so? :shrug: I keep hearing all this "I would never..." business when some people talk about voting for her, but i can't seem to find any concrete reasons why she's such a bad person. I WANT SOURCES, NO HERESAY.

Here, I'll start:
Like Karl Rove, she was president of the college republicans during her undergrad years. http://www.hillary-rodham-clinton.org/education.html
See, that wasn't so hard right?

She's married to Bill, she's a woman and worst of all she's too damn intelligent.

0 for 3.

I think she is a very good person and would be an excelent president.

I wonder if Vince Foster thought she was a good person? Oh wait he's dead.

I wonder if Vince Foster thought she was a good person? Oh wait he's dead.

You forgot to dig up Whitewater. That cost millions of dollars to investigate and was a total busted flush.

There's no proof to those allegations. It's all conspiracies.

You forgot to dig up Whitewater. That cost millions of dollars to investigate and was a total busted flush.

I prefer to dig up Vince and determine if he was shot prior to being propped up in that park.

There's no proof to those allegations. It's all conspiracies.

Perhaps, but if you want a self-serving, power hungry bitch in the White House then I guess you'll be voting for Hill and first man Bill.

Obscenities don't solve anything.

Obscenities don't solve anything.

Bitch doesn't fit the definition in this context. Perhaps witch?

I think she is a very good person and would be an excelent president.

Haddaway, you seem to be a good person, so I hope you don't take offense to this.... but Hillary is NOT a 'good person.' She is dishonest, she puts on a false front, she continually lies for her husband and stays in a 'marriage' that is a joke, just for the sake of her own political ambitions and future career. (I guess it's easier to get elected if you're married?) but what's worse is she not only lies but always tries to pin the blame on other people for the things THEY do, and their favorite teflon slippery way out of everything is (which has worked well for them) their line that it's all a "vast right wing conspiracy."

I think both her and her husband are extremely duplicitous and really don't care about the US, the constitution, bill of rights, or other things that a true leader of this country should care about. They have their own political motives and philosophies that personally I believe are subversive, and very bad news for all of us.

I think they aren't open about their true political beliefs because they know that if they were, they wouldn't have a snowballs chance of getting elected, so they put themselves out there as moderate Democrats, that "feel your pain."

Also, it is a fact that Arkansas was (and probably still is) fully corrupt, the government at the time clinton was in power was more corrupt than most people realize, and whether one wants to believe there is any connection at all, (that's up to them) it is a fact that they have a long list of dead colleagues, associates, or people who had dirt on them, who are now dead, due to things like gunshot wounds to the back of the head called "suicides" (Arkancides is what they really are) accidents, murders, etc. No, I'm not saying the clintons are guilty of those. But I am saying it is a fact there is a list of dead bodies, most of them having to do with a particular scandal the clintons were at the top of, (which they always conveniently got away with) or people who had worked with them, etc. They are both very, very, very bad, rotten people, who should be nowhere near the White House.

You can't follow Clintons political trail in Arkansas without running into a lot of dead bodies. Coincidence? Maybe.

She's married to Bill, she's a woman and worst of all she's too damn intelligent.

0 for 3.

:rolleyes: Not the reasons at all that I (or most people) dislike her. Well, staying in a false marriage, is one thing (but just a tiny drop in the bucket) but definitely nowhere near one of the worst things about her.

I see what you're saying. I see how you could find this information to be true. It's just I see her to be honest and I can't remember a time where she was caught doing something she wasn't supposed to do.

I can say is that she didn't take stand against the Iraq War and other issues. She just stood there and watched.

Like lily said, anyone so obsessed with power that she is willing to stay with her husband while he services every broad on Pennsylvania Avenue is a pretty lousy individual and not worthy of any respect whatsoever.

(Hillary)'s married to Bill, she's a woman and worst of all she's too damn intelligent.

0 for 3.

People don't like Condi Rice because she's black, she's a woman, and worst of all she's too damn intelligent.

0 for 3.

Well... that made as much sense as what you wrote.

This seems like more than enough reason to never vote for Hillary.

