amazing how these historians will twist things to make it seem like the whole world especially black civilizations were/are dependent on them and their inventions religiously or otherwise.
lol at them claiming that black people needed their religion and largely mixed their religion with several of their little religions to create an organized religion.

Anyway, I see that true to your screen name you really dont know and you are new to this, im going to leave this topic to you.

Most? Christians have not read the Bible but believe that what's written in it is the inspired word of God--that is blind faith. Just reading/studying the Bible tells you about the spiritual history of Judiaism and Christianity but a lot of it could be totally wrong. A lot of contradictions have been found in the New Testiment, parts were added on and parts taken away. If youre curious there are an awful lot of searching to be done and a lot to be found. But if you are a believer and dont want to search that's good too. Anyway people mostly believe what they were tought to believe.
I think that there is something beyond this physical life but what it is is not known by anyone--we get glimpses or ideas of what might be.
There have been theories that Jesus was the reincarnation of many great people starting with Adam. Early Christians believed in reincarnation as did the Jews. If he comes back again it would be a reincarnation and could be any nationality and of course not looking as he did before.

please elaborate on why that would ever have been necessary in this small, small world, especially given the whole of christ's recorded words, taken in context.
Both Hindus and Jews believe that God talks to people in different ways. Judism teaches that you need not be jewish in able to be saved from damnation, but rather you should obey 7 Noachide laws.

Hinduism teaches that all beings are judged for their lives and that it is not necessarily what one believes which saves you.

Now into both these traditions were two reformers. Both saw a word which priests became corrupt. They saw that the poor were scorned and the wicked prospered. They taught that through self denial and humility one can attain salvation.

It is important too, there was a time lapse between these spiritual leaders. Could it be that both worlds needed a savior at different times? Who knows, maybe the Egyptian Pharo, Akhenaten was witness to the same God.

*rolls eyes* Discussing anything with you I have quickly found out is a grand waste of time. If you would like me to to photograph my library of books for you on the subject I will do so.- Thump your chest all you want - you are still just some guy on the internet, unless you somehow demonstrate differently. So either do so, or post some info from a more credible source.

This is not meant as an insult - it's just the way things are for anyone posting anonymously on the internet.

Please tell me how then is Voodoo practised by Africans who have new set foot outside of Africa and come from a long line of people who have never travelled to a region which embraces the Roman Catholic faith or have never had aspects of Catholicism taught to them.- But is it? Do they practice the exact same thing as someone, say, in New Orleans - and do they call it Voodoo?

Logically if people have never been taught or have had Christianity pushed on them clearly their religion can have no influences from Christianity.- Of course.

Which brings me back to the FACT that in Africa 99.9% of the people practice Voodoo, Obeah and other religions without any European influences.- Now that I see you write FACT in capital letters, your argument is suddenly a lot more convincing :|

Also note that not many people outside of the US and Europe respect Britannica and the internet for providing credible material on topics relating to the trans-atlantic slave trade and the history of several places Africa included. As a matter of fact the professors will tell you dont go to the internet go to the library.- I am aware of that, which is why I chose Britannica, which is one of the oldest (if not the oldest) and most respected paper encyclopedias around. It's not flawless, of course, so I'm not saying I'll take their word as gospel - I'm just more inclined to take their article as a starting point than the word of some random person on the internet - again, no offense.

Early Christians believed in reincarnation as did the Jews.
Do you have any good support for that? :not:

Both Hindus and Jews believe that God talks to people in different ways. Judism teaches that you need not be jewish in able to be saved from damnation, but rather you should obey 7 Noachide laws.

Hinduism teaches that all beings are judged for their lives and that it is not necessarily what one believes which saves you.

Now into both these traditions were two reformers. Both saw a word which priests became corrupt. They saw that the poor were scorned and the wicked prospered. They taught that through self denial and humility one can attain salvation.

It is important too, there was a time lapse between these spiritual leaders. Could it be that both worlds needed a savior at different times? Who knows, maybe the Egyptian Pharo, Akhenaten was witness to the same God.

i assume one of the people you are referring to is jesus. jesus never taught that one could be saved through ANY effort of his own. he taught that salvation came through him. this is a huge point. not only did christ NOT preach any sort of salvation through works, he taught that he was the sole means to it.

