Couple stand by forbidden love
By Tristana Moore
BBC News, Berlin

At their home in Leipzig, Patrick Stuebing and Susan Karolewski are in the kitchen, playing with a young toddler.

They share a small flat in an east German tower block on the outskirts of the city. It looks like an ordinary family scene, but Patrick is Susan's brother and they are lovers.

"Many people see it as a crime, but we've done nothing wrong," said Patrick, an unemployed locksmith.

"We are like normal lovers. We want to have a family. Our whole family broke apart when we were younger, and after that happened, Susan and I were brought closer together," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6424937.stm

Gay marriage was just the tip of the ice burg folks.

If you think sibling coupling has never happened before, you should delve into some history books.

Gay marriage was just the tip of the ice burg folks.

Hey, gay marriage is a left-wing thing. Marrying sisters and cousins is a right-wing thing. Keep your wings straight.

Pharoah's married sisters way back in the day. That was weird then and it's weird now. (Incest has always been taboo... not homosexuality. Pharoahs can get away with it cuz they were living gods or whatever so basic rules of genetics didnt appy to them.)

if they are happy, who cares?

if they are happy, who cares?

Everyone in the world with a brain?

Everyone in the world with a brain?

What are they doing that can possibly affect you in a negative way?

What are they doing that can possibly affect you in a negative way?

They can easily have genetically-defective children that society will have to pay to provide for to some degree.

They can easily have genetically-defective children that society will have to pay to provide for to some degree.

So could cousins who marry legally, and people not even related to each other. Should we prevent women in their forties from having babies because they pose a higher risk for having babies with genetic disorders?
It's not as if men will go out and impregnate their sisters in great numbers if these two are allowed to keep their children. Incest isn't communicable. it's not pretty, but it does happen.

What are they doing that can possibly affect you in a negative way?

Associated social costs. This kind of behavior must be shunned and stigmatized such that it will not become acceptable and grow damaging even more the moral base our society sits upon. If that becomes decayed and eroded it can lead to serious repercussions. Ever read any books on the fall of Rome?

Associated social costs. This kind of behavior must be shunned and stigmatized such that it will not become acceptable and grow damaging more the moral base our society sits upon. If that becomes decayed and eroded it can lead to serious repercussions. Ever read any books on the fall of Rome?
You'll have to explain how these two people are going to single handedly bring down the wrath of God.

You'll have to explain how these two people are going to single handedly bring down the wrath of God.

I just did. If perversity is not shunned and stigmatized it encourages more perversity. Perversity threatens culture. Just look at the USA- we've stopped stigmatizing pre-marital teen pregnancy and it has grown and grown. The number one predictor of poverty in America is being part of a single parent family.

I just did. If perversity is not shunned and stigmatized it encourages more perversity. Perversity threatens culture. Just look at the USA- we've stopped stigmatizing pre-marital teen pregnancy and it has grown and grown. The number one predictor of poverty in America is being part of a single parent family.

Gee, and they are trying to raise children in a two parent environment and they get shunned for it.


Perversity, by the way, is relative. No matter what you do, someone will object to it.

And you still haven't explained how this couple's actions affects you personally. Unless you are someone who wants to marry a sibling, what effect does it have on you? And I don't mean your irrational perceived threat of mass incestuous couplings, because trying to imply this is the beginning of a plague is rather ridiculous and paranoid.

If perversity is not shunned and stigmatized it encourages more perversity. Perversity threatens culture. Just look at the USA- we've stopped stigmatizing pre-marital teen pregnancy and it has grown and grown. The number one predictor of poverty in America is being part of a single parent family.

Your brand of morality (Very similar to the Taliban's) is a bigger threat to our culture than some weirdo with the hots for his sister.

Hey, gay marriage is a left-wing thing. Marrying sisters and cousins is a right-wing thing. Keep your wings straight.


LOL, perverted wingnuts . poor kids !

Your brand of morality (Very similar to the Taliban's) is a bigger threat to our culture than some weirdo with the hots for his sister.


Wrong ! lack of people like this is what has destroyed this paper tiger nation . :D

Gee, and they are trying to raise children in a two parent environment and they get shunned for it.


Perversity, by the way, is relative. No matter what you do, someone will object to it.

And you still haven't explained how this couple's actions affects you personally. Unless you are someone who wants to marry a sibling, what effect does it have on you? And I don't mean your irrational perceived threat of mass incestuous couplings, because trying to imply this is the beginning of a plague is rather ridiculous and paranoid.


The fruits and nuts in this nation is worse than any plaque ever was , What the hell do you call Aids ? And all the other deseases . Is there anything that is taboo to you ?

The fruits and nuts in this nation is worse than any plaque ever was , What the hell do you call Aids ? And all the other deseases . Is there anything that is taboo to you ?

I can look down my street and see much worse than a brother and sister trying to raise a family together. It's not people with love for each other that scare me, it's the unwarranted hate and intolerance.

Associated social costs. So all of a sudden you're concerned about social costs? How do you feel about regulating smoking, drinking, and fast food, then? How about environmental regulation, since we all bear the costs of pollution? Are you a fan of Sarbanes-Oxley?