During the summer of 1971, Mrs. Clinton writes in her book, she was a law clerk at the Oakland firm of Treuhaft, Walker and Burnstein. “I spent most of my time working for Mal Burnstein researching, writing legal motions and briefs for a child custody case,” she said. In fact, however, the public record shows that Clinton worked for Robert Treuhaft, a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) and Harvard-trained lawyer for the party.
http://www.aim.org/publications/aim_report/2003/15.html

There's no proof to those allegations. It's all conspiracies.

Yeah, because we know that people never get away with crimes. Read these (http://geocities.com/incindiary1999/foster.html) over 100 things about his death.

Too bad the supreme court wouldn't let us look at those crime scene photos. Funny how that works.

• I have met thousands and thousands of pro-choice men and women. I have never met anyone who is pro-abortion. Being pro-choice is not being pro-abortion. Being pro-choice is trusting the individual to make the right decision for herself and her family, and not entrusting that decision to anyone wearing the authority of government in any regard.

yet she believes it takes a village to raise a child, yours presumably. for someone that is so devoted to individual rights, her personal quotes and voting record indicate that the only individual rights she cares very much about are a woman's right to have an abortion, and the right for an illegal alien to suck the life out of our nation's resources with impunity. her stances on free speech and the right to bear arms are frequently unconstitutional, and she can best be described as a global socialist at heart, which by definition, leaves very little room for many individual liberties we would all probably claim to value.

“The American people are tired of liars and people who pretend to be something they're not.”

one need only to briefly examine hillary's stance and voting on a few major issues...the war for one...to see the bitter irony in this statement. in her quest for office and influence, and in her determined effort to appear moderate, she has flip-flopped like no other...except for john mccain maybe. even saturday night live, a show whose agenda has especially of late been irritatingly neo-liberal, did a nice hit-piece on hillary, specifically addressing her widely-accepted lack of sincerity.

“I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers We are the president.”

if she suffered from such a lack of understanding of her role when her husband was president, just how much license should we suppose she would take if in the office of president. if hillary was elected, i would wager that her expansion of executive power and privilege would make GW's look like child's play.

“We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society.”

please referrence previous comment in regard to individual rights. it's not that it's wrong to consider what's best for society, it's that it can never be done to the detriment of individual rights, and that is precisely what this woman advocates.

Eleanor Roosevelt understood that every one of us every day has choices to make about the kind of person we are and what we wish to become. You can decide to be someone who brings people together, or you can fall prey to those who wish to divide us. You can be someone who educates yourself, or you can believe that being negative is clever and being cynical is fashionable. You have a choice.

then this

"I have to confess that it's crossed my mind that you could not be a Republican and a Christian."

most politicians are foul hypocrites, but this woman has redefined speaking out of both sides of her mouth at the same time. i am an american. i am not interested in being a european or a south or central american, or a canadian. hillary's global agenda is thoroughly un-american, and she will do damage to this country that has not yet been fathomed if she is voted into this office.

Funny how they found the Rose Law Firm billing records in the White house two years after Hiltery claimed....under oath.....not to know where they were.........


wonder how many old people had their life savings stolen by Hiltery and her partners?

Still waiting for someone to fulfill stones (best avatar ever) request for actual links and actual, true, logical explanations as to why she is the spawn of satan, and not simply your normal hypocrital politician.

She isn't the only wife who's stayed with her cheating husband, and none of you know the true reasons why she's stayed with him. It might be for political advancement (thought I can hardly imagine how it would be an advantage at this point), it might be because she forgave him and really loves him. None of you know for sure.

So, let's hear some reasons why she is the antichrist you make her out to be. He's requested specifically NO HERESAY, what do you do? Post conspiracy theories. Way to follow directions people.

I heard she once ate a school bus full of children and turned their bones into pixie sticks but I would have to double check my sources on that one.

You forgot to dig up Whitewater. That cost millions of dollars to investigate and was a total busted flush.


No it wasn't. There were 12 total convictions as a result of that investigation.

The people involved were using a savings and loan company as their private piggy bank and stole over 65 million dollars before they were through.

They deserved to be convicted, and those who were jailed deserved it as well. It wasn't their money to steal, or to set up deceptive land deals with.

Ross perot predicted a scandal a week if the Clinton's won the white House. He wasn't too far off in his estimate.