Do you have any good support for that? :not:

i too would be interested to see how scripture would be mangled in the process of supporting that idea.

Do you have any good support for that? :not:


Here's one: John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elija.


"and in the great and terrible day of the Lord I will send you Elija"
is from the Old Testament.
"You must be born again of the Spirit and of the Flesh" from the
New Testament.

Jews believed at that time in reincarnation and the first Christians were a continuation of Judiasm although there were many groups who varied somewhat in their beliefs.

No, you didn't answer me.
Where is your support for that claim? Does any reputable biblical historian support that claim of yours?
Using the Bible to support it is pretty useless, as it doesn't say what you read it to say.
"you must be born again" doesn't mean "you have to be reincarnated." I thought everyone knows what "born again" means.


i too would be interested to see how scripture would be mangled in the process of supporting that idea.

Well vindex, there you go. Amazing.

"you must be born again" doesn't mean "you have to be reincarnated." I thought everyone knows what "born again" means.- Everyone knows what the most popular interpretation means - but reincarnation is closer to the litteral meaning, and there are still orthodox jews who believe in it - so it't not an unreasonable interpretation when you think about it :hmm:

http://www.aish.com/literacy/concepts/Reincarnation_and_Jewish_Tradition.asp

- Everyone knows what the most popular interpretation means - but reincarnation is closer to the litteral meaning, and there are still orthodox jews who believe in it - so it't not an unreasonable interpretation when you think about it :hmm:

http://www.aish.com/literacy/concepts/Reincarnation_and_Jewish_Tradition.asp

Thank you I dont know. You do know how to keep an open mind. :nice:

No, you didn't answer me.
Where is your support for that claim? Does any reputable biblical historian support that claim of yours?
Using the Bible to support it is pretty useless, as it doesn't say what you read it to say.
"you must be born again" doesn't mean "you have to be reincarnated." I thought everyone knows what "born again" means.



Well vindex, there you go. Amazing.


Reaper,
Here's something for you to read. I did search through some of the books I have read to see if I could find what I read re: Christians and Reincarnation. No luck but I did have this in my bookmarks. No mangeling involved. There is a lot more to this writing that you can check out on the internet. Just put in reincarnation and the Bible.
:luck:




Scrool
down.



How do you get rid of empty space?







Reincarnation and the Bible


In many documented near-death experiences involving Jesus, the concept of reincarnation appears. In the NDE testimony of Jeanie Dicus, she was asked by Jesus if she would like to reincarnate or return. Sandra Rogers was asked the same question by Jesus during her NDE. One of the reasons many Christians reject the validity of near-death testimony is because they sometimes appear to conflict with their interpretation of Christian doctrines. But Christians are usually very surprised to learn that reincarnation was a doctrine once held by many early Christians. Not only that, as you will soon see there is overwhelming evidence in the Bible of Jesus himself teaching it. More Biblical evidence can be found in Herbert Puryear's outstanding book entitled Why Jesus Taught Reincarnation and Dr. Quincy Howe, Jr.'s excellent book entitled Reincarnation for the Christian.

Many Christians have misconceptions about reincarnation. One particular misconception is that it means people don't inhabit heavenly realms between earth lives. The misconception is that people reincarnate immediately after death. It ignorantly assumes people will never be permanent residents of heavenly realms. But near-death testimony reveals these misconceptions to be just that - misconceptions. People are free to spend an "eternity of eternities" in afterlife realms before reincarnating to earth again. There is freedom of choice. This is because time, as we know it on Earth, does not exist in the afterlife realms as it does here. The ultimate purpose for reincarnation is for us to learn enough lessons and gain enough experience from earth lives that reincarnation is no longer necessary. Like a graduation. Reincarnation is not the goal. Eternal life means never having to die anymore. That is the goal - overcoming death and rebirth. Reincarnation is the method and means to attain this goal. For more information on this visit my research conclusions on reincarnation.

A good understanding of reincarnation begins by understanding the ancient teachings on the subject and comparing them to what we know about NDEs. The following are teachings of the various ancient religions on reincarnation.