I call BS. This sudden concern about "social costs" is no more than an excuse to repeat the old slippery-slope arguments against gay marriage and bash liberals in general. Lame.

So all of a sudden you're concerned about social costs? How do you feel about regulating smoking, drinking, and fast food, then? How about environmental regulation, since we all bear the costs of pollution? Are you a fan of Sarbanes-Oxley?

I call BS. This sudden concern about "social costs" is no more than an excuse to repeat the old slippery-slope arguments against gay marriage and bash liberals in general. Lame.



It is really hard to argue with this kind of logic , but since i have nothing better to do at themoment.....I don't think fat people lobby for mcD's or fartin cows can help it so I forgive them for all the toxic gases they put into the environment . But just think what kind of 'green 'house we'd have if we still all rode around in horse and buggys like those poor Father Johns up north . :eek7: . Of course our kids would be healthy, pushing plows, milking cows, hauling hay . The only thing kids work now is their bossy mouth and their fingers on electronics . Bless there poor little barbed out heart's . over $2 billion dollars a year is paid to the legal drug pushers to keep litle Dick and Janes mouth shut . Given to kids from kids 5 to 19 who have several liberal emotional disorder . I don't think theres a such thing as 85 MILLION kids with these AHDH or ADD or any other illness that pills can cure or help . Of course kid has a short attention span, fool, it's a kid !! So they don't like to sit still in school, of course not there kids who need to have some physical freakin ed put back in school . I just read about these damn drugs again today . What a horrible abuse these kids go through now a days . :mad:

I just did. If perversity is not shunned and stigmatized it encourages more perversity. Perversity threatens culture. Just look at the USA- we've stopped stigmatizing pre-marital teen pregnancy and it has grown and grown. The number one predictor of poverty in America is being part of a single parent family.Teen pregnancy is not "growing and growing".

Since 1991, U.S. teenage pregnancy, abortion, and birth rates have declined steadily in every age and racial/ethnic group. (http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/PUBLICATIONS/factsheet/fsprechd.htm#references)

For more than 15 years the numbers have been dropping, and I'd say we are at least as permissive and accepting (if not more) as a culture than we were in 1991. What gives?

:confused:

In regards to the brother and sister... let 'em do what they want to do. I think it's terribly selfish if they decide to have children due to the increased chance of the child being saddled with negative recessive traits... but hey, I probably won't have any kids until I'm at least 40 (well into the age of regularly spitting out ****ed-up offspring), so who am I to talk?

Teen pregnancy is not "growing and growing".

Since 1991, U.S. teenage pregnancy, abortion, and birth rates have declined steadily in every age and racial/ethnic group. (http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/PUBLICATIONS/factsheet/fsprechd.htm#references)

For more than 15 years the numbers have been dropping, and I'd say we are at least as permissive and accepting (if not more) as a culture than we were in 1991. What gives?

:confused:

In regards to the brother and sister... let 'em do what they want to do. I think it's terribly selfish if they decide to have children due to the increased chance of the child being saddled with negative recessive traits... but hey, I probably won't have any kids until I'm at least 40 (well into the age of regularly spitting out ****ed-up offspring), so who am I to talk?

Despite the age statistics ( a twenty year old isn't a teen, unless they get shot, and are used in gun statistics regarding "children" being shot), and although teen pregnancy may be down, illegitimacy is sky high, especially in the black community, and growing in all categories.


Again, this is leading to millions of kids being raised by one parent, which actually is the number one cause of poverty in the US. So, even if it doesn't happen in high school as frequently, it's still happening, despite proponents of safe sex and their condom giveaway programs.

Condoning anything inevitably leads to more of the activity.

50 years ago, we had 2 STD's to worry about in the US, now, there are 25 categories with numerous subcategories. That's a frightening state of affairs for young people. The HPV virus alone has already killed more women through cervical cancer than AIDS ever has, or probably ever will, and many times there are no symptoms until it's too late. It's also possible to pick it up through skin to skin contact, so now, sex is no longer required to get and STD. The number of people who are oblivious to this fact is astounding, and teaching kids that a layer of latex is real protection is a diservice.

The free love mentality was all the rage at one time, but now the consequences have shown up in a big way, and they aren't pretty.

As for this dude and his sister having a kid, it's none of my business, and I have no clue what the legalities are in whatever state they reside in, but I wouldn't ever condone my own kids doing it. It's just unnatural, and if my son tried to bang his sister, I would have no choice but to administer a serious beating for even considering such a thing (now no one get all upset; I don't beat my kids, but i may consider it in a serious case such as I mentioned).

With all of the potential mates out there, why fool around with siblings??? Of course, historically, it's happened thousands and thousands of times. Caligulas' affair with his sister was well known (as well as his do it yourself abortion that he performed on her).

Lots of blue bloods are inbred among cousins and the like (and we're supposed to look up to these spoiled rotten brats as they look down at us). One look at price Charles ius enough to convince abyone that inbreeding isn't advisable. That dude could eat an apple through a fence.

I do hope that the kid is okay. He most likely is, because genetic abnormalities as a result of inbreeding are greatly exaggerated, but they are also more possible within similiar bloodlines.