The problem is, they have no real core values that go beyond their lust for power. Hillary is focus group and poll oriented, and will paint herself in accord with what her pollsters say that people want her to be. that's not leadership. It's the exact opposite of leadership, because she follows what the numbers dictate, as did her husband while in office.

We don't need anymore pop icons in office, but infortunately, our media driven public has some strange attraction to those type of people. It's pretty sad IMO.

Still waiting for someone to fulfill stones (best avatar ever) request for actual links and actual, true, logical explanations as to why she is the spawn of satan, and not simply your normal hypocrital politician.

She isn't the only wife who's stayed with her cheating husband, and none of you know the true reasons why she's stayed with him. It might be for political advancement (thought I can hardly imagine how it would be an advantage at this point), it might be because she forgave him and really loves him. None of you know for sure.

So, let's hear some reasons why she is the antichrist you make her out to be. He's requested specifically NO HERESAY, what do you do? Post conspiracy theories. Way to follow directions people.
:nice: It's amazing how quickly a thread goes astray isn't it?

We've got a couple sources so far, but those sources seem to get their information from heresay and obscure authors whose books sell for $0.01 used on amazon.com, who themselves seem to have heard rumors...(http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Pay-Unfolding-Hillary-Clinton/dp/0895262746)

And don't forget to include GOOD SOURCES FOR YOUR HILLARY FACTS :bang:

:nice: It's amazing how quickly a thread goes astray isn't it?

what makes you think the thread went astray? they are still talking about hillary. I don't see a problem.

what makes you think the thread went astray? they are still talking about hillary. I don't see a problem.
Some are not talking about hillary in a factual, or at least systematic, manner. Few posts refered to a source and many people decided to post heresay.

It was not my intent to collect ramblings but to see some evidence to back up the ramblings i have heard... and still to no avail. I'll submit that they're at least talking about hillary, but not in the spirit of the creation of the thread. Krikie, i even used bold faced type! I should have increased the font size too but i didnt want to be annoying about it.

Some are not talking about hillary in a factual, or at least systematic, manner. Few posts refered to a source and many people decided to post heresay.

It was not my intent to collect ramblings but to see some evidence to back up the ramblings i have heard... and still to no avail. I'll submit that they're at least talking about hillary, but not in the spirit of the creation of the thread. Krikie, i even used bold faced type! I should have increased the font size too but i didnt want to be annoying about it.

true dat. it is indeed your thread. that gives you the right to dictate when it is and is not on topic. good answer. :nice:

so? :shrug: I keep hearing all this "I would never..." business when some people talk about voting for her, but i can't seem to find any concrete reasons why she's such a bad person. I WANT SOURCES, NO HERESAY.

Here, I'll start:
Like Karl Rove, she was president of the college republicans during her undergrad years. http://www.hillary-rodham-clinton.org/education.html
See, that wasn't so hard right?
I cannot stand her because she is just like her old man.

She is a right winger disguising herself as a progressive.

If you dig Janet Reno, the Death Penalty, the military attack on Waco, attacks on individual liberty, empty promises to reform health care, more repressive laws and no real reform that Hillary is for you.:P

If she runs I will probibly vote for Nader.

People don't like Condi Rice because she's black, she's a woman, and worst of all she's too damn intelligent.
0 for 3.
Well... that made as much sense as what you wrote.

CCC, I was trying to play Devil's Advocate, the Hillary Haters try and make it about policy, or Iraq or her supposed "socialist" agenda, but the three reasons I quoted (IMO) are what's really behind their attacks.
As for the "staying in a false marriage" why is SHE picked out for this? Male members of Congress are notorious for extramarital dalliances, often having a permanent mistress tucked away on the Beltway whilst the wife back in the home State plays at supportive spouse.

No it wasn't. There were 12 total convictions as a result of that investigation.
The people involved were using a savings and loan company as their private piggy bank and stole over 65 million dollars before they were through.
They deserved to be convicted, and those who were jailed deserved it as well. It wasn't their money to steal, or to set up deceptive land deals with.