Resurrection and the Persian Religion

For thousands of years, Christians believed that when a person dies their soul would sleep in the grave along with their corpse. This soul sleep continues until a time in the future known as the "last day" or also known as the "final judgment." This doctrine concerns a time when Jesus supposedly returns in the sky and clouds with the angels to awakened sleeping souls in the graves. Then all corpses will crawl out of their graves like in the movie "Night of the Living Dead." This doctrine is the orthodox Christian doctrine called "resurrection" and it is the result of a misunderstanding of the higher teachings of Jesus concerning the reincarnation of the spirit into a new body and the real resurrection which is a spiritual rebirth or "awakening" within a person already alive. The orthodox concept of resurrection as the "Night of the Living Dead" is also the result of a great schism which occurred in early Christian history concerning pre-existence and the nature of Jesus. Was he a man who became God? Was he God born as a man? The struggle was between the Church established by Paul in Rome and the remnants of the Jerusalem Church who fled to Egypt after Rome invaded Israel in 70 AD. The Roman faction rejected pre-existence and reincarnation and believed Jesus was God become man. The Jerusalem faction knew Jesus was a man who achieved the human-divine at-one-ment which is the goal of everyone to escape reincarnation cycle of birth and death and have eternal life. But Rome won the political battle and orthodox resurrection became the "Night of the Living Dead."

Many Christians would be surprised to learn that the resurrection of corpses did not originate with Christianity nor with Judaism. It originated with the Zoroastrian religion in ancient Persia (of Magi fame). During the Babylonian exile of the Jews in Old Testament times, the Jews were influenced by Zoroastrian concepts such as the resurrection of corpses, a final day of judgment, the dualism of good versus evil, the hierarchy of angels including fallen angels, and the arch rival of God called Satan. Over time, these Zoroastrian doctrines were incorporated into the religious doctrines of Judaism. From those days forward, a foreign concept of regeneration called "resurrection" competed with the much older concept of reincarnation and the concept of Sheol - concepts that can be found in the Hebrew scriptures.

Reincarnation and the Hebrew Religion

The first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrote about the Pharisees being believers in reincarnation. The Pharisees were the Jewish sect which Paul belonged to before his NDE and conversion to Christianity. Josephus wrote about the Pharisees' belief that the souls of evil men are punished after death. But the souls of good men are "removed into other bodies" and they will have "power to revive and live again."

From time to time throughout Jewish history, there was a persistent belief about dead prophets returning to life through reincarnation. But the Sadducees, a purist sect of Judaism, rejected the Persian concepts of resurrection and all Hellenistic influences involving reincarnation that was happening in Jesus' day. The Sadducees accepted only the orthodox Hebrew belief in Sheol. So there were a variety of influences going on in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus.

When Jesus began his ministry, many people wondered if he was the reincarnation of one of the prophets. Some people wondered the same thing concerning John the Baptist. And even Jesus affirmed to his disciples that John the Baptist was indeed the reincarnation of the prophet Elijah. Throughout his ministry, Jesus taught people about the true resurrection - a spiritual rebirth within a living person. Thus, when Jesus stated that he was the resurrection and the life, he was teaching them a radical new principle. It was a rebirth of the spirit - not into a new body - as when we are born from our mother's womb - but a rebirth of our spirit within the body we now inhabit. Jesus was distinguishing between what was already believed in those days concerning the afterlife and a new teaching concerning a spiritual change within us that can lead to liberation. He was making a distinction between "the resurrection of the body" (returning to life from physical death) and "the resurrection of the spirit" (returning to life from spiritual death). As you will soon see, this confusion concerning Jesus teachings is documented in John 3 when Jesus had to explain to Nicodemus the difference between physical rebirth and spiritual rebirth.

Reincarnation and Early Christianity

The first great Father of the early orthodox Church was Origen (A.D. 185-254) who was the first person since Paul to develop a system of theology around the teachings of Jesus. Origen was an ardent defender of pre-existence and reincarnation. Pre-existence is the religious concept of the soul as not being created at birth; rather the soul existed before birth in heaven or in a past life on earth. Origen taught that pre-existence is found in Hebrew scriptures and the teachings of Jesus.

Origen was a disciple of Clement of Alexandria who was a disciple of the apostle Peter. Clement and Origen wrote about receiving secret teachings of Jesus handed down from the apostles. One of these secret teachings was the concept of physical and spiritual rebirth. The existence of secret teachings and mysteries from Jesus is recorded in the Bible. Here are some of them:

He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance." (Matt. 13:11-12)

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness - the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Col. 1:25-27)

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51)

The doctrines of pre-existence and reincarnation existed as secret teachings of Jesus until they were declared a heresy by the Roman Church in 553 A.D. It was at this time that the Roman Church aggressively destroyed competing teachings and so-called heresies within the Church. Along with the destruction of unorthodox teachings came the destruction of Jews, Gnostics, and ultimately anyone who stood in the way of the Inquisition and Crusades.

But on December, 1945, writings containing many of these secrets of early Christianity were unearthed in upper Egypt. This area was one of the the main locations where Christians fled to when the Romans invaded Israel. It was here that these secrets were continued to be taught. Undisturbed since their concealment almost two thousand years ago, these writings of the secret teachings belonged to a early sect of Christians called Gnostics and these writings ranked in importance with the Dead Sea Scrolls which were discovered two years later. These so-called secret teachings concerning life and death are strikingly similar to what we know about near-death experiences.

Reincarnation and the Secret Teachings of Jesus

In many documented near-death experiences involving Jesus, the concept of reincarnation appears. In the NDE testimony of Jeanie Dicus, she was asked by Jesus if she would like to reincarnate or return. Sandra Rogers was asked the same question by Jesus during her NDE. One of the reasons many Christians reject the validity of near-death testimony is because they sometimes appear to conflict with their interpretation of Christian doctrines. But Christians are usually very surprised to learn that reincarnation was a doctrine once held by many early Christians. Not only that, as you will soon see there is overwhelming evidence in the Bible of Jesus himself teaching it. More Biblical evidence can be found in Herbert Puryear's outstanding book entitled Why Jesus Taught Reincarnation and Dr. Quincy Howe, Jr.'s excellent book entitled Reincarnation for the Christian.

Many Christians have misconceptions about reincarnation. One particular misconception is that it means people don't inhabit heavenly realms between earth lives. The misconception is that people reincarnate immediately after death. It ignorantly assumes people will never be permanent residents of heavenly realms. But near-death testimony reveals these misconceptions to be just that - misconceptions. People are free to spend an "eternity of eternities" in afterlife realms before reincarnating to earth again. There is freedom of choice. This is because time, as we know it on Earth, does not exist in the afterlife realms as it does here. The ultimate purpose for reincarnation is for us to learn enough lessons and gain enough experience from earth lives that reincarnation is no longer necessary. Like a graduation. Reincarnation is not the goal. Eternal life means never having to die anymore. That is the goal - overcoming death and rebirth. Reincarnation is the method and means to attain this goal. For more information on this visit my research conclusions on reincarnation.

A good understanding of reincarnation begins by understanding the ancient teachings on the subject and comparing them to what we know about NDEs. The following are teachings of the various ancient religions on reincarnation.

Resurrection and the Persian Religion

For thousands of years, Christians believed that when a person dies their soul would sleep in the grave along with their corpse. This soul sleep continues until a time in the future known as the "last day" or also known as the "final judgment." This doctrine concerns a time when Jesus supposedly returns in the sky and clouds with the angels to awakened sleeping souls in the graves. Then all corpses will crawl out of their graves like in the movie "Night of the Living Dead." This doctrine is the orthodox Christian doctrine called "resurrection" and it is the result of a misunderstanding of the higher teachings of Jesus concerning the reincarnation of the spirit into a new body and the real resurrection which is a spiritual rebirth or "awakening" within a person already alive. The orthodox concept of resurrection as the "Night of the Living Dead" is also the result of a great schism which occurred in early Christian history concerning pre-existence and the nature of Jesus. Was he a man who became God? Was he God born as a man? The struggle was between the Church established by Paul in Rome and the remnants of the Jerusalem Church who fled to Egypt after Rome invaded Israel in 70 AD. The Roman faction rejected pre-existence and reincarnation and believed Jesus was God become man. The Jerusalem faction knew Jesus was a man who achieved the human-divine at-one-ment which is the goal of everyone to escape reincarnation cycle of birth and death and have eternal life. But Rome won the political battle and orthodox resurrection became the "Night of the Living Dead."