Yes, and the Clintons were involved through a third party that advised them to get into the deal, they made nothing out of it and faced no criminal charges - that's the point

Hillary is focus group and poll oriented, and will paint herself in accord with what her pollsters say that people want her to be. that's not leadership. It's the exact opposite of leadership, because she follows what the numbers dictate, as did her husband while in office.

You mean "she's a professional politician" your paragraph above, substituting "Bush" for "Hillary" and "Karl Rove" for "pollsters" would apply equally


.....

People don't like Condi Rice because she's black, she's a woman, and worst of all she's too damn intelligent.

0 for 3.

Well... that made as much sense as what you wrote.


Who would that be??? The klan??

People hate Rice because she's 1. A warmonger 2. A war criminal 3. An incompetent moron who makes the most retarded people look like Stephen Hawking 4. She's a pathological liar 5. She has the blood of hundreds of thousands on her lying hands just like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, neo-cons, etc.

Using someone's race as an excuse to deflect criticism from their crimes is a disgusting tactic.

Next time people start railing about OJ Simpson maybe I'll smear you all as racists..:rolleyes:

Did you not read the last thing he said?

CCC: "Well... that made as much sense as what you wrote."

He was trying to make a point, that those aren't the reasons why people dislike either of them. Don't jump to assumptions so quickly!

CCC, I was trying to play Devil's Advocate, the Hillary Haters try and make it about policy, or Iraq or her supposed "socialist" agenda, but the three reasons I quoted (IMO) are what's really behind their attacks.

Big fat steaming load of bullcrap. People dislike her because she's corrupt, dishonest, traitorous, and because when we had a clinton in the Whitehouse, we had a scandal a week, (sometimes more than one a week), for 8 crimefilled years... we don't want more of that, people want someone new, get the old rotten corrupt politicians out, and get someone new in.

Did you not read the last thing he said?

CCC: "Well... that made as much sense as what you wrote."

He was trying to make a point, that those aren't the reasons why people dislike either of them. Don't jump to assumptions so quickly!


People say that about her all the time though, she's hated due to her skin color, she's a woman, and she's smart.

If he was being sarcastic than I have to agree with him, she's evil regardless of what her skin color is, she's not very lady-like, and she's not too bright!..:nice:

I feel pretty much the same way about Hillary, I just don't see her "as" evil due to the fact that she hasn't been instrumental in starting any illegal resource wars as far as I know.:eek7:


What pisses me off is that we're a long way from the 08 election yet it's already decided who has even a remote chance of being the next president. I guarantee they are all filthy rich, free traders, in bed with corporations working to screw us all, "Christians", and none of them will do a thing to reverse the course to tyranny this nation is speeding full steam ahead to. And people will again say what a great representation the next election is of our "Democracy"...:nonono:

Big fat steaming load of bullcrap. People dislike her because she's corrupt, dishonest, traitorous, and because when we had a clinton in the Whitehouse, we had a scandal a week, (sometimes more than one a week), for 8 crimefilled years...


You're spicing it up but I generally agree with you, she wasn't president, remember? I don't see anybody blaming Laura for Bush's crimes against America.


we don't want more of that, people want someone new, get the old rotten corrupt politicians out, and get someone new in.


Hahahahahahahaha!!!!

Sorry... I just couldn't help myself..

Maybe you don't want corrupt scumbag politicians, but you know sure as hell that that's not true for a good chunk of the population. I heard right wingers saying the same exact things in 1999-2000, and what did they do? They voted for some of the most vile, corrupt, dangerous gangsters to EVER take control of this country, even after being repeatedly warned NOT to vote for the scumbags.

Do you really think people buy into this? C'mon, you know half the nation only wants to see another corporate anti-liberal Republican elected president along with the same in the other branches of government. Then they'll go silent again as they lose more freedoms, get robbed blind, and see their nation look more like Mexico everyday (not due to Mexicans, but to being rich/poor).