Many Christians would be surprised to learn that the resurrection of corpses did not originate with Christianity nor with Judaism. It originated with the Zoroastrian religion in ancient Persia (of Magi fame). During the Babylonian exile of the Jews in Old Testament times, the Jews were influenced by Zoroastrian concepts such as the resurrection of corpses, a final day of judgment, the dualism of good versus evil, the hierarchy of angels including fallen angels, and the arch rival of God called Satan. Over time, these Zoroastrian doctrines were incorporated into the religious doctrines of Judaism. From those days forward, a foreign concept of regeneration called "resurrection" competed with the much older concept of reincarnation and the concept of Sheol - concepts that can be found in the Hebrew scriptures.

Reincarnation and the Hebrew Religion

The first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrote about the Pharisees being believers in reincarnation. The Pharisees were the Jewish sect which Paul belonged to before his NDE and conversion to Christianity. Josephus wrote about the Pharisees' belief that the souls of evil men are punished after death. But the souls of good men are "removed into other bodies" and they will have "power to revive and live again."

From time to time throughout Jewish history, there was a persistent belief about dead prophets returning to life through reincarnation. But the Sadducees, a purist sect of Judaism, rejected the Persian concepts of resurrection and all Hellenistic influences involving reincarnation that was happening in Jesus' day. The Sadducees accepted only the orthodox Hebrew belief in Sheol. So there were a variety of influences going on in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus.

When Jesus began his ministry, many people wondered if he was the reincarnation of one of the prophets. Some people wondered the same thing concerning John the Baptist. And even Jesus affirmed to his disciples that John the Baptist was indeed the reincarnation of the prophet Elijah. Throughout his ministry, Jesus taught people about the true resurrection - a spiritual rebirth within a living person. Thus, when Jesus stated that he was the resurrection and the life, he was teaching them a radical new principle. It was a rebirth of the spirit - not into a new body - as when we are born from our mother's womb - but a rebirth of our spirit within the body we now inhabit. Jesus was distinguishing between what was already believed in those days concerning the afterlife and a new teaching concerning a spiritual change within us that can lead to liberation. He was making a distinction between "the resurrection of the body" (returning to life from physical death) and "the resurrection of the spirit" (returning to life from spiritual death). As you will soon see, this confusion concerning Jesus teachings is documented in John 3 when Jesus had to explain to Nicodemus the difference between physical rebirth and spiritual rebirth.

Reincarnation and Early Christianity

The first great Father of the early orthodox Church was Origen (A.D. 185-254) who was the first person since Paul to develop a system of theology around the teachings of Jesus. Origen was an ardent defender of pre-existence and reincarnation. Pre-existence is the religious concept of the soul as not being created at birth; rather the soul existed before birth in heaven or in a past life on earth. Origen taught that pre-existence is found in Hebrew scriptures and the teachings of Jesus.

Origen was a disciple of Clement of Alexandria who was a disciple of the apostle Peter. Clement and Origen wrote about receiving secret teachings of Jesus handed down from the apostles. One of these secret teachings was the concept of physical and spiritual rebirth. The existence of secret teachings and mysteries from Jesus is recorded in the Bible. Here are some of them:

He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance." (Matt. 13:11-12)

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness - the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Col. 1:25-27)

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51)

The doctrines of pre-existence and reincarnation existed as secret teachings of Jesus until they were declared a heresy by the Roman Church in 553 A.D. It was at this time that the Roman Church aggressively destroyed competing teachings and so-called heresies within the Church. Along with the destruction of unorthodox teachings came the destruction of Jews, Gnostics, and ultimately anyone who stood in the way of the Inquisition and Crusades.

But on December, 1945, writings containing many of these secrets of early Christianity were unearthed in upper Egypt. This area was one of the the main locations where Christians fled to when the Romans invaded Israel. It was here that these secrets were continued to be taught. Undisturbed since their concealment almost two thousand years ago, these writings of the secret teachings belonged to a early sect of Christians called Gnostics and these writings ranked in importance with the Dead Sea Scrolls which were discovered two years later. These so-called secret teachings concerning life and death are strikingly similar to what we know about near-death experiences.

Reincarnation and the Secret Teachings of Jesus
Interesting stuff.
Origen was a Gnostic theologian whose teachings were widely accepted in the early church. It is noteworthy that during the council of Nicea, the chruch fathers, by only one vote rejected reincarnation of souls.

Criminal,
It's strange how Christians never believe me when I tell them about the above.