What pisses me off is that we're a long way from the 08 election yet it's already decided who has even a remote chance of being the next president. I guarantee they are all filthy rich, free traders, in bed with corporations working to screw us all, "Christians", and none of them will do a thing to reverse the course to tyranny this nation is speeding full steam ahead to. And people will again say what a great representation the next election is of our "Democracy"...:nonono:

Yeah, I've almost given up hope on ever getting a decent candidate who is not sold out or part of the usual gang... it seems almost hopeless, at that level anyway. :hmm:

Yeah, I've almost given up hope on ever getting a decent candidate who is not sold out or part of the usual gang... it seems almost hopeless, at that level anyway. :hmm:


And it's incredible how many new laws that have been passed over the last 5-10 years that will effect us until we can nullify them and bring our Constitution back from the sewer under Capitol hill where it currently resides. Most of the really bad ones people don't even know about until much later, and then it's too late. A couple lobbyists pretending to be representatives of the people passed a law that is a direct blow to some of our most basic freedoms last month and I bet 99% of the population doesn't even know about it.

What are any of the candidates going to do about these things? The handful of decent politicians in DC are "un-electable". Why don't people ask just what in the hell that means? Who comes up with that crap? Why do we let the media destroy any chance those people might have had? Is it because the powers that be won't let a good person have a shot? And what does it say about the "state of the union" that the only people with a chance of becoming president are some of the worst scum amongst the 300 million Americans? And why we let it happen... This is one of reasons I don't buy into this garbage that is always paraded around about how we are such a "great" nation, if we truly were, this kind of crap wouldn't be happening. Most people, sadly, are probably more concerned with who will be the next "American Idol". I think what happened to the Soviet Union is in store for us, I don't see how it's not..

What pisses me off is that we're a long way from the 08 election yet it's already decided who has even a remote chance of being the next president. I guarantee they are all filthy rich, free traders, in bed with corporations working to screw us all, "Christians", and none of them will do a thing to reverse the course to tyranny this nation is speeding full steam ahead to. And people will again say what a great representation the next election is of our "Democracy"...:nonono:

i'll have to agree with every word of that. nobody that actually respects the constitution and has the best interest of the american people in mind will get anywhere in a presidential election. strangely enough, everybody that even has a shot at a party nomination seems to be cut from the same fabric, no matter their party affiliation.....consolidation of power in the ruling class, diminishing individual rights, rampant corruption, and some variety of a global agenda that sells short the average joe.

can anyone remember the last time a party nominee could have been called relatively untainted, honest and sincere?

Did you not read the last thing he said?

CCC: "Well... that made as much sense as what you wrote."

He was trying to make a point, that those aren't the reasons why people dislike either of them. Don't jump to assumptions so quickly!

Big fat steaming load of bullcrap. People dislike her because she's corrupt, dishonest, traitorous, and because when we had a clinton in the Whitehouse, we had a scandal a week, (sometimes more than one a week), for 8 crimefilled years... we don't want more of that, people want someone new, get the old rotten corrupt politicians out, and get someone new in.

Lily gets it. :nice:
Zipper99, it has absolutely nothing to do with her gender or her alleged intelligence, which is an oft-repeated lie by Hillary supporters since she came on the national scene. I pointed out an analogy and it went right over your head, probably because of some built-in prejudice of blind partisanship.

If he was being sarcastic than I have to agree with him, she's evil regardless of what her skin color is, she's not very lady-like, and she's not too bright!..:nice:

Yes, I was sarcastic. I only used Condi to make a point about Hillary and alleged biases against her because of gender.

What are any of the candidates going to do about these things? The handful of decent politicians in DC are "un-electable". Why don't people ask just what in the hell that means? Who comes up with that crap? Why do we let the media destroy any chance those people might have had? Is it because the powers that be won't let a good person have a shot? And what does it say about the "state of the union" that the only people with a chance of becoming president are some of the worst scum amongst the 300 million Americans? And why we let it happen... This is one of reasons I don't buy into this garbage that is always paraded around about how we are such a "great" nation, if we truly were, this kind of crap wouldn't be happening. Most people, sadly, are probably more concerned with who will be the next "American Idol". I think what happened to the Soviet Union is in store for us, I don't see how it's not..

I am in total agreement with CA here. Somebody pinch me. :)

Tons of great posts guys. The left and the right of this country can unite on this one issue of federal power and choice, skillfully outlined by CA here on page 2...

...but what's so bad about Hillary anyway?